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 Posted:   Sep 28, 2013 - 9:31 PM   
 By:   Ron Hardcastle   (Member)

solium:

Re: "Whats the consensus on Bose? Supposedly it gives you high end quality sound in a small wireless package?"

Are you talking about, say, the Bose SoundDock Series of compact speakers that have an iPod dock in the middle? Or are you talking about Bose headphones? The fellow I bought the 160GB iPod for (and filled with 18,000 glorious tracks of music), I also had a set of the Bose SoundDock Series II speaker system shipped to him, and he says that they sound great at both low volume as well as when blasting. This was a very knowledgeable music lover who has never owned a computer or iPod or much else like that, so he's been quite engaged the past 2 weeks with all that music and fairly nice sounding (but certainly small in my book) speakers. But it's a one-time only thing for him, since he can't add music to it (we live more than half the country apart). I happen to also have a Klipsch iPod dock with 2 small speakers and separate subwoofer, which I kept in my office until I retired this past March, and it is now in my bedroom, although if I ever listen to music there, it is primarily through headphones, Sennheiser HD598 and separate amplifier or an inexpensive but effective pair from Sony.

 
 Posted:   Sep 28, 2013 - 10:13 PM   
 By:   Recordman   (Member)

I assume you might be speaking of the Bose earphones. Can't speak of those, but I have a soft spot for the Bose 901 Speakers. I was in law school in the early 70's and as one of my several part time jobs I worked as a salesman in an audiophile "stereo" store. This was when the original "901""direct-reflecting" Bose speakers were introduced which were and are amazing as you first hear them, In their design , each "speaker" enclosure contained 8 5" speakers angled towards the rear and one front facing 5" speaker facing towards the front to provide "stereo" directionality Included is an equalizer and two speaker pedestals (though many people preferred to hang the speakers to enhance the amazing Bose effect of spacious all encompassing sound.

I believe each set originally sold for about $300.....the current 901 version sells for about $1300. If you ever can find an audiophile store near you that sells Bose, it would be worth your time simply to get an actual demonstration of their effect. It truly will astonish you. (NO I do not represent Bose in any way). Back then I would play sound for customers through any of the speakers in our demonstration room and then demo the Bose 901 and they never failed to stun. Favorite demo records included Rimsky-Korsakov's "Russian Eastern Overture" and Santana.

I no longer have my original Bose but did keep all my McIntosh electronics which still satisfy.


[startquote fron solium]Whats the consensus on Bose? Supposedly it gives you high end quality sound in a small wireless package?/endquote

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 28, 2013 - 10:26 PM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

I remember the 901's well. Beautiful speakers, amazing sound. I never had a pair, but I always wanted them.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 29, 2013 - 1:49 AM   
 By:   MusicMad   (Member)

I've posted before expressing my love for home h-fi using speakers, this partly driven by the dislike of headphones; also, happily, my wife likes a lot of my music so why not share?

I've invested a lot of money over many years improving the set-up and now have better than basic components without anything being true audiophile quality.

But, yes, my CD player has a puck to hold the disc in place! Not that I use the CD more than once or twice a month these days.

As with all non-essential (luxury?) items, it is the middle-ground which suffers. As has been stated, there will always be the high-end market for those with the funds/desires but a move by the manufacturers towards making everything that bit more affordable continues to dominate the hi-fi market. My local (! - some 20+ miles away) hi-fi store where I've sourced most of my components no longer exists. It changed ownership a few years ago and now is closed; the chain that owned it has closed another 2 or 3 shops across the country in the last year or so. That's the market ... buyers who are satisfied with more affordable products will buy accordingly.

But a couple of things puzzle me ...

So many appear to like and recommend the iPod and yet we all know that Apple is far from being cheap ... indeed, their products carry a mark-up just for the badge. So do users who spend a few hundred dollars/pounds/euros buying an iPod actually believe that the product is worth that money? Is the iPod that much better than a non-Apple alternative?

And, for those who don't believe spending more money on components brings better results then why not limit your spend to an all-in-one micro-system? I think my mother's player cost about GBP60 - she thought it was a lot of money. So if something that basic (FM/AM Radio and CD and cassette players) is not quite good enough ... at what point (i.e. how much) does the system become good enough ... 200/300/400 ... dollars/pounds/euros?

Personally I would love to spend 10x as much on my hi-fi than I have because I am certain that the benefits will be enormous. Maybe not 10x better ... it's far too subjective an issue to assess that ... but given my limited system is far better than the cheap hi-fi I lived with for many years I have no reason to believe that the sound quality cannot be improved further.

NP: Dvorak's Symphony No.9 in E minor, Op.95 B.178 (Tennstedt/BPO - 1984] and loving it! I know there isn't a 100 piece orchestra in my living room but it sounds very realistic to my ears! smile

Mitch

 
 Posted:   Sep 29, 2013 - 2:52 AM   
 By:   JohnnyG   (Member)

Home stereo systems are dead?

Well, nobody told this to my system which stands proudly on my living room and will continue to do so no matter what!...

C'mon, besides the wonderful sound, unmatched by any of the new devices, it's so much more inviting and uplifting to look at such a pair of speakers:




...or this turntable system:



smile

 
 Posted:   Sep 29, 2013 - 5:31 AM   
 By:   MKRUltra   (Member)


So many appear to like and recommend the iPod and yet we all know that Apple is far from being cheap ... indeed, their products carry a mark-up just for the badge. So do users who spend a few hundred dollars/pounds/euros buying an iPod actually believe that the product is worth that money? Is the iPod that much better than a non-Apple alternative?


Anyone who spends more than $100 bucks on an iPod is being very gullible. They usually crap out after a couple years for one reason or another. (My first iPod lasted two years, and then I didn't get another til last summer). Planned obsolescence is definitely a factor, which is another reason I'll never give up CDs -- no inevitable data loss from hard drive death, no need to constantly move stuff over to save it, etc.

For me, an iPod is just a lovely tool to make a commute less insufferable, or to play iTunes or MP3 only releases off of.

 
 Posted:   Sep 29, 2013 - 5:52 AM   
 By:   mastadge   (Member)

They usually crap out after a couple years for one reason or another. .

In my experience, those reasons usually involve people not taking care of their stuff. My iPod is 4 years old and going strong, and the one I had before it still works too. But when I travel with it I keep it in a padded case. Many of my peers seem to have no compunction about just tossing them in a bag unprotected, don't worry too much about dropping 'em, etc.

 
 Posted:   Sep 29, 2013 - 5:59 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

@ Ron and Recordman- I should have been more specific. I was asking about the compact deck system with a CD drive and iPod dock. Thxs for the replies.

 
 Posted:   Sep 29, 2013 - 6:05 AM   
 By:   Maleficio   (Member)

@ Ron and Recordman- I should have been more specific. I was asking about the compact deck system with a CD drive and iPod dock. Thxs for the replies.

Bose tends not to be viewed favorably in audiophile circles mainly because you get much better components for the prices that Bose charges.

 
 Posted:   Sep 29, 2013 - 6:13 AM   
 By:   MKRUltra   (Member)

They usually crap out after a couple years for one reason or another. .

In my experience, those reasons usually involve people not taking care of their stuff.


Not in my case. Plugged it in one day, and it blew. iPods also have crummy hard drives -- my ex had one of those 100+gb ones, and always past a certain storage threshold the programming would start to mess up, cover artwork would disappear, shift, and generally go haywire. A common problem, apparently.

 
 Posted:   Sep 29, 2013 - 6:19 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

@ Ron and Recordman- I should have been more specific. I was asking about the compact deck system with a CD drive and iPod dock. Thxs for the replies.

Bose tends not to be viewed favorably in audiophile circles mainly because you get much better components for the prices that Bose charges.


That was my suspicion. I came across such a board but only breezed through it. Their comments were not favorable towards the Bose system. Though I also took into account it was an audiophile board and their standards are different from the average joe that wants great sound from a simple set up.

 
 Posted:   Sep 29, 2013 - 6:24 AM   
 By:   OnlyGoodMusic   (Member)

Lately, Bose headphones have been getting very favorable reviews.

But as far as their stereo/surround systems are concerned, there's been a lot of hostility, most of it justified (as was/is with Bang & Olufsen). There's a saying in my native language that's telling, but not readily translatable: "Bose klingt wie Dose" - which means: the sound of Bose systems equals that of the sound coming out of tin cans.

They sure are guilty of propagating the idea that even miniscule-sized speakers can produce powerful sound, combined with a subwoofer. So you can hide those speakers (again, there's a telling nick for those in German: "Brüllwürfel", like cacophony cubes) anywhere, but enjoy the full range of sound. Well, turns out, you can't.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 29, 2013 - 6:42 AM   
 By:   Ado   (Member)

It strikes me as like one of those yahoo articles that is not so correct.
I think that it is not nearly dead. And with home theaters being so popular essentially that is a home stereo, since a DVD and and Bluray player also play CD's.

For those who go to PC play for a few years, when they have a real house and a real job, they will want a home stereo/home theater. There is no way that an IPod, or I whatever, or any other phone device replaces a real stereo system.

 
 Posted:   Sep 29, 2013 - 7:11 AM   
 By:   Perky_Norm   (Member)

They usually crap out after a couple years for one reason or another. .

In my experience, those reasons usually involve people not taking care of their stuff.


Not in my case. Plugged it in one day, and it blew. iPods also have crummy hard drives -- my ex had one of those 100+gb ones, and always past a certain storage threshold the programming would start to mess up, cover artwork would disappear, shift, and generally go haywire. A common problem, apparently.


You must both have just been unlucky. I'm far from being an Apple 'fanboy' (I find all the Cult around technology baffling & a tad disturbing to be honest!) but I've owned my 5th gen 80GB iPod since 2007, and it's used virtually daily. Using Apple Lossless files and a decent pair of headphones, I'm still impressed at how good it sounds.

Of course, now I've written this, it'll probably conk out now wink

There is a gizmo I've bought online (but haven't had to use yet, obviously) which allows you to take out the hard drive when it finally gives up, and use flash memory cards instead. A very 'green' idea instead of throwing it away and buying something new.

For anyone interested: http://www.tarkan.info/20080115/tutorials/iflash-ipod-compact-flash-mk2

 
 Posted:   Sep 29, 2013 - 7:14 AM   
 By:   Perky_Norm   (Member)

...or this turntable system:



smile


A superb deck, and I love the Orbe too, though still think the Gyro has the looks edge.

Lovely form follows design approach, which just happens to end up looking amazing.

And the link between its designer (RIP) and design/model work for 2001 and Star Wars is also pretty cool wink

Using a Technics SP-10 Mk.II myself, but every now and again I get the urge to 'side-grade' to an Gyro as I adore its looks!

P_N

 
 Posted:   Sep 29, 2013 - 7:18 AM   
 By:   OnlyGoodMusic   (Member)

Yeah, it's looks, but looks only. Actually there's a number of expensive turntables around that look like an atomic power plant.

No matter how elaborate the turntable is (and I've also been toying with the idea at some point of getting me one of those), they cannot change the fact that the dynamics of vinyl (9 kHz max) are so severely limited compared to those of CD/DVD/SACD/DVD-A and BluRay (20 kHz and up!).

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 29, 2013 - 7:39 AM   
 By:   eriknelson   (Member)

Yeah, it's looks, but looks only. Actually there's a number of expensive turntables around that look like an atomic power plant.

No matter how elaborate the turntable is (and I've also been toying with the idea at some point of getting me one of those), they cannot change the fact that the dynamics of vinyl (9 kHz max) are so severely limited compared to those of CD/DVD/SACD/DVD-A and BluRay (20 kHz and up!).


Technical specs aside, I have a lot of vinyl albums in my collection that are not (and have never been) available on CD.

 
 Posted:   Sep 29, 2013 - 8:20 AM   
 By:   Perky_Norm   (Member)

Yeah, it's looks, but looks only. Actually there's a number of expensive turntables around that look like an atomic power plant.

No matter how elaborate the turntable is (and I've also been toying with the idea at some point of getting me one of those), they cannot change the fact that the dynamics of vinyl (9 kHz max) are so severely limited compared to those of CD/DVD/SACD/DVD-A and BluRay (20 kHz and up!).


Far from looks only really - it sounds fantastic and is a superb piece of well thought out engineering. It's a piece of engineering art, and is one of the truly better sounding decks that can embarrass the pricier toys.

They are certainly technically deficient in terms of 'on paper' specs, but subjectively, they can still sound utterly fantastic. And many modern remasters are so badly screwed up, the original LPs often offer a more satisfying listening experience with todays compression/loudness wars mastering. Often the masters used for todays LPs have had less sonic damage done to them in terms of punching up the loudness (to sound impressive on the move with ipods, or in car use) levels, unlike the CD versions.

Technically, given a CD vs LP I'd always take the CD. If both have had the same care taken with the mastering...

However given modern mastering practices for rock/indie/pop etc. I'll often search for the LP instead - better mastering.

For old albums, often the LP can sound better as it was manufactured when the original masters were still fresh. Remasters made from 30-50+ year old tapes can sound inferior simply due to age. Again it's highly variable though.

Pain in the arse to set up correctly & rather pricey to get truly decent sound from unless you have limitless cash, a decent vacuum LP cleaner (check Loricraft prices - ouch!) for second-hand purchases, unless one only buys new or absolutely mint pressings. Several times I've thought of getting rid of my SP-10, but then I put on an LP and remember what this flawed format is capable of... But that's a whole subject unto itself wink

I try not to get involved in the which format sounds best debates these days. For me it's which format has had the most care taken in its mastering for each respective album. I then go with that (the Steve Hoffman forums are great for that kind of info).

Thankfully, the masterings of 99% of soundtrack albums are usually of an extremely high standard, and make the most of the CD medium. I have very few soundtrack LPs that sound superior to remasters by FSM, Intrada etc. But plenty of rock/pop etc LPs which smoke the CD reissues...

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 29, 2013 - 2:32 PM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

I occasionally find myself going through the Steve Hoffman forums, also.
The problem is that for every kernel of actual knowledge to be found there one has to sift through endless misinformation.
For example, I estimate that one in ten people there understand what compression and limiting actually are, yet they throw those terms back and forth at each other so much that the misuse becomes comical.
Still, taken all for all, it can be a valuable resource.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 29, 2013 - 2:59 PM   
 By:   Regie   (Member)

I went to a very good hi fi retailer in Sydney earlier this year and he said lots of people are buying valve amplifiers and turntables; that vinyl is making a resurgence and lots of music-lovers still have music systems. He showed me lots of high end gear which my (slightly) deteriorated hearing wouldn't justify these days. But I'm committed to home stereo systems and love my music on top quality equipment. Trouble is knowing what to buy these days. He was a very handsome salesman and could have sold me anything if my husband wasn't nearby!!!! I haven't bought a replacement system yet and won't do so until we have bought a new apartment and I know how much space I've got.

At the moment I live on 1acre and have my music very loud. Am dreading unit life because I'll have to turn it down, but other gains are to be made with a new 'lock and go' living space. Besides, I have another house by the beach anyway!!

 
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