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 Posted:   Dec 13, 2013 - 6:10 AM   
 By:   Other Tallguy   (Member)

@Other Tallguy
I thought that there is at least 2 version of this song with difference in arrangement - film version and single/"Carry On" album version. They are much different.
And that album version was released on 50th anniversary collection.


I don't know for certain that it's the Film version on the 50, but it's definitely not the single. I just played them back to back.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 13, 2013 - 9:04 AM   
 By:   MusicMad   (Member)

This is just me, but you know what I'd love?

I'd love a box set containing individually sleeved 2CD editions of all the Bond scores 1962—1987,
...
But, y'know what I'd settle for?

I'd settle for a 2 or 3 CD set just containing as-yet unreleased cues. That way, at least I could make up complete score programs at home.

Cheers


I believe when we last discussed this I expressed the view that I wasn't too bothered about a Box Set ... but yes, I'm in agreement with the idea of releases of the unreleased material. I rip everything to a PC~NAS for streaming anyway.

I note, Stephen, that you specify the first 25 years only and I'm with you there, too. As much as I like David Arnold's Tomorrow Never Dies none of the scores since John Barry's last opus: The Living Daylights has worked that special magic with me. Indeed, the last one generates such negative feelings for me (along with the film) that it has taken me some twelve months to regain my JB007 enthusiasm. I played that score a few days ago and my wife said it still reminds her much more of Doctor Who than James Bond.

One reason for seeking the full score releases (re-releases?) would be to equalise the sound ... one small problem I have with the wonderful extended releases of a decade ago is the change in sound between the original album tracks and the, then, newly released tracks.

Hence, Stephen's idea for an album (+ extras) and score release for each film is merited. I've bought multiple copies of the earlier scores in various formats ... another copy would not be out of place. If only!

Mitch

 
 Posted:   Dec 13, 2013 - 9:21 AM   
 By:   Other Tallguy   (Member)

I played that score a few days ago and my wife said it still reminds her much more of Doctor Who than James Bond.

Murray's scores for 10 sound very James Bond.

 
 Posted:   Dec 13, 2013 - 9:45 AM   
 By:   Stephen Woolston   (Member)

'The Spy Who Loved Me', as heard in the movie would be my holy grail, i know it's not everyone's cup of tea, but i love it !

I'm with you.

It's not my number one 007 grail — for me the remaining John Barry scores are highest priority but I am absolutely with you that I love The Spy Who Loved Me.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 13, 2013 - 12:23 PM   
 By:   Tango Urilla   (Member)

I watched The Living Daylights again last night (been going through the Bonds one a week since picking up the Bond 50 blu-ray set) and found the only unreleased Barry from the film is the two cues when Bond lands on Linda's boat in the beginning and when he's picked up by the CIA girls. Either cue is about 10-15 seconds long so I'm guessing they were left off the Rykodisc release on account of their brevity and not flowing with the rest of the album. The various music that accompanies Necros throughout the film is either The Pretenders' "Where Has Everybody Gone?" or found in one of the released tracks "Necros Attacks", "Murder at the Fair", or "Inflight Fight". Also thought there might have been an unreleased version of Kara's theme that plays when Bond and Kara are at Shah's palace, but it sounds identical to me as "Kara Meets Bond", just without the ominous tag at the end. So it looks like we have The Living Daylights virtually complete.

 
 Posted:   Dec 13, 2013 - 12:41 PM   
 By:   danbeck   (Member)

I watched The Living Daylights again last night (been going through the Bonds one a week since picking up the Bond 50 blu-ray set) and found the only unreleased Barry from the film is the two cues when Bond lands on Linda's boat in the beginning and when he's picked up by the CIA girls. Either cue is about 10-15 seconds long so I'm guessing they were left off the Rykodisc release on account of their brevity and not flowing with the rest of the album. The various music that accompanies Necros throughout the film is either The Pretenders' "Where Has Everybody Gone?" or found in one of the released tracks "Necros Attacks", "Murder at the Fair", or "Inflight Fight". Also thought there might have been an unreleased version of Kara's theme that plays when Bond and Kara are at Shah's palace, but it sounds identical to me as "Kara Meets Bond", just without the ominous tag at the end. So it looks like we have The Living Daylights virtually complete.

If I remember correctly there's also an unreleased cue when Bond is in the plane and sees the rebels trying to escape (before the Droping the Bomb cue)

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 13, 2013 - 12:45 PM   
 By:   Mr. Shark   (Member)

There's also this cue, which should be between 'Assassin and Drugged' and 'Air Bond.'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59Ooymp2ttI

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 13, 2013 - 12:52 PM   
 By:   Tango Urilla   (Member)

If I remember correctly there's also an unreleased cue when Bond is in the plane and sees the rebels trying to escape (before the Droping the Bomb cue)

Yes, you're right. There's a 10-second unreleased cue that follows on from a portion of "Air Bond" at that part. There's also a brief unreleased cue that precedes the second half of the track "Murder at the Fair" when Bond confronts Pushkin in his hotel room. I'm not sure how satisfying they would be to hear on their own apart from the film, however, given how brief they are. They're really more like tags to the already released cues that accompany them.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 13, 2013 - 2:17 PM   
 By:   mortenbond   (Member)

Being a lawyer I tend to get interested in the legal side of these discussions on releasing new material. Here is some (new) food for thought on the remaining Bond scores being expanded:

The following only refers to music being recorded in and under EU jurisdiction. Last month the EU decided to extend the copyright on RELEASED material to 70 years. For UNRELEASED material the copyright is still 50 years. This is the reason why The Beatles company Apple decided to release about 60 previously unreleased songs (recorded i 1963) on Itunes next week. In that way, they can maintain the copyright for another 20 years.

If the UNRELEASED Bond music that is recorded more than 50 years ago is not released now, the copyright will expire - and the exploitation of these rights cannot be controlled by anyone, not even EON, record labels, musicians or composers.

So can you find the UNRELEASED material that is recorded more than 50 years ago - go right ahead and release your own "Secret Bond Music Extravaganza" double cd!.

But beware, I have not yet found out if "released" also means "used as background music in films", or just issued as LPs, CDs or other music formats. But my legal mind doubt it. But then again, I have been proven wrong in court...at least once. smile

 
 Posted:   Dec 13, 2013 - 3:14 PM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

Well, thankfully we don't have to wonder about the legalities -- Lukas and Roger, for example, have been dealign with the legalities for over ten years -- they know by now or have people who can tell them.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 14, 2013 - 7:43 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

Being a lawyer I tend to get interested in the legal side of these discussions on releasing new material. Here is some (new) food for thought on the remaining Bond scores being expanded:

The following only refers to music being recorded in and under EU jurisdiction. Last month the EU decided to extend the copyright on RELEASED material to 70 years. For UNRELEASED material the copyright is still 50 years. This is the reason why The Beatles company Apple decided to release about 60 previously unreleased songs (recorded i 1963) on Itunes next week. In that way, they can maintain the copyright for another 20 years.

If the UNRELEASED Bond music that is recorded more than 50 years ago is not released now, the copyright will expire - and the exploitation of these rights cannot be controlled by anyone, not even EON, record labels, musicians or composers.

So can you find the UNRELEASED material that is recorded more than 50 years ago - go right ahead and release your own "Secret Bond Music Extravaganza" double cd!.

But beware, I have not yet found out if "released" also means "used as background music in films", or just issued as LPs, CDs or other music formats. But my legal mind doubt it. But then again, I have been proven wrong in court...at least once. smile


Great post. You would think they might have released the complete music from the first two Bond films by now, if only from the music and effects track, to get another 20 years of copy protection. I too have wondered if use in a film constitutes a "release," even if there was no dedicated musico-only release.

Not only the Beatles, but also Bob Dylan and the Beach Boys are all releasing download albums of their unreleased music from 1963 in order to extend copyright protection.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 18, 2013 - 3:08 PM   
 By:   AndrewH   (Member)

Some Moonraker unreleased cues

Zero Gravity (1:10)
NASA Shuttle Launch (0:33)
Freefall (1:34)
Venini Glass Works (1:13)
Enter the centrifuge (0:38)
Here is to Us (1:02)
Gondola Chase (2:25)
DRAX Shutlle Launch (0:44)
Gunbarrel and Hijack (1:20)

11 minutes


There is more than that. At the cable car there is the background music that sounds like Statue Dance from Deadfall. Plus like Diamonds Are Forever many source cues were also complete recordings. e.g. airport music, Q's trick, The Whyte House. So chances are that Barry composed and recorded much more than was ever on the film.

Though I thought the Moonraker recordings were lost.

The Spy Who Loved Me has to be a priority particularly as it received an Oscar nomination.

Personally I'd love it if Raise The Titanic was found. I love the Nic Raine re-recording but to hear Barry's version is my main holy grail. I doubt I'll ever see that in my lifetime though.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 19, 2013 - 4:51 AM   
 By:   Londoner   (Member)

It's definetly "The Spy who loved me", that we need! I think, you forget, that the music hearing in the movie aren't what Hamlish want. It sounds like cutting room mess! Only snippets of the music. Sometimes repeated, than to another scene, instead of the scene where it composed for. And most of the album are rerecordings. And 85 % of the music heard in the film isn't on the album. Very short pieces, but sometimes ... WOW! I'm very interested in the Motorbike Attack, definetly a good piece and definetly much longer composed than this, with the "killing" ending in the movie. This Hamlish score needs absolutely a definitive Deluxe Edition release.

One of the best scores of Barry are "A View to a Kill". Marvelous Barry Music and there is something missing. The Horse Chase - Short, but absolutely wonderful and The Fire scene - One of the best orchestral versions of the theme song - great with Timpani and Tam Tam! The Paris Scene - Big Barry again. The Battle in Stacys Home with the broken vase. Yes they are all short, but the album have to much stuff of the same music. Sometimes the short cues are one of the best cues.

Cutting Room Mess is very prominent in "Dr. No". But the master tapes are lost? I want here a definetly Edition, with all alternates and really all music Norman composed for this fil in intact form. His style is so different from Barry.

"From Russia with Love" is only much missing in the last part of the movie with the train and the boat chase. (They tracked some Norman "No"-Music in it. Did Barry ever composed his own music for these scenes?)

"Goldfinger" - Yes okay, but we don't miss anything of great music, if they don't release an expanded release. All the scores from "Thunderball" to "Live and Let Die" are almost complete. There is missing here and there a litttle bit (Thunderball the most/Diamonds are forever only one segment) but we don't need a new expanded release. But when they do it - they are welcome! Of course!

"For your eyes only" - yes it is okay, the same for "The Living Daylights". "The Man with the Golden Gun" needs definetly an expanded release, "Moonraker" too. But the "Moonraker" album has very much of the strong stuff of the score. It's the opening scene and the Venice Scene I miss! Same with the "Octopussy" Score. The best piece missing from the album is the Indian Music! Not much more.

"Licence to kill" is a Kamen Score! Most of the music is missing on the album, but most of the best music is on it. I really want an expanded release. I think releasing Kamen Scores is nowadays very "In"!

I'm not so interested in Arnold Scores. He knows what he does, but I can't really like his scores (not only the Bond Scores). But expanded releases of them are okay. The same with Mr. Newman.

This is not off topic: We need a very wonderful edited expanded release of Michel Legrands "Never say never again". Released by a professional lable (Silva Screen), the releasing was very disappointing for me! Not complete, sometimes very bad monaural sound, sometimes crispy stereo sound and where are the Herb Alpert Version of the theme song and no wonderfull designed and edited booklet! This Legrand score need absolutely a definitive Deluxe Edition release.



 
 
 Posted:   Dec 19, 2013 - 10:01 PM   
 By:   Tango Urilla   (Member)

It's definetly "The Spy who loved me", that we need! I think, you forget, that the music hearing in the movie aren't what Hamlish want. It sounds like cutting room mess! Only snippets of the music. Sometimes repeated, than to another scene, instead of the scene where it composed for. And most of the album are rerecordings. And 85 % of the music heard in the film isn't on the album. Very short pieces, but sometimes ... WOW! I'm very interested in the Motorbike Attack, definetly a good piece and definetly much longer composed than this, with the "killing" ending in the movie. This Hamlish score needs absolutely a definitive Deluxe Edition release.

Yes, The Spy Who Loved Me in its original complete form could be a revelation. While this score overall is one of my least favorites of the series, Hamlisch did craft an interesting work of disco beats, exotic instrumentation, and grand, sweeping orchestrations. I'd love to hear how it all plays in complete form.

One of the best scores of Barry are "A View to a Kill". Marvelous Barry Music and there is something missing. The Horse Chase - Short, but absolutely wonderful and The Fire scene - One of the best orchestral versions of the theme song - great with Timpani and Tam Tam! The Paris Scene - Big Barry again. The Battle in Stacys Home with the broken vase. Yes they are all short, but the album have to much stuff of the same music. Sometimes the short cues are one of the best cues.

Absolutely. A View to a Kill is my favorite Bond score behind On Her Majesty's Secret Service. The main theme works wonderfully in Duran Duran's rocking song, and remarkably works even better in John Barry's lovely and haunting orchestral renditions. As you say, some of the best variations of it were left off the original album, especially that cue that plays as the blimp approaches the Golden Gate Bridge.

Cutting Room Mess is very prominent in "Dr. No". But the master tapes are lost? I want here a definetly Edition, with all alternates and really all music Norman composed for this fil in intact form. His style is so different from Barry.

"From Russia with Love" is only much missing in the last part of the movie with the train and the boat chase. (They tracked some Norman "No"-Music in it. Did Barry ever composed his own music for these scenes?)

"Goldfinger" - Yes okay, but we don't miss anything of great music, if they don't release an expanded release. All the scores from "Thunderball" to "Live and Let Die" are almost complete. There is missing here and there a litttle bit (Thunderball the most/Diamonds are forever only one segment) but we don't need a new expanded release. But when they do it - they are welcome! Of course!


I'm not that familiar with what's missing from these first three films. Apart from the second half of the Miami music and the plucky stud farm cue, I can't think of much notable missing music from Goldfinger. I recall the stories about John Barry's disappointment with the original 1962 James Bond theme being tracked into the helicopter fight in You Only Live Twice. I also wonder if Barry wrote anything for the helicopter and boat chase scenes in From Russia With Love before Monty Norman's Dr. No score was dropped in in the editing room.

"For your eyes only" - yes it is okay, the same for "The Living Daylights". "The Man with the Golden Gun" needs definetly an expanded release, "Moonraker" too. But the "Moonraker" album has very much of the strong stuff of the score. It's the opening scene and the Venice Scene I miss! Same with the "Octopussy" Score. The best piece missing from the album is the Indian Music! Not much more.

As with A View to a Kill, Moonraker and Octopussy don't have a whole lot of music missing, but what is missing from these scores is truly spectacular, particularly in the case of Moonraker. Just the addition of ten minutes more of unreleased score for any of these Barry/Moore outings would round them out remarkably well.

"Licence to kill" is a Kamen Score! Most of the music is missing on the album, but most of the best music is on it. I really want an expanded release. I think releasing Kamen Scores is nowadays very "In"!

Agreed! Licence to Kill needs to happen! Much of the more prominent music in the film did make its way onto the album, but there is a lot of great material in the many subtler cues yet to be released.

I'm not so interested in Arnold Scores. He knows what he does, but I can't really like his scores (not only the Bond Scores). But expanded releases of them are okay. The same with Mr. Newman.

I'm a big David Arnold fan, but then again I grew up with the music of the 90s. Arnold's music for blockbusters like Independence Day and Tomorrow Never Dies defined action scoring for me. All three of his Brosnan scores would really benefit from expansions. Still not sure quite how I feel about Newman. He did some interesting work on Skyfall, but as with Marvin Hamlisch and The Spy Who Loved Me, I just don't know that his music sounds like it fits the world of James Bond. He'll likely be back for Bond 24, so we'll see what direction he takes with his sophomore outing.

This is not off topic: We need a very wonderful edited expanded release of Michel Legrands "Never say never again". Released by a professional lable (Silva Screen), the releasing was very disappointing for me! Not complete, sometimes very bad monaural sound, sometimes crispy stereo sound and where are the Herb Alpert Version of the theme song and no wonderfull designed and edited booklet! This Legrand score need absolutely a definitive Deluxe Edition release.

I'm all for an expansion of Never Say Never Again, despite my assertion that Michel Legrand's music as heard in the film is one of the most egregious cases of mismatched music and picture I've ever seen. I'm referring in particular to that awful jazz action track that accompanies Bond and Domino's escape on horseback. Not that that scene was exactly high art to begin with, but the music just beats you about the ears with almost no relation to what's going on on-screen. Apparently, there was some musical shuffling going on in the editing room again, so maybe Legrand isn't entirely to blame. I do like his groovy, romantic variations on the title theme that are scattered throughout the film. It really is kind of funny though: I recently picked up the three-disc Nouvelle Vague collection and found that my favorite tracks across the three discs were all from Legrand. Pairing Legrand with my favorite film franchise should have been all kinds of greatness. But with Never Say Never Again, neither the film nor the score quite measure up for me.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 20, 2013 - 7:59 AM   
 By:   jkannry   (Member)

My understanding if what's available comes from published interview with our own Lukas Kendall in2003 regarding then newly release expanded editions. Some like a view to a kill are lost. They can't find the complete masters. A few others either ran out off time to do.

"DS: Why wasn't Dr. No, From Russia with Love, The Man with the Golden Gun, Moonraker, and A View to a Kill released with extras?

LK: This is the real question... It's a combination of not having master tapes available (Dr. No and From Russia with Love are going on 40 years old, and Moonraker was recorded in Paris), and not having the time and money to do the remixes. EMI had limited resources -- these albums are midline releases to them -- and I advised them to do what I consider the classic Barry/Bond scores for which they did have the original masters: Thunderball through Diamonds Are Forever. Live and Let Die sort of happened as a bonus.

George Martin, seen here with Celine Dion in 1998, composed the music to the film Live And Let Die.



In addition to being the best scores, these were only done as a 3-track, 4-track or 8-track recordings and were not nearly as time consuming to remix as scores like The Man With the Golden Gun (16 track) and The Spy Who Loved Me (24 track) would have been. I don't know the whereabouts or condition of the A View to a Kill tapes.

In an ideal world, we would have scoured the earth for all of the masters and spent as much time and money needed to present them all in complete form. But it was not an option."
-Lukas Kendall
http://www.shatterhand007.com/QuestionRoom/Kendall.html

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 20, 2013 - 12:11 PM   
 By:   mild_cigar   (Member)

A mission for LLL.

Licence to Expand Film Scores.

 
 Posted:   Dec 20, 2013 - 12:15 PM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

Lukas made a comment not too long ago (maybe in the last four months) that basically amounted to: not happening anytime soon.

Sometimes a search engine isn't good enough to find some posts. Maybe somebody here knows it and can get it.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 20, 2013 - 6:13 PM   
 By:   Mr. Shark   (Member)

I'm not that familiar with what's missing from these first three films. Apart from the second half of the Miami music and the plucky stud farm cue, I can't think of much notable missing music from Goldfinger.

Off the top of my head:

Guitar music in the Mexican bar
Bond seduces Jill
End tag for game of golf
Bond crashes in the alley
Mirror snooping on the jet
Tighter security on Bond (the long pan through the cell with the Chinese guards pointing their guns at 007 - features a great plunger muted trumpet solo)
Barn scene
Military march for the presidential plane

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 20, 2013 - 7:55 PM   
 By:   Tango Urilla   (Member)

I'm not that familiar with what's missing from these first three films. Apart from the second half of the Miami music and the plucky stud farm cue, I can't think of much notable missing music from Goldfinger.

Off the top of my head:

Guitar music in the Mexican bar
Bond seduces Jill
End tag for game of golf
Bond crashes in the alley
Mirror snooping on the jet
Tighter security on Bond (the long pan through the cell with the Chinese guards pointing their guns at 007 - features a great plunger muted trumpet solo)
Barn scene
Military march for the presidential plane


Ah, yes. Thanks for posting that. Some good, playful cues there. I especially like the ones I put in bold.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 22, 2013 - 1:38 PM   
 By:   Zorin   (Member)

Count me in for re issues of the James Bond scores for Golden Gun, Spy Who Loved Me, Moonraker (spend some time actually looking for the tapes already), Octopussy and A View To A Kill.

I hope La La Land Records and MGM can work out an agreement to make these happen!!!

I'd be curious about the other films being reissued as well, but would have to see what they have on them vs what was on the 2003 releases.

Good stuff.

 
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