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 Posted:   Aug 22, 2013 - 5:17 PM   
 By:   haineshisway   (Member)

I already own the original 30 minute Varese CD AND the Intrada 55 minute expansion.
Both sound fine to me.
I'm happy to pass on this one, but judging by the traffic here, I'm leaving my copy to a eager home (or a goddamned speculator!!).


Good to see this released again, but I also have 2 of the previous 3 releases and both sound fine to me. Hope someone gets my copy before the speculators do since there will only be 1500 copies.


You know, you're becoming extremely tiresome, posting this crap in every single Kritzerland thread - you have the previous release, you're not buying this one, you hope someone gets your copy. We all get it "Kim Tong" - really, give it a rest.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2013 - 5:18 PM   
 By:   Kim Tong   (Member)

Am I the only one who is tired of reading the arguments of our label friends? Enough.


Roger did not post anything here. Jason LeBlanc posted here what Roger posted on the Intrada message board. LeBlanc should have not posted it here.

When I say I am not interested in a release I get in trouble, but others can say they are not interested? If I did not already own 2 of the 3 previous releases, I would be one of the first in line to purchase your release.

Kim Tong

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2013 - 5:24 PM   
 By:   rickO   (Member)

the long Varese, was just fatiguing to listen to and I truly believe that's why people never went back to it. It's not something you're conscious of when listening, but believe me that kind of thing plays with your unconscious.

Fatiguing is exactly the word I'd use… and why you'll get my money on this one. Dammit!

What's fascinating about the film itself, which I watched again before writing the liner notes, is that had Julian Beck not passed away in the middle of filming and things been hastily rewritten, changed and shortened (the film only runs eighty-three minutes without its end credits), this could have been just as good as the first film. Alas.

I'd forgotten that Beck died mid-filming. I haven't seen the film in years and years, but I remember being disappointed that the film made Carol Anne (and her parents?) clairvoyant. What was great about the first film was that it could have been any family -- yours or mine -- who had the misfortune of moving into that neighborhood above the Indian burial ground. Making them extraordinary sort of killed that.


I e-mailed the gentleman who runs the Poltergeist website, David Furtney, about this release. It's a fan site, but it's very comprehensive and full of informational links. He told me that Julian Beck didn't die mid filming, but after principal photography. He said in his reply, and I quote: "So, they had to get a voice over person to re-dub some of his lines for the sound mix, but otherwise he did finish filming all his scenes. "Poltergeist II" did suffer from about 15 minutes of cuts made by the producers and editing team."

I am pretty sure he is correct. I just personally wish that Beck had been used more. Maybe someday there will be a blu ray release with ALL of the deleted scenes. The film was edited a bit clumsily...

Here is the link to the PII section of his site:

http://www.poltergeistii.poltergeistiii.com/


-Rick O.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2013 - 5:26 PM   
 By:   haineshisway   (Member)

Am I the only one who is tired of reading the arguments of our label friends? Enough.

If Bruce wants to spend the money to put out his release one way, good on him. We, the consumers, will decide if it's good or not with our patronage.

If Doug thinks another way is better, great, but why does he have to chime in all the time? Same goes for MV. I really do not care what record labels think about each other. I care how the music is mastered and released.


I could not agree more. I was really taken aback by that thread over there - so unnecessary and, more importantly, so very wrong. I've been listening to our new version non-stop and going back and forth with both Intrada and Varese - Doug says the three-track mixdowns would cause wrong orchestra placement or synth placement - easy to say when you haven't even heard the bloody half-inch mixes, which are, of course, true stereo - every instrument is in exactly the same place as it is in the digital mixes - oops. And yes, everyone can decide for themselves which is their release of choice - I don't think there's any context. Doug self-servingly says the Intrada is best (of course it is) because the additional cues Varese issued weren't essential. Really? They sound pretty essential to me, as do the four previously unreleased tracks, as do the film versions of the two tracks that have choir on the previous releases (the film versions for orchestra only are in the bonus section), as do the one alternate cue we found (a different version of one of the new cues), blah, blah, blah.

I think enough people who've bought our releases understand my deal with sound and therefore I think they can rest easy knowing James Nelson is on the job and is an ace mastering engineer.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2013 - 5:28 PM   
 By:   haineshisway   (Member)

the long Varese, was just fatiguing to listen to and I truly believe that's why people never went back to it. It's not something you're conscious of when listening, but believe me that kind of thing plays with your unconscious.

Fatiguing is exactly the word I'd use… and why you'll get my money on this one. Dammit!

What's fascinating about the film itself, which I watched again before writing the liner notes, is that had Julian Beck not passed away in the middle of filming and things been hastily rewritten, changed and shortened (the film only runs eighty-three minutes without its end credits), this could have been just as good as the first film. Alas.

I'd forgotten that Beck died mid-filming. I haven't seen the film in years and years, but I remember being disappointed that the film made Carol Anne (and her parents?) clairvoyant. What was great about the first film was that it could have been any family -- yours or mine -- who had the misfortune of moving into that neighborhood above the Indian burial ground. Making them extraordinary sort of killed that.


I e-mailed the gentleman who runs the Poltergeist website, David Furtney, about this release. It's a fan site, but it's very comprehensive and full of informational links. He told me that Julian Beck didn't die mid filming, but after principal photography. He said in his reply, and I quote: "So, they had to get a voice over person to re-dub some of his lines for the sound mix, but otherwise he did finish filming all his scenes. "Poltergeist II" did suffer from about 15 minutes of cuts made by the producers and editing team."

I am pretty sure he is correct. I just personally wish that Beck had been used more. Maybe someday there will be a blu ray release with ALL of the deleted scenes. The film was edited a bit clumsily...

Here is the link to the PII section of his site:

http://www.poltergeistii.poltergeistiii.com/


-Rick O.


I'm not sure I agree with him about when Beck died - I do believe he had not quite finished filming his scenes, but I also believe the producers didn't really want that information out there.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2013 - 5:30 PM   
 By:   haineshisway   (Member)

And I think I forgot to mention that it's a two CD set. We made that decision because I'd originally planned six bonus tracks but that was too long for one CD. I cut three of them but the CD was still coming in at just under eighty minutes and that I didn't want - too dangerous. So, I made the decision to go to two CDs and put on a couple more bonus tracks to boot. And all for 19.98.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2013 - 5:38 PM   
 By:   rickO   (Member)

Am I the only one who is tired of reading the arguments of our label friends? Enough.

If Bruce wants to spend the money to put out his release one way, good on him. We, the consumers, will decide if it's good or not with our patronage.

If Doug thinks another way is better, great, but why does he have to chime in all the time? Same goes for MV. I really do not care what record labels think about each other. I care how the music is mastered and released.


The comments by the other label producers didn't seem out of line to me at all. And they were posting on their own websites. Opinionated, yes but not offensive. I am sure there is sense of propriety from the Intrada folks. They were the ones to get this title off the ground and the first to expand it. So it's natural to stand by their product. And many of the decisions made are artistic ones. The digital mixes felt right for Intrada. The analogue ones will give us a different listening experience. I strongly support Kritzerland's efforts. This will be 4th time for me. I am happy that this title is still being appreciated nearly 30 years on...

-Rick O.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2013 - 5:42 PM   
 By:   rickO   (Member)

And I think I forgot to mention that it's a two CD set. We made that decision because I'd originally planned six bonus tracks but that was too long for one CD. I cut three of them but the CD was still coming in at just under eighty minutes and that I didn't want - too dangerous. So, I made the decision to go to two CDs and put on a couple more bonus tracks to boot. And all for 19.98.

Hell yeah! High five. I feel like a kid on Xmas morning...

-Rick O.

 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2013 - 6:13 PM   
 By:   danbeck   (Member)

And I think I forgot to mention that it's a two CD set. We made that decision because I'd originally planned six bonus tracks but that was too long for one CD. I cut three of them but the CD was still coming in at just under eighty minutes and that I didn't want - too dangerous. So, I made the decision to go to two CDs and put on a couple more bonus tracks to boot. And all for 19.98.

That's great. I imagine other bonus will include they're back and the end credits without chorus.

On the source, not being a fan of the previuos releases sound, I trust Bruce took the right decision taking a fresh approach using an alternate source. But we will have to wait just a few more days to confirm that.

 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2013 - 6:16 PM   
 By:   Nexus 6   (Member)

And I think I forgot to mention that it's a two CD set. We made that decision because I'd originally planned six bonus tracks but that was too long for one CD. I cut three of them but the CD was still coming in at just under eighty minutes and that I didn't want - too dangerous. So, I made the decision to go to two CDs and put on a couple more bonus tracks to boot. And all for 19.98.

Well, I'm certainly happy for this release. And I'm thrilled that you decided to go the 2-CD route. I'll take any extras I can get. I'm one of those few (it seems) that haven't purchased any previous editions of this, so you won't get any crazy comparisons from me of this edition vs. that edition, etc. Much looking forward to this.

 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2013 - 6:33 PM   
 By:   Ray Worley   (Member)

Rats! Now I'm going to have to buy this score again!
big grin

 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2013 - 6:38 PM   
 By:   Advise & Consent   (Member)

Geez! This release keeps getting better and better. If anyone could make a fourth release fresh and exciting, it's you Bruce.

Really looking forward to this.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2013 - 6:47 PM   
 By:   haineshisway   (Member)

Geez! This release keeps getting better and better. If anyone could make a fourth release fresh and exciting, it's you Bruce.

Really looking forward to this.


Thanks! I've been enjoying my little volley with the Grand Poobah, but I've said all I have to and everything that need be said. I love this score, I love the new sound (just to be clear, despite what Doug has inferred and/or implied) the mixes are basically the same - with three-track mix downs you can't really remix - the mix is the mix and they sound great (and I truly believe that the previous CDs came from the original digital versions of the same exact mix downs - in other words, they printed the three-track mix downs digitally and to analogue at the same time - but it's the analogue natural sound rather than the digital that makes the difference, at least to my ears, and not in an inconsequential and minor way - that and the additional clarity that comes from not drowning the choir in reverb so that that reverb makes the already wet orchestra sound sound like an ocean. I'm truly hoping that people will hear the clarity and the difference especially in dynamics. But even if not, it's worth it for all the extra stuff, at least I think so. And I've tended to favor the choir a few times more along the lines of how it's used in the film. We had complete control over the choir. I love having complete control over a choir, don't you?

I totally understand Doug's proprietary feeling about this score - he was there first and that's all good. But we have that version and we have the mastered too hot Varese - so it's great to be able to present something different and new, and something I'm hoping will really a) please people and b) make people reassess what I consider to be a great Jerry Goldsmith score.

 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2013 - 7:13 PM   
 By:   1980's Soundtrack Whore   (Member)

I don't own any of the previous releases so this is an easy purchase for me. Looks to be the best version to own too, Bravo Kritzerland!

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2013 - 8:07 PM   
 By:   jwb   (Member)

Interesting that this release has such drama. First MV says it was a waste of time and gave it away as sloppy seconds. Then Roger comes out and says his release is better without hearing the new release, but at least gave out a compliment saying the new release would sound better than the Varese. This is all interesting coming from Roger who not very long ago also said this:

Look, my point here is for those that care and don't like to support stuff that may not be on the level, take note. Labels like LaLa, Quartet, Music Box -- just to name a few -- are run by stand up guys with a commitment to doing things right and well. I'd spent a lot of time searching for the complete Santa Claus score...but never did. Jose found them and put it out. When I heard about it at first I was a little disappointed that we weren't doing it

Clearly there is a lot of ego in the film soundtrack business.

 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2013 - 8:27 PM   
 By:   Altamese   (Member)

Oh dear. Doug F has just chimed in with a very interesting post

I don't know if it's plagiarism, but it's bad form to quote someone's text from their own message board.

Where it could hardly be self-serving, as Bruce said, since it *is* his own messageboard. (SElf serving would be Bruce asking someone to post a link to his screed on Varese from his blog here, instead of doing it himself....)

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2013 - 8:38 PM   
 By:   Matt S.   (Member)

Interesting that this release has such drama. First MV says it was a waste of time and gave it away as sloppy seconds. Then Roger comes out and says his release is better without hearing the new release, but at least gave out a compliment saying the new release would sound better than the Varese. This is all interesting coming from Roger who not very long ago also said this:

Look, my point here is for those that care and don't like to support stuff that may not be on the level, take note. Labels like LaLa, Quartet, Music Box -- just to name a few -- are run by stand up guys with a commitment to doing things right and well. I'd spent a lot of time searching for the complete Santa Claus score...but never did. Jose found them and put it out. When I heard about it at first I was a little disappointed that we weren't doing it

Clearly there is a lot of ego in the film soundtrack business.


There certainly is professional pride, and there's nothing wrong with that. I would expect everyone who runs a label, whether it's Doug, MV, Bruce, Lukas, Townson, or anyone else, to stand by their product. The problem lies in the "re-releases," where each one is different than the last. Label A releases a score, it eventually goes out of print, and Label B comes along, remasters it, expands it, or changes it in other ways, and whether Label B comes right out and says it or not, there's certainly the implication that Label A's version was flawed and therefore inferior, which might understandably rankle Label A's people.

And like others have said, this is an artistic medium where everything is subjective, anyway. Intrada is Doug's company, so he has the right to put out whatever he wants. Kritzerland is Bruce's, and he can do the same. If Bruce was perfectly happy with the Intrada version, he simply could have re-released it as-is just to cash in on the fact that it's been OOP for so long. But he made personal, artistic decisions regarding the sound, and spent extra money to remaster it. Neither Bruce nor Doug is "right" or "wrong." That's entirely up to the people paying money to buy the product. Some will like Intrada's version, some will like Kritzerland's. Some will like the Varese.

Me, I've never heard any version of this score so I will happily buy Kritzerland's when it comes out.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2013 - 8:43 PM   
 By:   Matt S.   (Member)

Oh dear. Doug F has just chimed in with a very interesting post

I don't know if it's plagiarism, but it's bad form to quote someone's text from their own message board.

Where it could hardly be self-serving, as Bruce said, since it *is* his own messageboard. (SElf serving would be Bruce asking someone to post a link to his screed on Varese from his blog here, instead of doing it himself....)


That happens all the time. Roger and Doug don't post on FSM, but they must know full well that their posts are re-posted here, for the benefit of those who don't read Intrada's forum. If they had a problem with it, I would think they would have said something before now, or asked people not to do it. I don't see the difference, anyway, it's the internet, after all. Nothing is private.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2013 - 9:56 PM   
 By:   haineshisway   (Member)

Oh dear. Doug F has just chimed in with a very interesting post

I don't know if it's plagiarism, but it's bad form to quote someone's text from their own message board.

Where it could hardly be self-serving, as Bruce said, since it *is* his own messageboard. (SElf serving would be Bruce asking someone to post a link to his screed on Varese from his blog here, instead of doing it himself....)


And like clockwork. Thanks so much for joining the party and making such a valuable contribution. You are, if anything, continually predictable.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2013 - 10:35 PM   
 By:   MikeyKW   (Member)

In a way, it's good to see the labels having such a passionate "discussion" -- obviously they are passionate about preserving and presenting these scores in the way they see best. I'm excited to see someone is having another crack at Poltergeist 2 as this is an underappreciated score that needs rediscovery, and the most available version (Varese) has that shrill, overcooked sound. Kritzerland has a good track record, and I trust their judgment. I'm sure if the elements they used were genuinely unsuitable for CD master, they wouldn't have used them. To second guess them at this point seems a little ridiculous. For me, $19.99 for a 2 CD set of is a no-brainer. I just hope I can snag a copy before they disappear.

 
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