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Posted: |
Dec 11, 2013 - 5:51 PM
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By: |
Jon Broxton
(Member)
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I'm astonished. If these composers can make full live orchestras sound this shitty then they possess skills beyond the ken of most mortals.
I can understand you saying that about someone like Randy Edelman, who regularly used synth overdubs on his strings for his unique sound, or combination composers like Zimmer or his band of merry men... but to say that about classically trained composers who are WELL KNOWN for going out of their way to use full orchestras, and mix their scores accordingly - like Joe Hisaishi, Korzeniowski, Desplat, Mark McKenzie, Carlo Siliotto et al - I'd argue that there's either something wrong with your speakers or your ears, because the live elements of those scores are so obvious they metaphorically smack you in the face.
Also, your comments in the last couple of posts seem to be less about the actual quality of the composition itself, and more to do with the fact that some composers have the audacity to use samples (would that every composer was given a music budget large enough to hire a 100-piece symphony orchestra!), or choose not to write a huge orchestral work for a film that might not require it (solo piano? Begone! Chamber sized ensemble? Not big enough for me!)
Sometimes I get the feeling that people hear what they want to hear in order to support a point.
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I don't understand your point.
You're listening to MUSIC on YouTube. And are you even listening to the complete albums? You made quite the judgment on TWENTY film scores in less than 3 hours after Jon posted his list?
-Erik-
How long did it take you to fall in love with your favorite film scores? With me, it was always the same—the first few cues sitting in the theatre watching the film. Sometimes just listening to the main title and I knew this was a score I was going to buy.
It's like the old saying goes, a girl knows within the first five minutes of a date if she's going to have sex with the guy. Well, I've met these scores and for most of 'em—we ain't fucking.
By the way, most of the complete albums ARE on YouTube in HD sound. In fact, based on David's recommendation I'll be giving the entire Evil Dead score a try tomorrow.
Evil Dead is actually a very melodic score. Banos uses three central themes/figures and varies them throughout the course of the score. By the final cue, the listener feels like they've been on a journey. Love the brass chorale version of the brother/sister theme. The major/minor stinger chord that accompanies the title cards kicks ass.
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I'd be happy to do a Podcast with the Kaplans as to why we've seen this change in music over the past decade in particular.
But I will use one example here nonetheless.
When composers shifted to using samples (kind of like photographs of a waveform that an instrument produces when it emits sound) for mock ups so that directors and producers could micromanage a dept for decades that had to leave almost solely to the composer, orchestral film music took a dramatic turn. Why you ask? Because where once the composer would compose onto manuscript and think in terms of melody shape, rhythmic dynamism, texture (so easy to quickly see looking at how many notes would be on a page), and phrasing, all these trappings of musicality were eschewed by the technological tools. Most composers arent' concert pianists but the main input method of recording into sequencers or DAWs (digital Audio workstations like Logic, DP, Pro Tools, etc) is the keyboard. So the composer becomes a slave to his/her physical technique. Scoring onto manuscript never had these constraints. Also, for the sake of expediency, composers don't use "step enter" to input their notes- they play in realtime to a metronome. This usually forces the composer into a rigid, static meter and worse, tempo.
Compare Jerry Goldsmith from 1973 to Jerry Goldsmith from 1997. Papillon has a ton of meter (time signature) changes. It is dynamic. The music breaths and its propulsive at once. The action cues shift between different instruments and articulations as well as complex rhythmic phrases. Compare this to The Edge (1997) which was still a very good Goldsmith score. Most of the cues are a static time signature, there's less change in articulation (ie staccato, legato, ornaments, etc). Why is this? Because the composer nowadays loads up a short string patch and plunks away. The music becomes more static because of the methodology.
Manuscript entry doesn't pose the same problems. A composer can write a line, then use a slur when he wants legato. he can use staccato marks to indicate shorter articulations for crisp terse moments. If one wants ornamentation (half or whole note trills, or even better metered tremolo) they just add the proper indication. If one was to do this in real time, he/she would have to dial up a patch with various samples and try to trigger them in real time (we call this keyswitching) but it clearly seldom happens which is why we are in the state of where we are.
The reason why John Williams' music sounds the same as it did 30 years ago is because his methods haven't changed. Also, the guys know more about music than almost everyone else working today combined.
If you don't believe me, I remember Prokofiev talking about this very same issue about composer back in his days except instead of computers and samples, he was saying one shouldn't compose at the piano because it too constrained a composer by his or her technique.
Something to think about....
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Compare Jerry Goldsmith from 1973 to Jerry Goldsmith from 1997. Papillon has a ton of meter (time signature) changes. It is dynamic. The music breaths and its propulsive at once. The action cues shift between different instruments and articulations as well as complex rhythmic phrases. Compare this to The Edge (1997) which was still a very good Goldsmith score. Most of the cues are a static time signature, there's less change in articulation (ie staccato, legato, ornaments, etc). Why is this? Because the composer nowadays loads up a short string patch and plunks away. The music becomes more static because of the methodology.
That's what Goldsmith meant when he said in his later years that he was writing a lot fewer notes now than he did back in the day. 
And it's STILL a mile and a half removed from Hans Zimmer, Steve Craplonsky and others.
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Compare Jerry Goldsmith from 1973 to Jerry Goldsmith from 1997. Papillon has a ton of meter (time signature) changes. It is dynamic. The music breaths and its propulsive at once. The action cues shift between different instruments and articulations as well as complex rhythmic phrases. Compare this to The Edge (1997) which was still a very good Goldsmith score. Most of the cues are a static time signature, there's less change in articulation (ie staccato, legato, ornaments, etc). Why is this? Because the composer nowadays loads up a short string patch and plunks away. The music becomes more static because of the methodology.
That's what Goldsmith meant when he said in his later years that he was writing a lot fewer notes now than he did back in the day.
And it's STILL a mile and a half removed from Hans Zimmer, Steve Craplonsky and others.
Agreed but a classical composer said it before as well.
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I wouldn't call it dead. I don't think film music could ever actually die out, considering we have nearly 100 years worth of film scores that we're always able to listen to.
As far as the art form goes today, I always hear an occasional gem from a composer. I recently listened to Alberto Iglesias's score for LE MOINE. Really enjoyed it.
Don't get discouraged. Keep reading reviews around here and I'm sure these knowledgeable folks will steer you in the direction of great film music, new or old.
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Well, I've listened to Evil Dead twice in a row now and I'm sure of one thing: modern film music isn't for me.
David, you did a better job with almost the same approach in your "Bell Witch Concert Suite."
It has to be me. I just can't plug into this new music! I don't like it. I listen to it and think, "this has been done better by others."
I'm sad. Film music has left me behind. "My personal and narrow focus of a genre is outdated" indeed!
How right you were, LeHah. How right you were!
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Well, I've listened to Evil Dead twice in a row now and I'm sure of one thing: modern film music isn't for me.
Evil Dead. The Roque Banos one? Well, that's actually a contemporary example of a sound, well-made "traditional" score by one of the best of today's film score practicioners in recent memory.
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Well, I've listened to Evil Dead twice in a row now and I'm sure of one thing: modern film music isn't for me.
Evil Dead. The Roque Banos one? Well, that's actually a contemporary example of a sound, well-made "traditional" score by one of the best of today's film score practicioners in recent memory.
That's the insidious irony of it. It IS well crafted. Everything David Coscina said about it was true. It's melodic and compositionally rock solid. Baños IS a gifted composer and I can recognize that intellectually. Emotionally, I just couldn't connect with his score. I just... couldn't.
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That's why nowadays I stick mainly to european composers (and their work for european movies) like Kaczmarek, Marianelli, Desplat, Martichelli, Korzeniowski, Einaudi etc. The americans just don't do it for me anymore. Outside of the occasional John Williams and James Newton Howard.
Yawn.Yet another article and thread to state that ' Oh film music was much better when i was growing up as a kid in the 70s, you youngsters today dont know what REAL film music is with all your world wide interwebs and zimmerisms '
By that by, i just want to say that Brian Tyler in my opinion, is the best ever composer for action movies.Yep, even better than the mighty Goldsmith.
I don't get why you quoted my post? I said nothing about "the gold ol' times" im not THAT old and neither are most of the composers I listed.
I also like some of the scores by Brian Tyler. But he's not on my top 10 list of most listened to composers
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