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Thanks, Onya, much appreciated 
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Just finished spinning.
The film cues definitely sound like they are from a stem; certainly not terrible, not great either. You hear some of the clunky edits that you hear in the film.
The vast majority of the film score was expanded - and improved - for the album. Ultimately, it is possible to burn a custom CD consisting of the entire album version with a few choice film-only cues sprinkled in.
I took notes about which film tracks correspond to certain album tracks. (The booklet does not address this). I will post these details later today or tomorrow.
Very happy to have this. Very worthwhile and long awaited!
It's always funny that people don't "get" that if there were stereo or even mono tapes for the score proper, someone would have done this long ago. This is the "new" thing - pulling these stems for these releases. There are, of course, a few things that were sitting in the MGM vault that were what they should have been - Missouri Breaks for example - but most of this kind of thing is stems all the way.
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It's always funny that people don't "get" that if there were stereo or even mono tapes for the score proper, someone would have done this long ago. This is the "new" thing - pulling these stems for these releases.
why would consumers assume or even know this? arent there stereo scores that have been (and still are) unavailable for reasons like copyright issues? I dunno if Quartet specified their source in the insert, but I dont think the average soundtrack consumer will know this stuff. Speaking for myself, of course. If they do know, maybe that makes me a below-average consumer.
Oh, I'm sure you know what a stem is. It's the music stem from the film itself and includes all the fade-ups and downs (which can be evened out - how well is dependent on who is doing the job) and contains any and all music edits that the film has. It has nothing to do with stereo and mono. It's that not much of this kind of thing was done when the limited edition soundtrack game started. It's like getting the complete Mad World soundtrack in mono from the rear channels of the laserdisc. If that makes people happy, great - it didn't make me happy, which is why I didn't issue it when it was offered to me.
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Oh, I'm sure you know what a stem is. It's the music stem from the film itself and includes all the fade-ups and downs (which can be evened out - how well is dependent on who is doing the job)
I more or less understand about stems from discussions about specific soundtrack releases (ie Colossus of New York, Hitchcock Hour). That's not actually the point. I was addressing the notion that we consumers should somehow know that's what we're getting simply because a soundtrack hasnt been released before. The product info should mention it, considering this is a niche market and consumers like to stay informed, rather than find out on their own.
Btw, I would much rather have volume-corrected stems than the lesser alternatives. By lesser, I mean ripping the music-only or music/fx tracks from videos (which I assume are not the same as "stems"). Or even simply editing movie audio into soundtracks. Consider the desperate fools who sink to those depths the next time you turn down a chance to release stems.
We've done, a couple of releases from stems - they were for things where no other album or rerecording existed. And yes, I agree, it should be part of the description or at least referenced in the notes, always.
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To be clear, we have released several titles from stems (Casino Royale, The Masque of the Red Death, The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes, War-Gods of the Deep, some cues of The Long Goodbye), as the only possible way to preserve these score after a thorough search of better sources and the inability to find other elements. And we have always explained thoroughly whether it was or was not a music stem. Working seriously with a music stem is one of the most complex and expensive forms that can exist, at least for us, and the albums that I mentioned before have sold extremely well, so it would be stupid from ours the no mention to the stem source, I think.
But the case of Thomas Crown is quite different. The film version are taken from a ¼ inch mono tape labeled as "Music Tracks" vaulted at MGM within a lot of different tapes containing the album versions in mono and stereo. No papers or titles inside.
Certainly could sound like a music stem, and probably was the purpose of this tape at some point, but the fact is that the cues were not ordered exactly as in the film, no fade-ups and down level changes inside and the track entitled “The Gang" was originally edited such as sound in our album. So, this case is very different from how we have always worked (and we are working for future releases) from the stems, which comes from the D/M/E of the film, and you have to adjust levels due to fade-ups and down level of dialogues and effects.
As always, many audio samples are available in our website to allow customers to check the quality, and I must say that the sound of the mono tracks in this album are pretty warm. When we took the rights to release Thomas Crown, two years ago, our first intention was to release only the remastered album re-recording (as we did with The Knack), but the surprise appearance of this mysterious tape made us rethink the project, and I think it was worth it. And both MGM and Michel Legrand itself are quite happy with the result of being able to save the original tracks.
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To be clear, we have released several titles from stems (Casino Royale, The Masque of the Red Death, The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes, War-Gods of the Deep, some cues of The Long Goodbye), as the only possible way to preserve these score after a thorough search of better sources and the inability to find other elements. And we have always explained thoroughly whether it was or was not a music stem. Working seriously with a music stem is one of the most complex and expensive forms that can exist, at least for us, and the albums that I mentioned before have sold extremely well, so it would be stupid from ours the no mention to the stem source, I think.
But the case of Thomas Crown is quite different. The film version are taken from a ¼ inch mono tape labeled as "Music Tracks" vaulted at MGM within a lot of different tapes containing the album versions in mono and stereo. No papers or titles inside.
Certainly could sound like a music stem, and probably was the purpose of this tape at some point, but the fact is that the cues were not ordered exactly as in the film, no fade-ups and down level changes inside and the track entitled “The Gang" was originally edited such as sound in our album. So, this case is very different from how we have always worked (and we are working for future releases) from the stems, which comes from the D/M/E of the film, and you have to adjust levels due to fade-ups and down level of dialogues and effects.
As always, many audio samples are available in our website to allow customers to check the quality, and I must say that the sound of the mono tracks in this album are pretty warm. When we took the rights to release Thomas Crown, two years ago, our first intention was to release only the remastered album re-recording (as we did with The Knack), but the surprise appearance of this mysterious tape made us rethink the project, and I think it was worth it. And both MGM and Michel Legrand itself are quite happy with the result of being able to save the original tracks.
Was this tape 7 1/2 ips. If so, we had the same thing on How to Murder Your Wife.
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Posted: |
Jun 22, 2014 - 12:40 AM
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By: |
OnyaBirri
(Member)
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Being that this is one of my favorite film scores ever, I am planning to create a customized playlist including all of the music but avoiding repetition between the film and album tracks. I will share my notes regarding repeated music between the film cues and album presentation. If you are interested, this will help you program a "complete" program with minimal repetition.
The LP includes generally more developed versions of the cues. They also offer better fidelity. So, whenever music is repeated, I am defaulting to the LP versions.
So, I offer the following with the assumption that tracks 1-13 - the album - will be included.
So then here are the film tracks:
#14 - Windmills by Noel Harrison: Different arrangement from the film; you can decide if you need it.
#15 - Knock Knock: This is "Room Service." Unnecessary.
#16 - The Gang: This is the bank robbery music. It is the the "His Eyes" theme played over what is essentially a passage from Le Sacre du Printemps. I can see why Michel left this off of the LP, in going for a particular mood, but this is ESSENTIAL.
#17 - Getaway: A moody track, not on the LP. You want this.
#18 - Escapeline: This is "Cash & Carry." You don't need it.
#19 - Cemetery: Similar to #17. Not on the LP, you may want to combine it with #17.
#20 - More Cemetery: This begins with the bridge to "Cash & Carry," with Michel scatting, but in a mid tempo swing groove, and then segueing into "The Crowning Touch." Not on the LP, strictly speaking, but you may want to include it.
#21 - Enter Vicky: A jazz waltz, not on the LP. God, I wish Michel had developed this into a full-length piece. You need this.
#22 - Windmills - short version by Noel, similar arrangement to LP, you can decide if you need it.
#23 - Polo - This is "Playing the Field." You don't need it.
#24 - Brandy - This is "A Man's Castle." You don't need it.
#25 - Chess Anyone? This is "Chess Game." You don't need it.
#26 - Let's Play Something Else - This begins with the "His Eyes" bridge, arranged in a similar fashion to "Doubting Thomas," with the strings featured, and then segueing into a jazz waltz. Not on the LP; you can decide how important it is. I am keeping it.
#27 - Togetherness - This is "Doubting Thomas." You don't need it.
#28 - Don't Bug Me - This is "The Boston Wrangler." You don't need it.
#29 - Beach House - This is "Moments of Love." You don't need it.
#30 - Love Montage - This is combination of the bridge to "Doubting Thomas," "Playing the Field," and "The Crowning Touch." Not needed.
#31 - No Deals - For anyone who has listened to any of the recent Mancini film score releases, e.g., Charade, Days of Wine, Breakfast, this is a TOTALLY Mancini cue, beginning with low woodwinds playing a dissonant melody, building with overlapping dissonant melodies played by low strings, working to a climax, and ending with piano and vibes hitting an ambiguous chord. Totally Mancini. You want this track.
#32 - All My Love, Tommy - This is "The Crowning Touch." You don't need it.
Well, there you have it. Hope I made your life easier and spared you some work.
I will soon post my ultimate Thomas Crown track list, using the album tracks, essential film cues, and substituting the dreaded Noel Harrison with Dusty Springfield and Michel (in French).
Hope this is helpful.
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To be clear, we have released several titles from stems (Casino Royale, The Masque of the Red Death, The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes, War-Gods of the Deep, some cues of The Long Goodbye), as the only possible way to preserve these score after a thorough search of better sources and the inability to find other elements. And we have always explained thoroughly whether it was or was not a music stem. Working seriously with a music stem is one of the most complex and expensive forms that can exist, at least for us, and the albums that I mentioned before have sold extremely well, so it would be stupid from ours the no mention to the stem source, I think.
But the case of Thomas Crown is quite different. The film version are taken from a ¼ inch mono tape labeled as "Music Tracks" vaulted at MGM within a lot of different tapes containing the album versions in mono and stereo. No papers or titles inside.
Certainly could sound like a music stem, and probably was the purpose of this tape at some point, but the fact is that the cues were not ordered exactly as in the film, no fade-ups and down level changes inside and the track entitled “The Gang" was originally edited such as sound in our album. So, this case is very different from how we have always worked (and we are working for future releases) from the stems, which comes from the D/M/E of the film, and you have to adjust levels due to fade-ups and down level of dialogues and effects.
As always, many audio samples are available in our website to allow customers to check the quality, and I must say that the sound of the mono tracks in this album are pretty warm. When we took the rights to release Thomas Crown, two years ago, our first intention was to release only the remastered album re-recording (as we did with The Knack), but the surprise appearance of this mysterious tape made us rethink the project, and I think it was worth it. And both MGM and Michel Legrand itself are quite happy with the result of being able to save the original tracks.
Was this tape 7 1/2 ips. If so, we had the same thing on How to Murder Your Wife.
Not exactly, How to Murder… sounds like the original mono recording with the complete takes, Thomas Crown contains the same edits as in the film (except for "The Gang"). Maybe was taken from the stem before the final mix, I don't know, probably we may never know.
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How to Murder… sounds like the original mono recording with the complete takes, Thomas Crown contains the same edits as in the film.
So Thomas Crown is not " the entire original recording presented from mono elements", as originally described.
Rather, it's actually "an edited version of the original recording".
No weird edits on this score, I mean that the length is the same as in the film.
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Posted: |
Jun 22, 2014 - 2:37 AM
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By: |
chriss
(Member)
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To be clear, we have released several titles from stems (Casino Royale, The Masque of the Red Death, The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes, War-Gods of the Deep, some cues of The Long Goodbye), as the only possible way to preserve these score after a thorough search of better sources and the inability to find other elements. And we have always explained thoroughly whether it was or was not a music stem. Working seriously with a music stem is one of the most complex and expensive forms that can exist, at least for us, and the albums that I mentioned before have sold extremely well, so it would be stupid from ours the no mention to the stem source, I think.
I own all of those releases and I like them very much, Thomas Crown is on its way from Quartet.
I hope you continue to release CDs using this sources for otherwise "lost" scores. Something like Grusin's Fuzz or Goldsmith's Pursuit come to mind. Hopefully something releasable can be found here!
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Being that this is one of my favorite film scores ever, I am planning to create a customized playlist including all of the music but avoiding repetition between the film and album tracks. I will share my notes regarding repeated music between the film cues and album presentation. If you are interested, this will help you program a "complete" program with minimal repetition.
The LP includes generally more developed versions of the cues. They also offer better fidelity. So, whenever music is repeated, I am defaulting to the LP versions.
So, I offer the following with the assumption that tracks 1-13 - the album - will be included.
So then here are the film tracks:
#14 - Windmills by Noel Harrison: Different arrangement from the film; you can decide if you need it.
#15 - Knock Knock: This is "Room Service." Unnecessary.
#16 - The Gang: This is the bank robbery music. It is the the "His Eyes" theme played over what is essentially a passage from Le Sacre du Printemps. I can see why Michel left this off of the LP, in going for a particular mood, but this is ESSENTIAL.
#17 - Getaway: A moody track, not on the LP. You want this.
#18 - Escapeline: This is "Cash & Carry." You don't need it.
#19 - Cemetery: Similar to #17. Not on the LP, you may want to combine it with #17.
#20 - More Cemetery: This begins with the bridge to "Cash & Carry," with Michel scatting, but in a mid tempo swing groove, and then segueing into "The Crowning Touch." Not on the LP, strictly speaking, but you may want to include it.
#21 - Enter Vicky: A jazz waltz, not on the LP. God, I wish Michel had developed this into a full-length piece. You need this.
#22 - Windmills - short version by Noel, similar arrangement to LP, you can decide if you need it.
#23 - Polo - This is "Playing the Field." You don't need it.
#24 - Brandy - This is "A Man's Castle." You don't need it.
#25 - Chess Anyone? This is "Chess Game." You don't need it.
#26 - Let's Play Something Else - This begins with the "His Eyes" bridge, arranged in a similar fashion to "Doubting Thomas," with the strings featured, and then segueing into a jazz waltz. Not on the LP; you can decide how important it is. I am keeping it.
#27 - Togetherness - This is "Doubting Thomas." You don't need it.
#28 - Don't Bug Me - This is "The Boston Wrangler." You don't need it.
#29 - Beach House - This is "Moments of Love." You don't need it.
#30 - Love Montage - This is combination of the bridge to "Doubting Thomas," "Playing the Field," and "The Crowning Touch." Not needed.
#31 - No Deals - For anyone who has listened to any of the recent Mancini film score releases, e.g., Charade, Days of Wine, Breakfast, this is a TOTALLY Mancini cue, beginning with low woodwinds playing a dissonant melody, building with overlapping dissonant melodies played by low strings, working to a climax, and ending with piano and vibes hitting an ambiguous chord. Totally Mancini. You want this track.
#32 - All My Love, Tommy - This is "The Crowning Touch." You don't need it.
Well, there you have it. Hope I made your life easier and spared you some work.
I will soon post my ultimate Thomas Crown track list, using the album tracks, essential film cues, and substituting the dreaded Noel Harrison with Dusty Springfield and Michel (in French).
Hope this is helpful.
Re # 31, Mancini was the first choice for this but was too busy and recommended Legrand
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Due to a huge demand, we have reached an agreement with MGM to press a small additional units for those who missed it. Don't miss the opportunity this time!. Available for order now!
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