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 Posted:   Jan 22, 2014 - 10:44 AM   
 By:   Tango Urilla   (Member)

It buries the standout cues in a way that's like when you really want to date this beautiful woman, but someone who's not even related to her makes you take out her ugly dialogue-scoring cue sister first.

I've dated a lot of Blade Runner then.


Hey, hey, hey... Some of Blade Runner's sisters were pretty beautiful (with great personalities to boot wink). Rachel's Song? That's straight up marriage material right there.

 
 Posted:   Jan 22, 2014 - 10:45 AM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

I would like to know how the hell anybody here can possibly claim to know what the composer would have wanted more than the album producers who actually worked with these composers on these releases!

An album produced in 1993 for a new score would have been very, very different from an album produced now of a twenty year old score. We all know that. How many complete score presentations of new scores do you have from 1993? So an album mock-up from 1993 does not seem relevant to me.

Same for a promo (and I'm not really sure what the alleged "Matrix Reloaded" promo was, since the only evidence I've ever seen of it was the leaked tracks that presumably came from it – does anybody actually have an original?). Composers generally don't spend much money on mixing and mastering for such a thing, as that can get expensive. Plus, a composer may want a film producer or director to be able to access a specific portion of the score, since they generally don't want to sit through two hours of music. So he might say "Listen to track 8," which is part of a larger piece (but recorded and thus indexed separately). A legitimate promo is produced not as a listening experience in itself, but to promote oneself for more work. So don't assume that a promo presentation is how the composer wanted the score to be heard as a listening experience.

Oh, and by the way, composers frequently prefer it if certain tracks are left off these releases. The reaction around here to that is always "composers are poor judges of what tracks should be released." You see it time and time again. So honestly, it seems that this invented "the composer would have wanted it this way" is really code for "I wanted it this way."

That's my two cents.

- Mike (who once cut in line at the supermarket in front of James Newton Howard, so I think I have more than a little insight into how he wants his albums produced)

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 22, 2014 - 10:49 AM   
 By:   Ado   (Member)

@shiffym

let me guess, JNH had cocktail wieners, canned chili, Oreos and Big Red?

 
 Posted:   Jan 22, 2014 - 10:50 AM   
 By:   WillGoldNewtonBarryGrusin   (Member)

I would like to know how the hell anybody here can possibly claim to know what the composer would have wanted more than the album producers who actually worked with these composers on these releases!

An album produced in 1993 for a new score would have been very, very different from an album produced now of a twenty year old score. We all know that. How many complete score presentations of new scores do you have from 1993? So an album mock-up from 1993 does not seem relevant to me.

Same for a promo (and I'm not really sure what the alleged "Matrix Reloaded" promo was, since the only evidence I've ever seen of it was the leaked tracks that presumably came from it – does anybody actually have an original?). Composers generally don't spend much money on mixing and mastering for such a thing, as that can get expensive. Plus, a composer may want a film producer or director to be able to access a specific portion of the score, since they generally don't want to sit through two hours of music. So he might say "Listen to track 8," which is part of a larger piece (but recorded and thus indexed separately). A legitimate promo is produced not as a listening experience in itself, but to promote oneself for more work. So don't assume that a promo presentation is how the composer wanted the score to be heard as a listening experience.

Oh, and by the way, composers frequently prefer it if certain tracks are left off these releases. The reaction around here to that is always "composers are poor judges of what tracks should be released." You see it time and time again. So honestly, it seems that this invented "the composer would have wanted it this way" is really code for "I wanted it this way."

That's my two cents.

- Mike (who once cut in line at the supermarket in front of James Newton Howard, so I think I have more than a little insight into how he wants his albums produced)



Perfectly stated. A voice of reason.

 
 Posted:   Jan 22, 2014 - 10:51 AM   
 By:   LeHah   (Member)

Same for a promo (and I'm not really sure what the alleged "Matrix Reloaded" promo was, since the only evidence I've ever seen of it was the leaked tracks that presumably came from it – does anybody actually have an original?).

I don't but Dave still might. I'll give him a ring but he moved to Manhattan last year, so it may be in storage.

Composers generally don't spend much money on mixing and mastering for such a thing, as that can get expensive.

Except, you know, when Gabriel Yared linked to MP3s of his score to Troy on his own website. (That is to say, exceptions prove the rule.)

So don't assume that a promo presentation is how the composer wanted the score to be heard as a listening experience.

I believe I used quote blocks and other bits of obviousness, sir.

Oh, and by the way, composers frequently prefer it if certain tracks are left off these releases. The reaction around here to that is always "composers are poor judges of what tracks should be released." You see it time and time again. So honestly, it seems that this invented "the composer would have wanted it this way" is really code for "I wanted it this way."

Thats fair game. Lord knows Jerry Goldsmith did it more than once.

All this taken into account, it does not solve my earlier qualm: why in god's name would someone desire to make music a chore to be accessible? If anything, doesn't the fact that Thor wants everything to be in suites proof enough that its the worst idea possible? (By this point, I assume everyone here knows I'm using a lot of hyperbole to make a very teeny, tiny point.)

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 22, 2014 - 10:53 AM   
 By:   Kev McGann   (Member)

Doug has mentioned that James Horner is very hands-on with the production and final content of the CD's they produce, but from JNH's past record and comments (tinny synth choir substituting the real thing on some releases and KERCHIIIING! being his major comment on landing The Hunger Games gigs) I wonder how arsed he is with his final product.
That being said, it's such a tough call to make.
Shaun wants all those 'highlights' that he's grown used to from the film over the past 20 years nice and separated, while Intrada discover all these longer cues that JNH originally wrote and that some producers and editors just dialled in and out during post at the time.
Since very few have heard the new CD yet, maybe Shaun (and others) will rejoice at how amazing the dialled out music is? Who knows?
I think people should maybe at least wait until they HAVE THE CD and have spun it before screaming rage at the machine! wink

 
 Posted:   Jan 22, 2014 - 11:02 AM   
 By:   LeHah   (Member)

That being said, it's such a tough call to make.

This is the first thing in this thread I entirely agree with.

I should note that the reason I picked the examples I have isn't to thumb my nose at the people who made it but so much as that they're so obvious to me because pretty much everything else I have is perfectly fine. I have something like 1,200 CDs and I've made examples of 2. So thats one in 600. An embarrassment of riches, no doubt and all because of the labels like Intrada, FSM, LLL, Perseverance, etc. Just wanted to be fair here: the fact I'm complaining should say more about myself than the work presented.

 
 Posted:   Jan 22, 2014 - 12:02 PM   
 By:   Shaun Rutherford   (Member)


Shaun wants all those 'highlights' that he's grown used to from the film over the past 20 years nice and separated, while Intrada discover all these longer cues that JNH originally wrote and that some producers and editors just dialled in and out during post at the time.
Since very few have heard the new CD yet, maybe Shaun (and others) will rejoice at how amazing the dialled out music is? Who knows?
I think people should maybe at least wait until they HAVE THE CD and have spun it before screaming rage at the machine! wink


All this talk of how JNH wrote/recorded long cues and I'm missing in-between bits that were dialed out is incorrect. While some of the cues I'm talking about are joined in the film, that is not the optimal presentation for an album (seriously, take a listen to the sample of the "Till Death Do Us Part" track--made up of I think three separate cues--and you'll hopefully hear what I'm talking about). The cues were recorded separately and have genuine beginnings and endings (as in, not the kind of non-endings Williams recorded for Temple Of Doom or Hook, where the tracks were meant to be edited together into a complete piece). Styling the album how an editor would mix it in the film does the score a disservice. My opinion! If no one else minds how Intrada is presenting this score (and others), that's totally fine. My connection to the score is different than yours. It's not Star Wars or anything, but all the same, Falling Down is an important score to my listening to this kind of music in the first place.

Anyway, when you all get the album, you can tell me to shove it (you can tell me to shove it now, actually!). Strangely hurt by SchiffyM making fun of me, too, but I guess I had it coming?

Shaun

 
 Posted:   Jan 22, 2014 - 12:05 PM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

Strangely hurt by SchiffyM making fun of me, too, but I guess I had it coming?

Never meant to hurt, Shaun! Sorry!

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 23, 2014 - 9:53 AM   
 By:   Gurth   (Member)

seriously, take a listen to the sample of the "Till Death Do Us Part" track--made up of I think three separate cues--and you'll hopefully hear what I'm talking about). The cues were recorded separately and have genuine beginnings and endings

A sincere thank you for posting this. You, Shaun, are a real film-music fan. My pre-order for Falling Down was cancelled. I didn’t buy Transformers for same reasons and I will be stop purchasing this SHIT by intrada.

Hey kendall, you “mr. 81 tracks”, you and jeff bond are the most RIDICULOUS here. Fuck you so much.

 
 Posted:   Jan 23, 2014 - 10:05 AM   
 By:   Shaun Rutherford   (Member)

Ugh, I know I started this, but I don't want to be associated with this kind of poster.

 
 Posted:   Jan 23, 2014 - 10:22 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

Ugh, I know I started this, but I don't want to be associated with this kind of poster.

The post above yours was from a troll who just signed up today. It's pretty obvious when ppl are trolling. They should change their tactics. LOL Don't worry about it.

 
 Posted:   Jan 23, 2014 - 10:24 AM   
 By:   David Sones (Allardyce)   (Member)

Gurth aka Nicola has been banned for the umpteenth time under his umpteenth IP, but I'm leaving his post because it's so freaking ridiculously hilarious.

 
 Posted:   Jan 23, 2014 - 10:26 AM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

Ugh, I know I started this, but I don't want to be associated with this kind of poster.

Don't beat yourself up. It's just Nicola again. His post (and this one) will soon be deleted.

And by the way, he's lying about purchasing and then canceling "Falling Down."

EDIT: Ah, I see it will stay! And so, I guess, will this. I just seem a bit less insightful.

 
 Posted:   Jan 23, 2014 - 10:51 AM   
 By:   David Sones (Allardyce)   (Member)

Shaun, if it would make you feel better to have Nicola's post blasted outta here, I'll do so. Just let me know. My selfish enjoyment of a giggle may be clouding my judgment. big grin

 
 Posted:   Jan 23, 2014 - 11:49 AM   
 By:   JeffM   (Member)

If all goes well, I will be ordering this CD tomorrow afternoon. big grin

 
 Posted:   Jan 23, 2014 - 12:10 PM   
 By:   Senn555   (Member)

I ordered mine Monday evening, along with a few clearance LLL titles listed here:
http://store.intrada.com/s.nl/sc.16/category.21765/.f

Oh, and I got Transformers in the mail a few days ago too.

Keep producing this SHIT, Intrada!

 
 Posted:   Jan 24, 2014 - 1:32 PM   
 By:   JeffM   (Member)

Ordered mine this morning. Can't wait to hear this shit!

 
 Posted:   Jan 24, 2014 - 2:13 PM   
 By:   Advise & Consent   (Member)

Got on board for this one immediately along with To Catch a Thief and Young Savages.

 
 Posted:   Feb 3, 2014 - 6:35 PM   
 By:   The Mutant   (Member)

Haven't stopped listening to this since I got it. Sounds superb. It's a great score to walk around the city with. So far haven't gotten into any fights.

Thanks Intrada!

 
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