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Posted: |
Sep 17, 2003 - 6:49 PM
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By: |
cawriter
(Member)
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Alien was apparently derived from an AE Van Vogt story - or stories. I've seen references to several, all with different names: Dark Destroyer (aka Black Destroyer), Voyage of the Space Beagle, and Discord In Scarlet (nice title).
Can anyone clear it up?
A.E. Van Vogt's story Black Destroyer appeared in the July 1939 issue of Astounding Science Fiction It was his first published work. The creature Coeurl - the last survivor of a planet's advanced civilization - is discovered by the space exploration ship Space Beagle and taken aboard. Naturally, Coeurl isn't the dumb creature the men take him for but a cunning, intelligent cat-like creature - and before long Coeurl's wreaking havoc aboard the ship, which he's trying to take over. The crew of the Space Beagle eventually trick the creature into killing itself and the day is saved.
Discord in Scarlet apeared in the December 1939 ASF and this time the Space Beagle runs into Ixtl, a scarlet, tentacled thing - the last survivor of its race that has been drifting in space for eons - that needs a host to harbor its single remaining egg. It implants the egg in a human and then the race is on to save the host and the Space Beagle and eliminate poor 'ol Ixtl. Which is done, of course.
Van Vogt's novel The Voyage of the Space Beagle incorporated these two stories in addition to M33 In Andromeda along with new material.
Alien's family tree extends back to A.E. Van Vogt, Astounding Science Fiction, It,The Terror from Beyond Space and Agatha Christie's And Then There Were None, made into a great film in 1945 by Rene Clair with a score - to keep this somewhat on the film music track - by Castelnuovo-Tedesco.
Craig
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I, too, think that ALIEN is the better film. Regarding the tinkered-with Goldsmith score, I feel Goldsmith's intended version is preferable, with one exception: I've played "The Shaft" from the record against its intended images, but it doesn't seem as creepy as the FREUD extract that Scott used instead.
Check out the 20th anniversary DVD,Les. It has the original Goldsmith score on an iso track temped to the film(sans dialog, of course).
Bruce r
My one major criticism of the film is that after all those unnerving half-seen glimpses of the creature, when you couldn't even make out its overall shape, you finally wind up with the old man-in-a-rubber-suit ploy. The most frightening thing about the film was, and still is, Ash.
That's why I said,in an earlier post, I prefer ALIENS. more aliens, better realized.
Bruce r
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A.E. Van Vogt's story Black Destroyer appeared in the July 1939 issue of Astounding Science Fiction It was his first published work. The creature Coeurl - the last survivor of a planet's advanced civilization - is discovered by the space exploration ship Space Beagle and taken aboard. Naturally, Coeurl isn't the dumb creature the men take him for but a cunning, intelligent cat-like creature - and before long Coeurl's wreaking havoc aboard the ship, which he's trying to take over. The crew of the Space Beagle eventually trick the creature into killing itself and the day is saved.
Discord in Scarlet apeared in the December 1939 ASF and this time the Space Beagle runs into Ixtl, a scarlet, tentacled thing - the last survivor of its race that has been drifting in space for eons - that needs a host to harbor its single remaining egg. It implants the egg in a human and then the race is on to save the host and the Space Beagle and eliminate poor 'ol Ixtl. Which is done, of course.
Van Vogt's novel The Voyage of the Space Beagle incorporated these two stories in addition to M33 In Andromeda along with new material.
Alien's family tree extends back to A.E. Van Vogt, Astounding Science Fiction, It,The Terror from Beyond Space and Agatha Christie's And Then There Were None, made into a great film in 1945 by Rene Clair with a score - to keep this somewhat on the film music track - by Castelnuovo-Tedesco.
Craig
Craig, did IT,THE TERROR FROM BEYOND SPACE (written by jerome Bixby) credit Vogt as a story source? If not, did he ever object/sue?
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Alien derives from a cheesy predictable B movie screenplay by Dan O'Bannon that he went around complaining about to those SF mags I used to read because his "original vision" was ruined by the producers, who were also writers Walter Hill and David Giler. Unfortunately Hill and Giler are highly accomplished writers who made their rewrite harder, stronger, and quite original within the precepts of the genre-- they made the protagonist a woman and gave each character an identity and character and realistic dialog, and captured that 70s nihilism with aplomb. But that's what everyone always writes about this movie-- SORRY!
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Posted: |
Sep 19, 2003 - 2:13 AM
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By: |
cawriter
(Member)
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Craig, did IT,THE TERROR FROM BEYOND SPACE (written by jerome Bixby) credit Vogt as a story source? If not, did he ever object/sue?
Well, Bruce r, here's what I know [blatant plug here: this is from the Alien chapter in my book Science Fiction Films of the Seventies, available from Amazon, B&N, Borders and the usual suspects. Published by McFarland as part of their "Classics" line. End of self serving plug] about Alien and It!:
"Regarding the It!/Alien controversy, Jerome Bixby,author of the screenplay for It! says the following: 'As for the flap over Alien and It!...In Alien and my story, the creature 1)is virtually invulnerable; 2)hides in the ventilation-system; 3)drives the ship's small crew this way and that, gobbling them one by one with contempt for every obstacle; 4)is zapped by asphyxiation in space at the end. I understand that a degree of affectionate homage was paid to It! during preparation of Alien...When all the ruckus started, my first reaction was blank astonishment that anyone even remembered the film [It!]. The clamor grew for a year: articles, letters, point-by-point comparisons, accusations, candid statements by some associated with Alien that they'd had to jerk the story around and invent differences so it would appear less derivative. Maybe that was the genesis of Ash, the robot science-officer, a silly touch in an otherwise stunning picture. Oh yes, I enjoyed Alien thoroughtly, all else aside.' (Interview in Fangoria #25-1983).
"As the seven-person crew of the space freighter/refinery ship Nostromo slug it out with the slimy minion from the unknown, certain characteristics become clear, one of the most important being: we've seen this before. Not only is the concept familiar but this particular story seems to be...Alien is derivitive, of that there can be no doubt. It borrows from [Hawks'] The Thing, It! The Terror from Beyond Space, and [Mario Bava's]Planet of the Vampires...Ideas are also culled from A.E.Van Vogt's Black Destroyer and Discord in Scarlet...As a matter of fact, Alien caused such a black discord in Van Vogt's life that he successfully sued and won a case against 20th Century-Fox wherein he claimed that Alien stole his ideas without paying him."
After the book was published, Jerry Bixby called me, said he'd read my book and thought I'd like additional information about Van Vogt. He and Van Vogt had known each other for years and, Jerry said, because they were in the science fiction writers fraternity A.E. overlooked the simularities between his stories and Jerry's script for It! but when Alien was in the works, that was too much for Van Vogt and he sued.
Jerry and I corresponded and had phone conversations over the years. A very nice man. He was also a trained pianist and he told me during one conversation that he was transcribing Goldsmith's score for Alien to piano, as he'd done with other film scores he liked, so he could enjoy the music by playing it himself at home.
Craig
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Craig, did IT,THE TERROR FROM BEYOND SPACE (written by jerome Bixby) credit Vogt as a story source? If not, did he ever object/sue?
Well, Bruce r, here's what I know [blatant plug here: this is from the Alien chapter in my book Science Fiction Films of the Seventies, available from Amazon, B&N, Borders and the usual suspects. Published by McFarland as part of their "Classics" line. End of self serving plug] about Alien and It!:
"Regarding the It!/Alien controversy, Jerome Bixby,author of the screenplay for It! says the following: 'As for the flap over Alien and It!...In Alien and my story, the creature 1)is virtually invulnerable; 2)hides in the ventilation-system; 3)drives the ship's small crew this way and that, gobbling them one by one with contempt for every obstacle; 4)is zapped by asphyxiation in space at the end. I understand that a degree of affectionate homage was paid to It! during preparation of Alien...When all the ruckus started, my first reaction was blank astonishment that anyone even remembered the film [It!]. The clamor grew for a year: articles, letters, point-by-point comparisons, accusations, candid statements by some associated with Alien that they'd had to jerk the story around and invent differences so it would appear less derivative. Maybe that was the genesis of Ash, the robot science-officer, a silly touch in an otherwise stunning picture. Oh yes, I enjoyed Alien thoroughtly, all else aside.' (Interview in Fangoria #25-1983).
"As the seven-person crew of the space freighter/refinery ship Nostromo slug it out with the slimy minion from the unknown, certain characteristics become clear, one of the most important being: we've seen this before. Not only is the concept familiar but this particular story seems to be...Alien is derivitive, of that there can be no doubt. It borrows from [Hawks'] The Thing, It! The Terror from Beyond Space, and [Mario Bava's]Planet of the Vampires...Ideas are also culled from A.E.Van Vogt's Black Destroyer and Discord in Scarlet...As a matter of fact, Alien caused such a black discord in Van Vogt's life that he successfully sued and won a case against 20th Century-Fox wherein he claimed that Alien stole his ideas without paying him."
After the book was published, Jerry Bixby called me, said he'd read my book and thought I'd like additional information about Van Vogt. He and Van Vogt had known each other for years and, Jerry said, because they were in the science fiction writers fraternity A.E. overlooked the simularities between his stories and Jerry's script for It! but when Alien was in the works, that was too much for Van Vogt and he sued.
Jerry and I corresponded and had phone conversations over the years. A very nice man. He was also a trained pianist and he told me during one conversation that he was transcribing Goldsmith's score for Alien to piano, as he'd done with other film scores he liked, so he could enjoy the music by playing it himself at home.
Craig
Thanks Craig. will be sure to look for your book.
It's funny, when I first saw ALIEN i was accompanied by my film school friend, who, like me,was a big sf fan.
As the movie unfolded, we kept whispering back and forth, pointing out all the sf movies that were being "borrowed" from. You mentioned a few of them.
Still, it's a heck of a good film.
Bruce r
SF, CA
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The Burke scene was filmed, but James Cameron will not let it be shown.
The release date for ALIEN was pushed up to today, October 29.
Neil
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Posted: |
Nov 2, 2003 - 5:35 PM
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By: |
Howard L
(Member)
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Mission accomplished.
It's playing at a handful of theatres in the area and fortunately I chose a good one Halloween night. Man, I had no idea how much of the film I had never seen until this screening. There were times, too, that I had to remind myself the flick's over 20 years old and the actors do not look like this today. And how much so many of them have done since the actual premiere!
The score was another example of the usual above-average Goldsmith effort. He has such a distinctive flair for aural ricochets, orchestral tick-tocks and slicing strings. I mean these are not his sole province, per se, but the 'sound' is his and it's a sound that again for me derives from the Twilight Zone stage early in his career. Don't get me wrong; I don't consider the soundtrack, at least at this time, as a candidate for stand alone purchase. I simply rave at its unobtrusive but intrinsically powerful effect at creating and sustaining moods of dread and mystery. Even the music at the picture's climax sounded something like subdued triumph, as if to say she made it but who's really in the mood to celebrate what with what has transpired over the last 2 hours.
Now I am going to have to go back over this thread and perhaps respond to items, but in the meantime let me run the risk of redundancy by first stating how much I loved the opening frames that established the breadth of Nostromo. What a teaser in that the ship's corridors look immense and all but the thrust of the film winds up a claustrophobic nightmare. So much space for the creature to slink through but hardly enough space for the crew to catch its breath! Ian Holm looked, at times, like Glenn Ford (with maybe a touch of Tom Laughlin) and until the Big Revelation his character appeared to be a clear Dr. Carrington derivative. Outstanding bit of trickery there, totally fooled me.
On that note--yes, the IT! and Thing elements were very pronounced from the tracking blips to what's behind-the-closed-doors. The late scene alone of the cocooned Dallas and Britt (sp.?), however, was more than enough to overcome any critical misgivings. It's a classic horror scene IMHO (okay, I saw something like it in a "Giant Leeches" 50s B-flick but who gives a damn). And thankfully, John Hurt's hilarious self-parody in Spaceballs: The Movie proved a distant wisp when the unforgettable dinner table segment unfolded.
Oh, that reminds me: I got home and in a surreal bit of happenstance came upon Encore channel's presentation of Aliens. So I made it a double feature. I had seen the sequel in its theatrical run and found it a rollicking bit of entertainment in a highly stylized space cowboys & Indians popcorn way. It seemed a fine thing on its own. By the time I was finished this night, however, it came off as an overblown politically correct cartoon that absolutely unequivocally pales in comparison to its predecessor.
In other words, the difference between a film and a movie.
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I didn't get to see it because some dumbass at Fox decided it wouldn't stand up to "the most exciting and entertaining films this year" that are already dropping from the charts, so it didn't go wide.
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I managed to see the ALIEN Director's Cut here in Minnesota last night, and I was VERY pleased with it. The additional footage is quite revealing, and answered at least ONE nagging question I've always had with the movie.
And, it's unquestionably the best film I've seen in a theater this year. (And, by my count, I've seen 91 so far!)
NP: Battle Beyond the Stars/James Horner
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