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Spartacus isn't that good
Yes it is.
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Spartacus is a terrific film and score. North ushered in a style of music that was complex and largely dissonant. He also wrote what some of us call "busy" music. Music that was heavily contrapuntal and had a lot of changing meters and such. It wasn't wall paper and demanded attention. Some might think this is the antithesis of a good film score but at one point, filmmakers wanted their composers to support their projects with brash, bold music.
I prefer Spartacus to Ben Hur personally. Doesn't mean Ben Hur is bad. It's just not my preference.
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Posted: |
Dec 9, 2012 - 10:05 PM
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By: |
pp312
(Member)
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Spartacus isn't that good....Maybe it's becaurse the film itself isn't that good either....
Compared to...? Anything North, or anything else?
Ben-Hur is superior...
Compared to Spartacus?
Different films, different scores, different flavours. Both FABULOUS... films and scores.
:-)
Firstly, even if the film wasn't that good, which it is, that has no relationship to the music. Some of the worst films have drawn some of the best scores from composers.
Otherwise, as the above post says, they're both great films, very different but about equally praiseworthy. As Charlton Heston once said, "Why this need to compare?" In any case such a comparison is irrelevant to this thread, whose purpose is to bash the Dragonslayer score.
Oh no, hang on.....
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I prefer Spartacus to Ben Hur personally. Doesn't mean Ben Hur is bad. It's just not my preference.
"Oysters? Not oysters AND snails?" 
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Posted: |
Dec 10, 2012 - 11:11 PM
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By: |
pp312
(Member)
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Are you saying you don't consider it a matter of taste?
PP312, you need to make it clear who you are talking to when you ask a question. Otherwise it's confusing.
And if it WAS directed at me, please tell me where in my original post did I say it was a matter of taste at all?
I'll save you the trouble. I DIDN'T say it. Others did.
If you were paying attention to my metaphor at all, you would have understood my meaning that (to continue using the same metaphor) preferring chocolate ice cream over vanilla ice cream does not make vanilla ice cream bad. It was only incidental that my metaphor used food. My original post was in agreement with your opinion that comparisons are pointless. How you managed to take that as an offense it anybody's guess, but I am assuming (hopefully) that you still feel that the comparison is pointless.
I'll be clear. I'm referring to this sentence: "I guess "Dragonslayer" is a challenge to some, but not to those of us that are up to a challenge." And the reason I took offence is that from the beginning of this thread there's been a clear implication--a whiff of atonal elitism if you will--that those who "get" this score are the musically advanced, prepared-to-take-on-a-challenge pioneers, and those who don't are the muffheads who can't handle anything with any real meat that doesn't have a good tune or two. I don't suggest you were thinking that when you wrote the sentence, but unfortunately it comes across that way. For the record, I have no opinion of the music as music; it just leaves me cold. My objection to it is that it has nothing to do with what's going on on screen, but rather sounds like a radio playing in another room. In the right picture (probably something along the lines of "Reign Of Fire") it might work well. In this Disney fantasy it doesn't.
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Posted: |
Dec 11, 2012 - 12:13 AM
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By: |
Octoberman
(Member)
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I'll be clear. I'm referring to this sentence: "I guess "Dragonslayer" is a challenge to some, but not to those of us that are up to a challenge." And the reason I took offence is that from the beginning of this thread there's been a clear implication--a whiff of atonal elitism if you will--that those who "get" this score are the musically advanced, prepared-to-take-on-a-challenge pioneers, and those who don't are the muffheads who can't handle anything with any real meat that doesn't have a good tune or two. I don't suggest you were thinking that when you wrote the sentence, but unfortunately it comes across that way. For the record, I have no opinion of the music as music; it just leaves me cold. My objection to it is that it has nothing to do with what's going on on screen, but rather sounds like a radio playing in another room. In the right picture (probably something along the lines of "Reign Of Fire") it might work well. In this Disney fantasy it doesn't.
Well, in my own experience over the years I have come across many pieces of music in which I found that the effort I put into listening to it did not equal the joy I got out of it. In other words, it didn't immediately reward upon the listening. It was only later on (and, in some cases, MUCH later on) that I came to appreciate and treasure a lot of those works because I became ready to enjoy them. Sort of like the old saying, "When the pupil is ready, the master will appear". That's what I was trying to get across. Of course, not every difficult piece of music takes on a later luster, but I find it happens more often than not.
And don't forget, my main original point was that making comparisons between radically different pieces of music is a futile endeavor. Debating individual musical taste is even MORE futile, which is why I was only commenting on the comparison aspect of this topic.
It's my opinion that "Dragonslayer" needs time for it to work it's charms. If it does eventually weave a spell on a listener, then great. If not, that's fine too, but the score should at the very least be respected for taking the road less travelled.
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Posted: |
Dec 11, 2012 - 2:28 AM
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By: |
pp312
(Member)
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That's fair enough, but I'm not disputing the quality of the music, only its suitability to this film. Interestingly enough, I've been taking a close look recently at the film "The Silver Chalice" (for no good reason I can think of). Putting aside its other myriad faults, it happens to have very bizarre set design and decoration, like an experimental opera, half art deco, half futuristic and nothing to do with ancient Rome. I daresay someone on the production thought he was being daring and taking the road less travelled, but he was simply delivering the coup-de-grace to a film already mortally wounded by bad dialogue and acting. It's not enough merely to be daring and innovative; in any art form you have to be appropriate, and the moment a significant number of people start to think, "Hang on, that doesn't look/sound right..." you're in trouble. Doesn't matter if your creation is a masterpiece, you're still in trouble. I suggest that enough people thought that about Dragonslayer's score (as witnessed by this and the original thread) to put a large question mark over North's approach.
Interestingly, there's another thread here about 2001 where someone questions North's approach to the (ultimately rejected) score. I don't think just because a guy's very talented that he automatically gauges everything correctly. Even Rozsa, a dramaturgical genius in my book, got it wrong a few times.
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