I agree with both Mike and the Deputy, but if the climate of filmmaking is eschewing themes, I feel like there should be at least something to hang my hat on (did I just read someone else write that?). Something like KNOWING, which Mike mentioned, has some superb cues (that "New York" cue is essential if you're into non-threatening people watching), but even though I've listened to stuff like "Caleb Leaves" a million times, I can't begin to tell you how it goes.
I don't know that I completely buy the climate of filmmaking argument, at least in the case of Beltrami. I always think of that story told by Guillermo del Toro about his relationship with Beltrami, how GDT was constantly having to push him to go bigger and broader with his themes, wear his heart on his sleeve. I wonder if that's why GDT eventually stopped working with Beltrami. Not for nothing, GDT's influence helped foster my favorite Beltrami score, HELLBOY.
He writes effective, often fascinating music, but I just don't think, after listening to many, many Beltrami scores, that he's all that interested in big themes. Maybe it just bores him.
Of course, having never met the man, maybe that's just as specious an argument.
P.S. For what it's worth, I really appreciate that this is a thoughtful debate and not a mud slinging jamboree (which I'm totally down for if Rutherford brings the moonshine).
Beltrami always wrote great themes, even in films where he goes themeless, he always manages to write a great thematic piece (World War Z, Warm Bodies, Flight Of The Phoenix, The Wolverine, Snowpiercer, Max Payne).
Warm Bodies and Snowpiercer are definitely not films where Beltrami went "themeless".
P.S. For what it's worth, I really appreciate that this is a thoughtful debate and not a mud slinging jamboree (which I'm totally down for if Rutherford brings the moonshine).
Please watch Behind The Score with composer Marco Beltrami as he and director, Tommy Lee Jones, talk about, THE HOMESMAN! Available digitally on 11/17/14 and CD on 12/9/14.
Man, I am so excited for this film and this score! Tommy Lee Jones's first film, The Three Burials of Melquiades Estrada, was a modern masterpiece and Beltrami's score supported it beautifully...I have no doubt this one will be similiarly brilliant on both counts.
I do wish Beltrami could get a chance to score a more traditional all-out thematic sweeping western score one of these days. He did get close during some of 3:10 to Yuma but not quite there.
I too am excited to hear the whole score and see this movie.
I kind of agree with Shaun, Deputy and Yavar. Beltrami does compose some very good themes, and I imagine what he composes is up to the directors’ wishes. On the other hand, I think he hasn’t yet composed a truly memorable, iconic theme that those who DON’T collect film scores would recognize because he hasn’t been given a film calling for such a theme.
Let me explain that statement. If I wanted to introduce lay people, not people like us, to film scores, I’d tell them they are already VERY familiar with many scores. Then I’d play scores they would almost all recognize. Lay people just don’t realize how familiar they are with scores until they hear those iconic themes. First I’d play the 007 Bond theme followed by the Pink Panther theme. Next would be Rocky and Williams’ Superman and Jaws. Note that all of those memorable themes capture a certain person or hero and a nasty shark. If you want a memorable theme that all would recognize and recall a group in a motion picture, play Star Wars and The Magnificent Seven. If they are older, play Dr. Zhivago’s love theme and the theme from Gone With The Wind.
There is a cute joke I tell that involves me humming the Indiana Jones theme. None of my friends collect scores, but they all recognize that Indy Jones theme.
I want to see Beltrami get a picture that calls for such themes as listed above. I wonder what he would have done if he’d been given the new Superman? Also, themes become memorable because of sequels and repetition. We’ve seen lots of Star Wars’ sequels and Rocky sequels and a gazillion Bond movies. If there are some novels out there like Hunger Games, Potter books, of LOTR books that are going to have three or more films, I hope Beltrami gets to score those scripts. If given the right movies, he may just give us those instantly recognizable, memorable and iconic themes we love and that even the general public recognize.
You are right, BUT there are some major points that helped to make those film scores so memorable - first their material was in many cases developed throughout more films and ALSO became part of the culture thanks to their use in another media. Wasn't Mag 7 theme used in some Marlboro commercials back then? Many of these films and scores are constantly being referenced in other films and media, with parodies and rip offs going on for many decades, not to mention that these films are HUGE blockbusters that in many cases redefinied their own genres.
How many films like this has Beltrami actually had? Except for maybe Scream (and horror scores are rarely that popular and have that well-known scores), there really isn't any. Especially after Hellboy was so exceptionally fucked up by GDT with its second part, for which Elfman delivered one of his laziest and worst scores in years.
All of these films are also constantly being shown on TV several times a year and actually offer music A LOT of space to actually develop something meaningful and have a lot of room in the sound mix - when any recent BIG movie actually had that - long scenes with minimum dialogues combined with thematic and memorable music?
And the last one... I would hardly ever consider anything a quality movie/score/whatever just because someone else thinks so, so who cares what "general public" thinks?
I think you are correct, Lokutus. You and I are saying a lot of the same things. Give Beltrami films that demand such themes, especially several blockbuster films that will be referenced in other media forms, and we'll have those memorable, iconic themes. Look how many times sports events have used Goldsmith's RUDY themes. I don't think he has been given the films that lead to such iconic scores, but I hope he will be given such films. He deserves them.
P.S. I too don't care what the general public "thinks." On the other hand, the general public, over time, tend to recognize memorable scores, not just we few collectors.
I think you are correct, Lokutus. You and I are saying a lot of the same things. Give Beltrami films that demand such themes, especially several blockbuster films that will be referenced in other media forms, and we'll have those memorable, iconic themes. Look how many times sports events have used Goldsmith's RUDY themes. I don't think he has been given the films that lead to such iconic scores, but I hope he will be given such films. He deserves them.
For me, Hellboy is Beltrami's big thematic "iconic" score, or his shot at it anyway. The score is hugely thematic and has several character themes I still remember well today. The movie was moderately successful in theaters, moreso on home video, but not a huge smash. That, and Del Toro's decision to go to another composer for the sequel were marks against the score's chances of becoming iconic, being recognized by a larger audience. For Hellboy 2, the score ended up being another been-there-done-that effort and going with another composer and tossing out every theme Beltrami had established hurt the second film ( at least for me ).
I agree that outside of Hellboy, MB hasn't had the high profile features, the kind that can utilize those huge thematic scores. But is this even something Beltrami pursues? He works constantly it seems always has a project in the works. He seems to be doing very well going from independent films to large ( if not blockbuster sized ) studio films.
And Varese still needs to go back and give us a complete Hellboy Deluxe Edition , if nothing else so we can toss the click-ridden original album
Love the track "Bathtime" ... very solemn, beautiful statements of thematic material. It's a track that takes its time to say what it wants to say, expertly paced with such expressive strings and lovely piano.
Also think "Briggs Moves On" is a great track, very folksy/bluegrass. Wonderful guitar and banjo performances and more emotive strings. Listening to this track makes me happy, puts a smile on my face, it's just so great...something about it is just so appealing.
Would love to see this score get an Oscar nom...it has a perfect balance of creativity, ingenuity, beautiful melody, a great theme, terrific regional instrumentation and performances and is clearly dedicated to (and succeeds at IMHO) giving the film a musical soul.
It is wonderful to read J. Southall's and D. Riley's positive reviews. I'm dying to see this movie and keep thinking each weekend that the movie will be released to the general public. Still not here even though I've found so many positive critical reviews. The critic's have seen it. When can we?
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