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 Posted:   Dec 31, 2013 - 1:46 AM   
 By:   Basil Wrathbone   (Member)

But let's not over-react for what we have on this CD is Rozsa's exquisite score performed by the composer and the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra in sound which, given the advance health warning, is of a better sound quality than I ever thought would be possible.


Fair enough, except that (as far as I know from what I've read above and please correct me if I'm wrong), there was no advance warning of the presence of an interspersed Heifetz recording on this CD until now (with the title sold out, or close to it).
I think such an insertion (of a piece of a completely different recording by a different soloist by a different orchestra with a different conductor) even if done seamlessly and with the best-intentioned aim of betterment of the end product, should be made clear to potential buyers from the outset, especially when other aspects of the restoration have been detailed.
For me, this factor would definitely have had an influence on whether I decided to stick with just the fine Tadlow re-recording or invest in the original also. That apart, I'm pleased so many folks are enjoying it.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 31, 2013 - 1:55 AM   
 By:   Loverozsa   (Member)

It never ceases to amaze me that people will find something to complain about. This is a fantastic release, even with the insertion. Just STOP COMPLAINING and be VERY GRATEFUL for the
tremendous time, effort, and care that went into this release!!!!!!

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 31, 2013 - 3:37 AM   
 By:   Spymaster   (Member)

Is the controversial "Gabrielle" cue presented as per the film in Tadlow's re-recording?

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 31, 2013 - 4:40 AM   
 By:   Doug Raynes   (Member)

Is the controversial "Gabrielle" cue presented as per the film in Tadlow's re-recording?

No. As I said above, Tadlow recorded an extended version incorporating extra material from the Concerto.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 31, 2013 - 6:18 AM   
 By:   TerraEpon   (Member)

It never ceases to amaze me that people will find something to complain about. This is a fantastic release, even with the insertion. Just STOP COMPLAINING and be VERY GRATEFUL for the
tremendous time, effort, and care that went into this release!!!!!!


So, it's wrong to complain you're not getting what is advertised?

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 31, 2013 - 10:23 AM   
 By:   Spymaster   (Member)

No. As I said above, Tadlow recorded an extended version incorporating extra material from the Concerto.

So you did, and thanks!

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 31, 2013 - 11:32 AM   
 By:   Rozsaphile   (Member)

This reminds me of a story regarding the classic 1952 EMI recording of Tristan und Isolde, conducted by Furtwängler. Word got out that there had been two sopranos present at the session where they recorded the central love duet. The persistent puzzlement led to the eventual disclosure of the facts. Kirsten Flagstad, the great Isolde of her time, was nearing the end of her career by this point and felt uncomfortable with two high notes in the duet. So Elisabeth Schwarzkopf, another great singer, who happened to be the wife of EMI's president, was asked to fill in just those two top notes at the session. This was done "live" in performance and not via the overdubbing trickery that has since become commonplace. The substitution was supposed to be a secret, but word leaked out and people got upset for a time. In the long run, of course, it matters not at all. The EMI Tristan was and is regarded as one of the all-time great recordings.

Quartet's trickery seems similarly trivial -- an amusing but ultimately unimportant footnote. They simply made the best of a challenging situation. I would be more curious to learn how Tadlow came to record the concerto version instead of the film cue.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 31, 2013 - 8:11 PM   
 By:   RonBurbella   (Member)

This reminds me of a story regarding the classic 1952 EMI recording of Tristan und Isolde, conducted by Furtwängler. Word got out that there had been two sopranos present at the session where they recorded the central love duet. The persistent puzzlement led to the eventual disclosure of the facts. Kirsten Flagstad, the great Isolde of her time, was nearing the end of her career by this point and felt uncomfortable with two high notes in the duet. So Elisabeth Schwarzkopf, another great singer, who happened to be the wife of EMI's president, was asked to fill in just those two top notes at the session. This was done "live" in performance and not via the overdubbing trickery that has since become commonplace. The substitution was supposed to be a secret, but word leaked out and people got upset for a time. In the long run, of course, it matters not at all. The EMI Tristan was and is regarded as one of the all-time great recordings.

Quartet's trickery seems similarly trivial -- an amusing but ultimately unimportant footnote. They simply made the best of a challenging situation. I would be more curious to learn how Tadlow came to record the concerto version instead of the film cue.
*********************************************************************

I like your analogy, John. Count me in the "happy with the 98+% pure that we got" camp who will tolerate a minor 60-second sonic compromise in a irreparably defective cue. OK, it's not perfect, but it's the best that could be done by people who love this music and love what they do. A great big THANK YOU to all at Quartet. I would not hesitate to make the purchase, as some have suggested that they would do. My copy is in the mail.

I would also wonder why they could not have used the isolated music score channel on the Laser Disc release for that one minute, or even for the whole cue as alternate "bonus track" just for completeness' sake for the purists. Just wondering.

Ron Burbella


 
 
 Posted:   Jan 2, 2014 - 10:27 PM   
 By:   Clemens   (Member)

In case anyone might be interested -- and you were a tad late in ordering a copy of TPLOSH-- you might go on-line and check out "CHRIS' SOUNDTRACK CORNER" in Germany, a look-see, as I've ordered several hard-to-find items -- just recently purchased "THE GIANTS OF THESSALY" by Carlo Rustichelli -- he has many, many good things. Good luck!

 
 Posted:   Jan 2, 2014 - 11:10 PM   
 By:   Josh Mitchell   (Member)

In case anyone might be interested -- and you were a tad late in ordering a copy of TPLOSH-- you might go on-line and check out "CHRIS' SOUNDTRACK CORNER" in Germany, a look-see, as I've ordered several hard-to-find items -- just recently purchased "THE GIANTS OF THESSALY" by Carlo Rustichelli -- he has many, many good things. Good luck!

I agree that it's a great site, but Quartet's Holmes release is no longer available there, so don't get your hopes up, anyone.

 
 Posted:   Jan 3, 2014 - 12:46 AM   
 By:   Peter Greenhill   (Member)

It is unfortunate that the complete 'Gabrielle' cue as heard in the film is missing in action. However, many thanks to Quartet for doing the best possible job in the circumstances. My copy of the Quartet CD is still in transit but here's a version of Gabrielle, I think from the Tadlow rerecording:

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 3, 2014 - 8:46 AM   
 By:   Rozsaphile   (Member)

The new disc a valuable representation, sounding better than we had been led to believe. It's always bright and clear, though admittedly without much depth or presence in the lower register. Comparable, I'd say, to a lot of those early fifties preservation jobs. It certainly sounds better than THE SECRET FILES OF J. EDGAR HOOVER from 1978. What does it say about the film industry that materials from the 1970s have been allowed to deteriorate so?

Oddly my first impression has to do with neither the music nor the audio quality. On page 2 of the valuable and generous 28-page booklet we find this interesting description of Holmes's fiddling from a Conan Doyle story:

Leaning back in his arm-chair . . . he would close his eyes and scrape carelessly at the fiddle which was thrown across his knee. Sometimes the chords were sonorous and melancholy. Occasionally they were fantastic and cheerful.

Really? I certainly don't recall Mr. Stephens or Mr. Gruenberg attempting that maneuver in the movie. I'd love to see them try and produce sonorous "chords" in such fashion. I always thought the author of the Sherlock Holmes stories was a stickler for exactitude and precision. Can anybody illuminate me further about his treatment of matters musical?

 
 Posted:   Jan 3, 2014 - 9:12 AM   
 By:   Frank DeWald   (Member)

Can anybody illuminate me further about his treatment of matters musical?

I guess if we'd quoted the full passage, John, it would have been clear that the "sonorous" and "melancholy" chords were produced when he was playing normally! But I liked the image of the distracted Holmes just scraping away. We certainly didn't mean to impugn Mr. Conan Doyle's musical expertise. smile

 
 Posted:   Jan 3, 2014 - 10:15 AM   
 By:   Basil Wrathbone   (Member)


Really? I certainly don't recall Mr. Stephens or Mr. Gruenberg attempting that maneuver in the movie. I'd love to see them try and produce sonorous "chords" in such fashion. I always thought the author of the Sherlock Holmes stories was a stickler for exactitude and precision. Can anybody illuminate me further about his treatment of matters musical?



At early music concerts I've attended some artists play the violin in the manner of the times, tucked into the body not far above the hip. I've seen such violinists sitting and playing with the violin while holding it in their laps. Here's a clip of another style, held well below the chin.
Might it have suited a scholarly, individual mind like Holmes' to play with the violin in such an "olde worlde" style?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL1bv1Wi7KY

(If you recognize the tune from its use in a movie, one example could be James Newton Howard's score for "Restoration")

 
 Posted:   Jan 4, 2014 - 5:36 PM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

Really? I certainly don't recall Mr. Stephens or Mr. Gruenberg attempting that maneuver in the movie. I'd love to see them try and produce sonorous "chords" in such fashion. I always thought the author of the Sherlock Holmes stories was a stickler for exactitude and precision. Can anybody illuminate me further about his treatment of matters musical?




Sir Arthur trained in medicine at Edinburgh medical school, and based some of Holmes on one of his tutors, a fanatical empiricist and observer.

It's not really wise to see him as the sort of intellectual giant his creation was. He was, you'll recall totally duped by the 'fairies' hoax, and was a proponent of Victorian spiritualism for ages.

Holmes' musicianship was never perfect. Conan-Doyle MIGHT have made it so, and added to the 'semi-autistic' quality that some have seen in Holmes, but that particular trait of that condition, i.e. the unnatural capacity for concentration, and an ease in memory and musical performance, wasn't something so well known in those days. Holmes was essentially obsessive and a cocaine addict. So his music was occasionally a bit skewiff.


A fun anecdote that's still told, (and embellished round the world as an urban myth, and was until recently a ritual still performed annually by consultants teaching freshmen at Edinburgh medical school):

Consultant: "Now the art and science of medicine is based entirely on precision of observation. It also requires a healthy familiarity with aspects of the body that are considered distasteful to the layman. You must learn to overcome your squeamishness to be successful as doctors"....

Consultant produces a large beaker of urine and sets it on the bench.

"Now this is a fresh urine sample, taken from a patient. You will observe as I dip my finger into the urine, then take it to my mouth and lick it ..."

Does so.

"Now I want each of you students to do the same."

Students each dip their fingers into the urine, one by one, very reluctantly, and lick it, some inevitably gagging, all trying to impress the consultant.

Consultant: "Very good. Now you'll recall that at the beginning, I told you that observation is key in successful diagnosis ..... You should therefore all have observed that I dipped my SECOND finger in the urine, and put my THIRD finger to my mouth to lick ..."

Much horror.


Stephen Fry retold the urban myth version of this true story recently in a 'QI' show, which version worsens the story by using a cadaver's orifice instead of urine. Wrong again, Stephen, as so often on that show.

 
 Posted:   Jan 4, 2014 - 6:14 PM   
 By:   oyarsa   (Member)


Fair enough, except that (as far as I know from what I've read above and please correct me if I'm wrong), there was no advance warning of the presence of an interspersed Heifetz recording on this CD until now (with the title sold out, or close to it).
I think such an insertion (of a piece of a completely different recording by a different soloist by a different orchestra with a different conductor) even if done seamlessly and with the best-intentioned aim of betterment of the end product, should be made clear to potential buyers from the outset, especially when other aspects of the restoration have been detailed.
For me, this factor would definitely have had an influence on whether I decided to stick with just the fine Tadlow re-recording or invest in the original also. That apart, I'm pleased so many folks are enjoying it.


I agree. For some people it wouldn't have been a letdown I guess. But marketing comes first.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 6, 2014 - 6:07 PM   
 By:   Rozsaphile   (Member)

Sure enough, somebody has cataloged Sherlock Holmes's musical adventures: http://www.classicfm.com/discover/music/sherlock-holmes-musical-facts/

 
 Posted:   Jan 12, 2014 - 8:06 PM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

Tonight, BBC4 in the UK aired a fascinating little 1 hour documentary in the 'Timeshift' occasional series, 'How to be Sherlock Holmes' which dealt with the history on Holmes depictions on film and TV, from the silent era to Cumberbatch. Rozsa's score was played often as background to the narrations, and quite a few intriguing interviews turned up: Wilder's film (unusually) had longer time devoted to it than anything else really. Christopher Lee commented on Wilder's technique, and quipped a few anecdotes. A surprising interview with Douglas Wilmer too, who seems in good nick:


http://www.theartsdesk.com/tv/timeshift-how-be-sherlock-holmes-bbc-four-sherlock-bbc-one

I should think it's available on the Beeb iPlayer, for those who can access that.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 13, 2014 - 12:16 PM   
 By:   Bob Bryden   (Member)

Just finished listening - the original tracks are wonderful. More than adequate sound. A little tinny here and there but I've heard scores from 1970 which sounded much worse and considering the work they had to do - this is a fantastic restoration!

 
 Posted:   Jan 13, 2014 - 2:52 PM   
 By:   George Komar   (Member)

I should think it's available on the Beeb iPlayer, for those who can access that.

Currently BBC iPlayer TV programmes are available to play in the UK only. Radio programmes are another matter.

 
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