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 Posted:   Feb 26, 2014 - 3:04 PM   
 By:   PFK   (Member)

PFK, you seem to be willfully ignoring what has been pointed out repeatedly in this thread. This is not -- that's the crucial word, so I will bold it and repeat it: not -- being marketed primarily to the film score audience. Sure, they'll be happy to take our money. But they are a classical label.


I thought you were going to say that he's willfully ignoring the fact that it's possible to download only what you want. Because he's doing that too.




You mean I can download a whole 7 minutes? Wow!

 
 Posted:   Feb 26, 2014 - 3:06 PM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

My guess is that Jungle Book is just as obscure as Sahara.

Actually, both "Thief of Bagdad" and "Jungle Book" are obscure films today, but they have name recognition, as much because the stories have been told many times in various media.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 26, 2014 - 3:15 PM   
 By:   PFK   (Member)

This well could be the last newly recorded Rozsa CD of his film scores we will ever see.

Why would you imagine that when we've been averaging a new recording every year for the last five years or so?




Because the CD producers have said so, that's why.

I'm talking Golden Age scores here, 1930 to 1960. John Morgan, James Fitzpatrick among others, have said the cost to record a golden age score keeps going up, the sales keep going down. Golden Age fans are a shrinking group. I doubt we will see any more newly recorded Golden Age scores from Tribute, Tadlow, Intrada, Varese etc. I hope I am wrong.

Chandos is a big classical label with the money to fund the forthcoming Rozsa CD. I understand Chandos is marketing this CD for a classical audience ..... it doesn't mean I have to like it!

By the way, I have most of the Chandos film score CDs and think they are excellent. You will note though, that most of what they have issued has not been newly recorded before.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 26, 2014 - 3:38 PM   
 By:   PFK   (Member)

For goodness' sake.


1. This is the BEST recording for ages, the sonics arfe perfect. Every instrument is as clear as a bell, and the sound is exquisitely mixed.

2. Chandos are a classical music label. They don't release specialist soundtracks to the afficionados, they release representative film score suites for the general recording, broadcasting and classical music audience, of composers whose work is worthy.

3. The 'Thief' 'dupe' is not a dupe. There is an extra track, the 'Sultan's Toys'.

4. How the hell is it all 'unnecessary'? The recording and performances and sound are vastly superior to all before it. If someone released another set of Brandenburg Concertos or 1812 Overture, would anyone think it 'unnecessary'? There's room for 1,000 of each, and this plants Rozsa's film and concert music right up there in the regular repertoire realm. That's going to do more good for his legacy than 100 small releases by fringe interest companies.




Could yeez all just step outside the tiny soundtrack fetish club for an instant and think strategically and sensibly. So one day you all want all your so-called 'grails' on your shelves. Is that the height of it? Does that matter to anyone but yourselves?


LISTEN TO THE BLOODY THING! The samples are available online, enlist with Chandos, and incidentally, the BBC Radio 3 classical station are broadcasting each suite this week.



They used to attack Chandos for their sonics. Now that the sonics are excellent, they find something else. Come to think on it, they used to attack 'Concorde' for its sonic boom. No-one attacked the Boeing SST for its sonic boom because there was never any money to build the damned thing. It's a Transatlantic world.

Is there a lesson I wonder?




"If someone released another set of Brandenburg Concertos ...... would it be unnecessary? "

YES! In fact, in 1987 I bought the Bach Brandenburg Concertos. I also bought around that time Handel's Water Music/Royal Fireworks, Vivaldi's The Four Seasons, Prokofiev's Alexander Nevsky & Ivan the Terrible etc. etc. These and others were all low-cost budget CDs and I'm very happy with them all. I only need ONE copy of each, NOT 50! I only want one CD to one musical work, then buy some DIFFERENT CDs. Sorry if that upsets you.

I'm not knocking Chandos or the high quality of this CD. I have most of their film score CDs and are very happy with them. I understand this is the safest move for Chandos in regards to CD sales. As I mentioned before, it doesn't mean I have to be pleased with these selections. Well ...... at least they didn't replace SAHARA with yet another "new & improved" Spellbound!

 
 Posted:   Feb 26, 2014 - 3:49 PM   
 By:   Sean Nethery   (Member)

My guess is that Jungle Book is just as obscure as Sahara.

Actually, both "Thief of Bagdad" and "Jungle Book" are obscure films today, but they have name recognition, as much because the stories have been told many times in various media.


Though I hesitate to disagree with one of the eminences of this board (I mean that sincerely), I think Amazon is a good bellwether of obscurity.

Search Thief of Bagdad and not only is the 1940 film first on the list, but you even get a "Related Searches: thief of bagdad 1940". Which means that people are searching for it.

Try Jungle Book, and the movie is there (though below the Varese soundtrack), but it's way down the list (obviously, given the Disney films and sequels).

So they may both be off the radar, but I think Thief is a lot better known, again, thinking only of the small segment of the population who care about this sort of thing. Meaning the kind of people who might pick up a Chandos release like this one.

But certainly not the music - that's obscure definitely for all three (including especially Sahara, of course). Present company excepted.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 26, 2014 - 5:19 PM   
 By:   PFK   (Member)

I am very excited and thrilled about this new Rozsa film music CD on Chandos. I have almost everything recorded by Rozsa, but it still excites me when a new fresh recording appears, regardless of the actual content. I will take it all- SOLD.

What is wrong with all these ungrateful people, headed by Mr. Caps.





Hey! Who put Joe Caps in charge of all the ungrateful people? mad

I want that moniker! smile

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 26, 2014 - 7:32 PM   
 By:   pp312   (Member)

PFK, you seem to be willfully ignoring what has been pointed out repeatedly in this thread. This is not -- that's the crucial word, so I will bold it and repeat it: not -- being marketed primarily to the film score audience. Sure, they'll be happy to take our money. But they are a classical label.


I thought you were going to say that he's willfully ignoring the fact that it's possible to download only what you want. Because he's doing that too.




You mean I can download a whole 7 minutes? Wow!


My point was that you're not being asked to pay for the whole CD to get that 7 minutes, which until recent years was the case. Now you've got 7 minutes of MR you didn't have before, which surely is cause for celebration. No? Then I give up!

 
 Posted:   Feb 26, 2014 - 8:50 PM   
 By:   Basil Wrathbone   (Member)

It's either worth getting or it isn't. Doesn't matter if some of its repertoire has appeared before, or if it's aimed at a classical or soundtrack audience.

Salonen's Herrmann suites CD was a top seller and sold to both classical and soundtrack buyers, because it was good. It didn't get complaints (as far as I recall) about it having yet another Psycho, or yet another Vertigo or Fahrenheit 451 or North by Northwest overture etc etc. But it got praise for presenting all of them very well indeed.

Conversely, Previn's Korngold effort was only popular with classical listeners because they were less familiar with the works and soundtrack aficionados were more aware of the deficiencies.

If some of Gamba's performances turn out to be regarded as the best versions to have, regardless of the familiarity of the track list, they should appeal to both classical and soundtrack buyers alike.




 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2014 - 9:42 AM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

[
"If someone released another set of Brandenburg Concertos ...... would it be unnecessary? "

YES! In fact, in 1987 I bought the Bach Brandenburg Concertos. I also bought around that time Handel's Water Music/Royal Fireworks, Vivaldi's The Four Seasons, Prokofiev's Alexander Nevsky & Ivan the Terrible etc. etc. These and others were all low-cost budget CDs and I'm very happy with them all. I only need ONE copy of each, NOT 50! I only want one CD to one musical work, then buy some DIFFERENT CDs. Sorry if that upsets you.





You're totally unaware of the key word 'I' in your argument, and its centrality. What about the other umpteen millions who have no recordings yet of a Brandenburg Concerto set, and who'd want one? The logic of your argument is that there should be only one definitive recording of a particular piece.

Are we to ignore the many nuances of performance, the many, many recordings that are perfection bar one small issue with the horns being too far back, or the woodwinds too piano?

So you have a Dyson vacuum cleaner. And that means I suppose that no more should be manufactured ever.

 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2014 - 11:34 AM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

Conversely, Previn's Korngold effort was only popular with classical listeners because they were less familiar with the works and soundtrack aficionados were more aware of the deficiencies.

What are the perceived deficiencies, Basil. Were they general or specific to any one of the four or five movies examined? I thought Gold Caravan, one of my favourite Ks for nuance, came out rather well.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2014 - 11:44 AM   
 By:   John B. Archibald   (Member)

At first, I was just as disenchanted at the prospect of this recording as Mr. Caps. But I saw but little point of broadcasting it here, preferring instead to spend my energy on other subjects.

Now, though, being a Rozsa fanatic, I'm probably going to get this, eventually, if only to see if there's any more material than what I've heard elsewhere.

For instance, does the SAHARA suite include any more music than what is on the Charles Gerhart HUMPHREY BOGART album? And I do love JUNGLE BOOK, though the THIEF suite seems to be a re-recording of what's been done elsewhere.

As for BEN-HUR, well, I love the score, but, in terms of this recording, I'm more interested in the other entries.

I'll be interested in what news I read about others' impressions of this CD.

 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2014 - 12:20 PM   
 By:   Basil Wrathbone   (Member)

Conversely, Previn's Korngold effort was only popular with classical listeners because they were less familiar with the works and soundtrack aficionados were more aware of the deficiencies.

What are the perceived deficiencies, Basil. Were they general or specific to any one of the four or five movies examined? I thought Gold Caravan, one of my favourite Ks for nuance, came out rather well.




Actually, I never disliked that album. At the time I was very happy to have suites of Captain Blood (better in my opinion than the dull Naxos one that came before) and Prince and the Pauper (which was welcome in the pre-Tribute recording days).
But almost everything I ever read about the disc in soundtrack circles was negative. I seem to recall The Sea Hawk being the prime target, and complaints of the whole CD being sluggish and uninspired. I suppose if one reads enough bad reviews it can influence one's own response. I haven't played it for a long time now. I think I'll do so in the next day or two and reassess it.

 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2014 - 12:24 PM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

Yes, I think I'll probably give it another listen, too. The furious pace of 'The Duels' was also very nicely done, IMHO.

 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2014 - 12:51 PM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

For instance, does the SAHARA suite include any more music than what is on the Charles Gerhart HUMPHREY BOGART album?.

If you register online at Chandos' site, you can hear detailed samples of the pieces. The 'Sahara' suite is the published 8 minute suite that Palmer assembled. The Gerhardt was not a suite, merely the title music with a repeat sign. The old broadcast suite (which is the same piece as Chandos are using) is on YouTube with an American orchestra.




I'll be interested in what news I read about others' impressions of this CD.

There's some chat over on the Rozsa board. All positive.

 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2014 - 12:58 PM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

Actually, I never disliked that album. At the time I was very happy to have suites of Captain Blood (better in my opinion than the dull Naxos one that came before) and Prince and the Pauper (which was welcome in the pre-Tribute recording days).
But almost everything I ever read about the disc in soundtrack circles was negative. I seem to recall The Sea Hawk being the prime target, and complaints of the whole CD being sluggish and uninspired. I suppose if one reads enough bad reviews it can influence one's own response. I haven't played it for a long time now. I think I'll do so in the next day or two and reassess it.



Actually, if you're a Korngold nut, the Previn 'Captain Blood' suite there has a cue, where Blood and his new pirate crew leave Port Royal after the capture and escape, which is nowhere else available, including certain unmentionable releases that left off that cue and accidentally included two of another! So it's indispensible.

The Naxos/Marco Polo one in Potsdam was a fine performance, but had far too much echo, due to the cavernous venue. The Scotch snaps in the Prelude disappear in a fuzz of reverb.


I liked that disc actually. It differed from the other performances, and was Previn's own take, obviously regarding the scoresheets as the sacred texts, not the film. But hey, that's why many recordings work. That's why they're needed. VARIETY. It was well received in the concert world, and publicised Erich very effectively.

 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2014 - 1:13 PM   
 By:   Sean Nethery   (Member)

I also enjoy the Previn Korngold release for the reasons stated. And I especially value the instrumental version of Freedom from The Sea Hawk. It's great to experience that purely as music without the hearty (and maybe just a bit over-complicated) singing of the crew.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2014 - 3:25 PM   
 By:   PFK   (Member)

[
"If someone released another set of Brandenburg Concertos ...... would it be unnecessary? "

YES! In fact, in 1987 I bought the Bach Brandenburg Concertos. I also bought around that time Handel's Water Music/Royal Fireworks, Vivaldi's The Four Seasons, Prokofiev's Alexander Nevsky & Ivan the Terrible etc. etc. These and others were all low-cost budget CDs and I'm very happy with them all. I only need ONE copy of each, NOT 50! I only want one CD to one musical work, then buy some DIFFERENT CDs. Sorry if that upsets you.





You're totally unaware of the key word 'I' in your argument, and its centrality. What about the other umpteen millions who have no recordings yet of a Brandenburg Concerto set, and who'd want one? The logic of your argument is that there should be only one definitive recording of a particular piece.

Are we to ignore the many nuances of performance, the many, many recordings that are perfection bar one small issue with the horns being too far back, or the woodwinds too piano?

So you have a Dyson vacuum cleaner. And that means I suppose that no more should be manufactured ever.




Hey William, I think you might find this story of interest:

Back in 1971 I knew a nice fellow named David. David collected both film scores and classical.

David told me the following in 1971: " With film scores you buy the (one) record, or you don't. With classical a music piece might have 50 records of the same music opus. I only buy one good, solid performance of the music, I don't want the other 49 records. I want different records in my collection, not duplicates of the same music."

David had well over 1,000 classical LPs and NO duplicates!

Maybe David and I were separated at birth? smile

In any event, I hope you enjoy the forthcoming Chandos Rozsa CD. smile

 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2014 - 3:55 PM   
 By:   George Komar   (Member)

David told me the following in 1971: " With film scores you buy the (one) record, or you don't. With classical a music piece might have 50 records of the same music opus. I only buy one good, solid performance of the music, I don't want the other 49 records. I want different records in my collection, not duplicates of the same music."

A perfectly acceptable practice.

But...

(1) Did David publicly get upset with the record store or with the classical record labels when he found a new recording of a work that he already owned?

(2) What did David do when he found a new recording of a work that he already owned that was coupled with a premiere recording of a piece that he did not yet own?

(3) What did David do when a new recording came along that out-performed or sonically blew the roof off a recording that he already owned?

(4) Did David ever purchase a CD of a work that he already owned on LP?

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2014 - 4:07 PM   
 By:   PFK   (Member)

David told me the following in 1971: " With film scores you buy the (one) record, or you don't. With classical a music piece might have 50 records of the same music opus. I only buy one good, solid performance of the music, I don't want the other 49 records. I want different records in my collection, not duplicates of the same music."

A perfectly acceptable practice.

But...

(1) Did David publicly get upset with the record store or with the classical record labels when he found a new recording of a work that he already owned?

(2) What did David do when he found a new recording of a work that he already owned that was coupled with a premiere recording of a piece that he did not yet own?

(3) What did David do when a new recording came along that out-performed or sonically blew the roof off a recording that he already owned?

(4) Did David ever purchase a CD of a work that he already owned on LP?




Who's publicly upset? mad ................ just giving my opinion guys. smile

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2014 - 9:30 PM   
 By:   pp312   (Member)

I want to know why David set out to cause all this trouble. smile

 
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