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 Posted:   Jan 19, 2010 - 7:50 AM   
 By:   Mark Ford   (Member)

One of my favorite early Goldsmith scores, full blooded and filled with exciting action cues utilizing complex polyphonic and contrapuntal writing. I had the second Citadel LP release for years and then was excited when the Sony CD came out. Boy was that a disappointment. The sound was no better than the LP, even less so I thought, so I went back to the LP which wasn't exactly the best either. Now finally it seems the release I've been waiting for is finally here. Intrada delivers right out of the chute here in 2010!

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 19, 2010 - 7:51 AM   
 By:   scrapsly   (Member)

The word REMASTERED sells many CD's I am sure. If the sound is really improved, then I am for ANY disc getting remastered. If anyone wants to buy it or not is their choice, but again, great job Intrada.

 
 Posted:   Jan 19, 2010 - 8:10 AM   
 By:   Roach   (Member)

I have the Varese copy and Legacy copy.
But I still want to get the Intrada limited edition copy.
Bravo!

 
 Posted:   Jan 19, 2010 - 8:40 AM   
 By:   mildcigar   (Member)

I have the Varese copy and Legacy copy.
But I still want to get the Intrada limited edition copy.
Bravo!


Goldsmith releases are rampant at the moment.

He is "the master".

 
 Posted:   Jan 19, 2010 - 8:40 AM   
 By:   spielboy   (Member)

Thor, it's ok you dont like it, but... how can you say this is not a THEMATIC score?!?!

main title....

 
 Posted:   Jan 19, 2010 - 8:51 AM   
 By:   Tester   (Member)

For me, the blue max is one of that rare exceptions where a score would be way much better and enjoyable reduced to a 10 minutes suite or less, because the expanded version (and even the LP) are repetitive to death. Never seen the movie, but if you have to believe the music, the script probably was something like "and now... somebody shows up and... he's flying" - sounds another variation of the main theme -

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 19, 2010 - 9:31 AM   
 By:   Bob Bryden   (Member)

This is so ironic, synchronistic:
Last week I bought the DVD of 'The Blue Max'
and really watched the film for the first time.
I was VERY impressed with the film as drama
and really noticed how magnificent Jerry's score is.
Played my Sony CD right after just to enjoy
the score - noticing that it could use a slightly
better mastering job.
HERE 'TIS.
Personally, for both expanded CD releases I would have preferred
the source music integrated chronologically into
the score. (I know I can program that myself!)
But still - this IS one of those Goldsmith releases
that does deserve definitive presentation.
Thanks Intrada. Will be ordering.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 19, 2010 - 9:39 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Thor, it's ok you dont like it, but... how can you say this is not a THEMATIC score?!?!

Oh, it's definitely thematic. It's just too damn NOISY.

 
 Posted:   Jan 19, 2010 - 9:49 AM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

For me, the blue max is one of that rare exceptions where a score would be way much better and enjoyable reduced to a 10 minutes suite or less, because the expanded version (and even the LP) are repetitive to death. Never seen the movie, but if you have to believe the music, the script probably was something like "and now... somebody shows up and... he's flying" - sounds another variation of the main theme -

You can't have been listening. The unbelievably intricate layering of the German Army Retreat Passacaglia (you couldn't even get that one cue into '10 minutes'!), the whole tragic feel of the variations on the main theme. The exhilaration of the air battle, the onomatopoeia of the brass engine sounds, the Germanic basslines and military rhythms, even the whirl of string slipstream against the morbid brass, the intimate love-waltz, the whole 'high and low' thing (this film is all the Icarus myth, y'know)... The only place you find real repetition is in the Entr'Acte. And there's so much wonderful Bachian fugato and counterpoint, and Romantic height, and impressionistic tension ... it's a history of Western music in a plant-pot.

Whether you think it Goldsmith's best or no, it's certainly a showcase of his craftsmanship and scope like no other.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 19, 2010 - 9:58 AM   
 By:   Bob Bryden   (Member)

For me, the blue max is one of that rare exceptions where a score would be way much better and enjoyable reduced to a 10 minutes suite or less, because the expanded version (and even the LP) are repetitive to death. Never seen the movie, but if you have to believe the music, the script probably was something like "and now... somebody shows up and... he's flying" - sounds another variation of the main theme -

You can't have been listening. The unbelievably intricate layering of the German Army Retreat Passacaglia (you couldn't even get that one cue into '10 minutes'!), the whole tragic feel of the variations on the main theme. The exhileration of the air battle, the anomatopoeia of the brass engine sounds, the Germanic basslines and military rhythms, even the whirl of string slipstream against the morbid brass, the intimate love-waltz, the whole 'high and low' thing (this film is all the Icarus myth, y'know)... The only place you find real repetition is in the Entr'Acte. And there's so much wonderful Bachian fugato and counterpoint, and Romantic height, and impressionistis tension ... it's a history of Western music in a plant-pot.

Whether you think it Goldsmith's best or no, it's certainly a showcase of his craftsmanship and scope like no other.


I agree with you totally WILLIAMD!!! You're probably the person to ask this question: I love the 'Retreat' cue - but in the film I noticed that it starts but then seems to be dialed out once the strafing of the troops starts - and then returns later. Is this what happened? Did Jerry write for the entire bit (including strafing)
and then someone figured the mid-section didn't need music!?

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 19, 2010 - 10:07 AM   
 By:   Morricone   (Member)

This is one of my least favourite Goldsmith scores of all time. I had the Sony CD for many years, and gave it DOZENS of chances, but I think it only happened once or twice that I actually managed to stay through the whole thing. To me, it was simply too bombastic, lots of "screaming" brass and percussion that went on and on. It's the complete anti-thesis of what I like to listen to these days. So I sold it off just a few months ago.

Still, it's good to know that they cleaned up the sound a bit for this one. While the Sony was perfectly OK for its age, it still had a way to go and I'm glad they found the right source elements to fix it up.

I'd like to see the film some day. I'm sure it's fine and appropriately "rousing" in context.


Good to see you have left this bombastic stuff behind and prefer more subtle, shaded, nuanced and laid back sounds like AVATAR. roll eyes

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 19, 2010 - 10:16 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Good to see you have left this bombastic stuff behind and prefer more subtle, shaded, nuanced and laid back sounds like AVATAR. roll eyes

AVATAR has its share of action material too, sure, but is overall a far more enjoyable experience - the ethereal world music vibes provide aural comfort throughout. Plus, of course, that Horner's approach to "bombast" is easier to digest for me.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 19, 2010 - 10:34 AM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)

I have to admit I was not that familiar with this score (war scores are not my taste) and only knew it from the attack cue.

Hearing the love theme on piano is what sold me on this one. Vintage Goldsmith.

 
 Posted:   Jan 19, 2010 - 10:45 AM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

I love the 'Retreat' cue - but in the film I noticed that it starts but then seems to be dialed out once the strafing of the troops starts - and then returns later. Is this what happened? Did Jerry write for the entire bit (including strafing)
and then someone figured the mid-section didn't need music!?


I'm not sure I'd be the best authority ... in fact I'm not ... but that's what seems to have happened. Why they dialled that down ... and 'The Bridge' too ... is unfathomable.

I suppose you could argue that Goldsmith gave such a great musical 'picture' of those scenes that the droning brass and bass music just couldn't be heard above the SFX whilst the higher strings could. Certainly they've opted for cutting bass as a rule in favour of violins.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 19, 2010 - 10:49 AM   
 By:   Michael_McMahan   (Member)



Hearing the love theme on piano is what sold me on this one. Vintage Goldsmith.


Right on. It is one of my favorites. It offers such a wonderful contrast to the battle music. Kind of like The Omen's theme for Kathy surrounded by all the darkness of Jerry's black mass. I love these tragic love themes that he was so adept at creating.

 
 Posted:   Jan 19, 2010 - 10:57 AM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

I have to admit I was not that familiar with this score (war scores are not my taste) and only knew it from the attack cue.

Hearing the love theme on piano is what sold me on this one. Vintage Goldsmith.



The REAL 'war' in the screenplay is one of class, so it's not yer straightforward Ron Goodwin action/heroics type of score.

I dunno if this needs a spoiler, but the film is basically about Bruno Stahel, a working-class soldier who dreams of flying. He joins an officer-cadre elite, and feels he must prove himself. He becomes more and more ambitious in the face of the 'chivalrous' aristos, and inflates somewhat when he enters a dangerous relationship with a Countess, and forces himself into a position where he's made a war-hero for publicity in hard times. The aristos think he's ruthless (and he plays up to that, though it's a misunderstanding) and eventually conspire to have him 'honourably' killed in a test-flight with a plane with unsafe wing-struts ... get the Icarus thing? So it's a bit like 'Lawrence of Arabia' in that the upper classes make him, use him, then ditch him when he's no longer useful. It's a tragedy, and the music reflects that.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 19, 2010 - 11:11 AM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)

Kind of like The Omen's theme for Kathy surrounded by all the darkness of Jerry's black mass. I love these tragic love themes that he was so adept at creating.

Yes. Another favorite is the one in Outland. I need to compile these on a disc.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 19, 2010 - 11:36 AM   
 By:   John McMasters   (Member)

I've ordered this -- will supplement the old lp and Varese release in my library -- and the various suites and rerecords. It is a wonderful score.

Gosh my clearest memory of this film is Ursula Andress and that damn towel...has a simple, draped piece of cloth ever received so much rapt attention from an audience of adolescent males?

 
 Posted:   Jan 19, 2010 - 11:40 AM   
 By:   Ron Pulliam   (Member)

Thor, it's ok you dont like it, but... how can you say this is not a THEMATIC score?!?!

Oh, it's definitely thematic. It's just too damn NOISY.


"The Blue Max" is a masterwork...and it has a number of beautiful pastoral passages. Thor complains of blaring horns, but what I hear overall is some of the most soaring string writing Goldsmith ever did. As far is it being "rousing" within the film, I find it less rousing than impassioned. It's not a clang-bang score as Thor seems to imply, but rather a score that lifts the film far above what it might have been with a different/more traditional war film score. This is not just a story about an ambitious man's quest for glory...it's about FLIGHT at a time when wars were fought in the air...and Goldsmith's score captures that soaring adventurousness with passages that highlight both its beauty and its ugliness.

This is by far one of my five favorite Goldsmith scores.

 
 Posted:   Jan 19, 2010 - 11:42 AM   
 By:   Sarge   (Member)

Gosh my clearest memory of this film is Ursula Andress and that damn towel...has a simple, draped piece of cloth ever received so much wrapt attention from an audience of adolescent males?

I didn't see the film until I was a full-grown adult, and I don't remember a damn thing either of them said in that scene. big grin

I can't think of a film where she was more stunning - not even DR. NO.

 
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