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 Posted:   Jul 24, 2013 - 6:30 PM   
 By:   edwzoomom   (Member)

I can say I've met I believe just about all the labels except for Quartet and Music Box and all these guys are so so passionate and the amount of stuff they know on scores, who owns what, where the rights lie is, for a geek like me is very fascinating. I LOVE film music. It's in my soul. I have been playing it daily for over 23 years. Not one day has gone by that I haven't listened to a score or several in one day. So these labels, all of them for me are kind of like my heroes. They all have given me so many tunes that I've been wanting for years that I'll eternally be grateful to them for the rest of my days. Does that sound sappy, probably but it's the truth. Heck even back in the day with Bruce Kimmel on Bay Cities giving us/me Return to Oz. BK will always be on a pedestal to me for that one.

Most know I love us coming together as a community whether it be the fans come together or the labels who ALL put out great stuff. Heck Intrada alone has filled my Horner catalogue so generously that I will always be in their corner.

LLL has given me some of my grails and they have been nothing but super cool and nice, especially Blazing Saddles which had instrumentals of the songs. I love that, yes I'm just that nerdy! And I can't forget Mommie Dearest. I can't imagine that sold well, but you bet your bottom I got a copy. THANK YOU

Roger F. over at Intrada what he said about Santa Claus the Movie was so dead on that I LOVE IT! That is the kind of stuff I love hearing and if I was in his shoes making soundtracks, I would have thought the exact same, Darn we couldn't do it, but thankful someone else could and know they would give the score the respect it deserves. Also one of my biggest grails ever. Thank you Quartet for that one. I would love to see someday each label sending to all the other labels copies of what they just released as a good gesture kind of thing. I think that could really be a great thing and it wouldn't be a lot of copies, just one or two copies to each label. Keeps the good vibes flowing from label to label. I know some do this, but don't know if everyone does. Again, I'm a community guy. I love seeing everyone coming together for the greater good which is making great projects! I also love seeing other label owners names on other labels projects. That is awesome I think. People helping each other out even if they are competing labels.

I've also had the opportunity to meet and hang out with Robin and I believe his heart is in the right place, sometimes goofs were made, heck we all goof up, I know I do. Though I don't know a lot of the history that happens behind closed doors in the soundtrack industry, but maybe others have slipped up here and there. I feel the most important thing is to learn from all your mistakes and this goes way far beyond this issue and into daily life. Learn from your mistakes. Now saying that sometimes in the past it's taken me a few times to follow my own advice. I've sat with Robin quite a bit and I really do feel his heart is in the right spot and he's been absolutely one of the nicest guys to me.

I also am the type of person who really tries to believe in a person and give them a chance etc. It's just in my character. I appreciate all of the labels for doing so much for us fans. It pains me to see you guys put so much into a release only to be chastised by my fellow fans because there's one misspelled word or, you didn't use the cover art from this poster that this one fan liked etc. etc. There are bigger problems in the world then a misspelled word or something.

I think a new chapter at Perseverance Records is about to take flight and as Roger said so elegantly, "he'd be happy to add them to the list."

Congrats on Mission of the Shark and I just have to add, LOVE LOVE LOVE what I heard on the Safan promo by the way and it's because of those few tracks that once Intrada release it, you bet I'll be ordering my copy. Though now I'll have to start paying sales tax since I live out here in California, darn darn darn. It's worth it to keep all of you going.

Dear Roger at Intrada I do hope it's okay I added a quote or two from you, but they were really well stated and so damn good. Only the BEST intentions from me to the community of course. smile

From a DIE hard score fan and from a fan who loves all the labels, KEEP up the good work us blood thirsty score craving fans love the tunes! smile


I am not going to comment on the subject of this thread directly because I know nothing of it - I read it through and it made my teeth hurt.

However, I do want to tell drivingmissdaisy that your posts always lift me up and make me smile. Sappy? No! Upbeat? Yes! dantheman referred to me indirectly the other day as Mother Teresa (it was in jest) but if I am Mother Teresa, then drivingmissdaisy is the Gandi to my Mother Teresa!

Peace out

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 24, 2013 - 6:40 PM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

I think a new chapter at Perseverance Records is about to take flight and as Roger said so elegantly, "he'd be happy to add them to the list."


Peter, I'm pretty sure Roger meant he wants to help bury Perseverance.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 24, 2013 - 6:41 PM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

"Fuck you very much
MV"

 
 Posted:   Jul 24, 2013 - 6:51 PM   
 By:   drivingmissdaisy   (Member)

I think a new chapter at Perseverance Records is about to take flight and as Roger said so elegantly, "he'd be happy to add them to the list."


Peter, I'm pretty sure Roger meant he wants to help bury Perseverance.


Roger elegantly said on his recent Intrada post that once Perseverance Records starts on a new path so to speak, he'd be OK with them. Check out his last response on the Intrada forum. I believe Robin will be just fine in the future. I have this hunchsmile

Bottom line I can't say thank you enough to all the labels. The amount of great music each one has given us is phenomenal. The time we are living in, my gosh, we are so so lucky. A dear freind of mine the other day was getting a bit down because he just now started into all of this and when we talk about this or that score, he gets a bit down because then I say, oh that was released 3 yrs ago, or oh yah that was a limited Varese release 4 yrs ago. He's missed so much. Another GOOD thing about all the labels re-issuing stuff, others can now get them. Case in point my friend smile

 
 Posted:   Jul 24, 2013 - 7:00 PM   
 By:   Elmo Bernstein   (Member)

The reason why Witches of Eastwick wasn't expanded was that we thought the music on the original WB album was already the best representation of the score. If you know the rest of the music you'll find that it is the same thing over and over again. That's why John Williams released it that way originally.

No, John Williams released it that way because it was 1987 and album programs still had to be able to fit on LPs.

We don't think there needs to be every single note from a score on a CD for a good listening experience, but that's just our opinion.

Well that's an opinion shared by no one who collects soundtracks. Anyone familiar with Witches Of Eastwick is well-aware there are a lot of excellent cues not included on the CD, which are anything but "the same thing over and over". And even if they were, "bonus cues" have become de rigueur for archival releases - at least with labels who have a clue about what their audience wants (i.e. FSM, LaLa, Intrada, etc.).

to license anything additional would have cost us considerably more money, and we wouldn't have been able to pass a fair price on to you. Also, more legalities would be involved.

Translation: "We couldn't be bothered."

I don't usually get hot under the collar, but it's an insult to all soundtrack collectors for Esterhammer to make such a ludicrous excuse.

 
 Posted:   Jul 24, 2013 - 7:07 PM   
 By:   Shaun Rutherford   (Member)


We don't think there needs to be every single note from a score on a CD for a good listening experience, but that's just our opinion.


Well that's an opinion shared by no one who collects soundtracks.

Paging Thor to thread, paging Thor to thread.

As some of us get older, I think we'll find ourselves more in line with Thor's thinking. Note that I said more in line, not completely in line. So many of these reissues are just loaded with filler, when really, adding the 2 or 3 tracks that were actually missed when the original album was released would be enough.

 
 Posted:   Jul 24, 2013 - 7:13 PM   
 By:   Elmo Bernstein   (Member)

So many of these reissues are just loaded with filler, when really, adding the 2 or 3 tracks that were actually missed when the original album was released would be enough.

I entirely agree some expansions have what amounts to filler. Though in the case of Witches Of Eastwick specifically, there are several unreleased cues which are unique and unlike those on the original CD (the "pearls on the stairs" cue, or Michele Pfeiffer's visit to the hospital for instance), and would round-out the program nicely. In any case, it has become custom for the labels to provide extra material to make a reissue special. FSM, Intrada, LaLa do it all the time. Esterhammer's excuse boils-down to his simply not being willing to make the same effort.

 
 Posted:   Jul 24, 2013 - 8:05 PM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)


We don't think there needs to be every single note from a score on a CD for a good listening experience, but that's just our opinion.


Well that's an opinion shared by no one who collects soundtracks.


Nonsense. I own thousands of soundtrack CDs, and the opinion you mock is my opinion, too.

 
 Posted:   Jul 24, 2013 - 8:43 PM   
 By:   LeHah   (Member)

Well that's an opinion shared by no one who collects soundtracks.

No matter who you are, speaking in the definitive article about *everyone* in a group makes you sound like a conceited ass.

 
 Posted:   Jul 24, 2013 - 8:56 PM   
 By:   Lukas Kendall   (Member)


Good grief!

If you have to write a multi-section message board post explaining how album after album is NOT a bootleg, and how each catastrophe is NOT your fault... you are definitely doing something wrong.

Regarding The Witches of Eastwick, Robin licensed the album program from WB Records, but WB Pictures told him to jump in a lake regarding any bonus tracks. Whenever we did WB expansions of that nature—and there were lots of them, from Bullitt to The Wild Bunch—we had to deal with both companies.

Alas, I promised not to talk about Robin's screw-ups to some of the companies and entities who had to disentangle themselves from his fiascos. They were embarrassed enough as it was!

Lukas

 
 Posted:   Jul 24, 2013 - 9:00 PM   
 By:   Josh   (Member)


We don't think there needs to be every single note from a score on a CD for a good listening experience, but that's just our opinion.


Well that's an opinion shared by no one who collects soundtracks.



 
 
 Posted:   Jul 24, 2013 - 9:50 PM   
 By:   Koray Savas   (Member)


I will not praise nor damn either side in this. Lets be honest with ourselves: we have no horse in this race. Koray, who started that thread and master of the most inane interview questions I've ever head in my life, seems to be filled to the eyes with Red Sox Syndrome: more interested in the other team losing than his own team winning. He doesn't want to build up, only break something down. You find these types everywhere and they tend to be subtle, but like that line in Open Range, "you'll hear a man's bad intentions if you let him speak".


Wow sounds like you know a lot about me. Bet you're best friends with Schweiger.

 
 Posted:   Jul 24, 2013 - 11:27 PM   
 By:   Stephan   (Member)

I feel the urge to say how incredibly disgraceful it is for every involved business-party here to throw shit at their colleagues and fellow labels in a public board. It is probably the most unprofessional thing I have ever witnessed. These are things that you simply do not do.
Everybody is ruining his reputation here by calling colleagues liars and other names that were written. These are business-things that you should clarify with each other. Everybody of the involved parties did things that you could discuss like it is done now with Perseverance (FSM re-pressing CDs secretly, Intrada producing and selling dozens of composer-promos in their earlier days etc etc etc) and these people are the ones who throw the largest stones now. This is utterly shameful.

 
 Posted:   Jul 24, 2013 - 11:35 PM   
 By:   On the Score   (Member)

Bumped to next

 
 Posted:   Jul 24, 2013 - 11:35 PM   
 By:   On the Score   (Member)


I will not praise nor damn either side in this. Lets be honest with ourselves: we have no horse in this race. Koray, who started that thread and master of the most inane interview questions I've ever head in my life, seems to be filled to the eyes with Red Sox Syndrome: more interested in the other team losing than his own team winning. He doesn't want to build up, only break something down. You find these types everywhere and they tend to be subtle, but like that line in Open Range, "you'll hear a man's bad intentions if you let him speak".


Wow sounds like you know a lot about me. Bet you're best friends with Schweiger.


Hey Koray, when did I have anything to say to you about any of this? And how do I even figure into this thread you started that's providing so much delight for those wanting to sniff the dirty laundry? There's certainly no mistaking you for some choice adjectives.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 25, 2013 - 12:23 AM   
 By:   tarasis   (Member)

From Douglass Fake http://www.intrada.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=65059&sid=5a51806d96019891f64d34d794c3a4a9#p65059

T. Newman Fan wrote:
"At this point, I think this stuff is best discussed in private among the parties involved in the business.

I know it is beside the overall argument of copyright, but I don't think this Safan sampler will affect sales of complete releases. There's much more depth to these scores than a few short cues."

---

Sadly, this is not true. There can be a drastic effect. And having the discussion in public is just where it apparently needs to be.

Rewind: Some fifteen years ago or whatever, composers and studios would allow promotional albums to help generate interest in the composer's work or sometimes even the film in question. It all slipped in under AFM policies where legitimate releases were prohibitive in costs. Then Intrada, alongside other labels, negotiated with the union to finally usher in the "historic rates" policy that allowed limited copies for sale, legitimately, for whatever profits could be made. It was an incredible turning point for all of us who love this music. The era of promos and gray area releases was over. An era of fully licensed releases to anything that could be located and licensed was now affordable and in.

Fast forward: We are proud to have been of this new era, which now has lasted quite a few years. BUT - the union has always maintained the position that each of the contracts for these licensed releases are for that release alone, and the entire policy can be terminated at any time should the system be abused.

What Mr. Esterhammer is doing IS abusing that system. And I have a dog in this fight, as does MV Gerhard, and the folks at Quartet and Music Box and all of the other labels... and including all of you folks, because we do not want to see this policy shut down and revert back to the era when the only things coming out were either affordable non-union projects or bootlegs with crappy quality made from underground tenth generation cassettes and whatnot.

It isn't even necessary to abuse the system today. The studios will make their actual vault masters available, license the recordings, the AFM will enter into a contract with the labels, and everything happens legitimately at reasonable costs for the most part.

It bothers me a lot to read people defending the issue of unlicensed albums today, especially when the piracy isn't necessary... and especially since it jeopardizes us all.

I love and respect the wonderful competitive environment us labels are experiencing today. If we don't release SANTA CLAUS, we enjoy seeing it come out elsewhere just the same. What happens over at Perseverance is no longer just ignorance of the system, nor is it because of misguided passion. It is just bad form. And if it is going to injure the system all of us legitimate labels today have fought hard to establish so these releases can be done in the best possible quality... yes, I am going to speak out.

For the record. Composers rarely control their music nor do they have much say in what studios and the union do with the recordings. But relationships do get made with labels, things are made possible, especially when the composers may have located the only surviving copies of tapes and whatnot... and again, we can all benefit. In the case of this Safan promo, Craig has no involvement in the licensing and by providing tapes was simply helping make a project happen under the guise that the corresponding label was covering all of the legal bases... which Perseverance was not.

I hope people will keep these thoughts in kind, just as I hope Robin will stick to creating CDs with the proper licenses... so we can all enjoy the music.
--Doug

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 25, 2013 - 12:41 AM   
 By:   Mr. Popular   (Member)


We don't think there needs to be every single note from a score on a CD for a good listening experience, but that's just our opinion.


Well that's an opinion shared by no one who collects soundtracks.


Nonsense. I own thousands of soundtrack CDs, and the opinion you mock is my opinion, too.


Agreed. What some on these boards fail to accept is that additional costs are no guarantee of additional sales.

We also sometimes fail to realize we are NOT the only consumer for these releases. A successful release needs mainstream, non-collectors to buy in order to sell in the high thousands.

 
 Posted:   Jul 25, 2013 - 4:20 AM   
 By:   Juan Carlos García Cortés   (Member)

I feel the urge to say how incredibly disgraceful it is for every involved business-party here to throw shit at their colleagues and fellow labels in a public board. It is probably the most unprofessional thing I have ever witnessed. These are things that you simply do not do.
Everybody is ruining his reputation here by calling colleagues liars and other names that were written. These are business-things that you should clarify with each other. Everybody of the involved parties did things that you could discuss like it is done now with Perseverance (FSM re-pressing CDs secretly, Intrada producing and selling dozens of composer-promos in their earlier days etc etc etc) and these people are the ones who throw the largest stones now. This is utterly shameful.


Agree, I remember when Varese released the new version of Chinatown and La La Land Records laughed at Robert Townson (or Varese) because the new edition didn't improve the old one. Sorry, I don´t like this kind of behavior. Problems must be solved in private.

http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=88929&forumID=1&archive=0

One more thing: The "Chinatown" LP was released on ABC Records, which was sold more than three decades ago to MCA Records, now a part of Geffen Records (if I'm keeping that straight). Whatever other music there is presumably owned by Paramount. So a completely separate license would be required for that music, and as we've seen in the past, getting the two parties together onto one CD can be quite a mean feat.

O.K., but in the case of CHINATOWN there is no other label.
Varese still controls the album and they just had to get the extra tracks from Paramount.
Paramount now works with the labels for around three years. I don't believe for a second that it was not possible to expand CHINATOWN.

But if you are happy Schiffy - good for you.


Also isn't there a rejected score as well?

Pure laziness, plain and simple


MV

 
 Posted:   Jul 25, 2013 - 5:11 AM   
 By:   LeHah   (Member)

Wow sounds like you know a lot about me. Bet you're best friends with Schweiger.

What little I know of you comes from your posts - and from those posts, I don't want to know anything more about you.

 
 Posted:   Jul 25, 2013 - 5:42 AM   
 By:   Grimsdyke   (Member)

 
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