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Posted: |
May 4, 2012 - 3:00 AM
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By: |
JSWalsh
(Member)
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"... though it may well--horror of horrors--have had a hand in its failure. "
pp312,
I agree. As I sat there, appreciating the look of the movie and what the moviemakers were TRYING to do, the music kept me OUT of the movie. It's like I spent the two hours trying all the doors of a house in order to get in, and Alex North was running around inside locking them.  The music was just so inappropriate I was never able to lose myself in the story.
That may be innovative, but I don't think it's a smart way to score a movie if you're trying to get an audience into the spirit of the thing. Maybe we were supposed to sit back and enjoy it all ironically or something. I may just be too simple to do that, but then again, I didn't lose millions of dollars on what should have been a box office hit--a fantasy adventure in a time when audiences were gobbling those up, about one of the most basic fantasy ideas, brilliantly realized by the FX and art direction departments, betrayed by the script and score.
What good is an innovative score if it fails at its purpose, which is to help the film it was written to accompany?
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Posted: |
May 4, 2012 - 8:02 AM
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By: |
Heath
(Member)
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I see that most of the "supporters" have become bored and drifted away, allowing the score to speak eloquently to those who understand its language. Probably sensible.
All I might add is that the reason some people here couldn't "lose" themselves in the movie was not because of North's music. Rather, the fact that the film was miscast from top to bottom is the more likely reason (even Ralph Richardson who was actually a tad too doddery for the part by then). That was a huge hurdle over which NO composer could leap.
It's a great score that works hard for a fundamentally flawed film. I think the two things are being confused here.
Even the score's harshest critics might acknowledge that it has, at the very least, the power to provoke spicy debate three decades after its creation. Such a thing is usually a sign that a significant work of art has been created. 
I don't see much passionate discussion around here about Conan, Krull or Willow or whatever sword n sorcery movie and score - they were perfectly reasonable scores from what I remember, but which took the path of least resistence, obeyed all the genre rules, and consequently faded with their movies into history.
North's score, on the other hand, seems to have obtained a life beyond the movie it was written for.
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Posted: |
May 4, 2012 - 8:21 AM
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By: |
Rozsaphile
(Member)
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"The application of many of these troubling cues to the film is an "in your face" saturation of the soundscape, causing North to distract the viewer from some scenes rather than tastefully compliment [sic] them. The "dissonance by default" method of scoring . . .
theme for the amulet, which structurally is fine, but is enunciated with such dainty, ridiculous instrumental tones . . .
From the scherzo in "Forest Romp" to the entirety of the finale and end credits merging of the amulet theme with the primary love theme, North writes material suitable for a 1960's backyard romantic comedy. It's disgracefully out of place, with a plucky personality of harpsichord, violins, metallic percussion, and high woodwinds . . .
otherwise tiring, abrasive, and awkward listening experience . . .
While distractingly silly, the spirited, upbeat, and rejected chase cue in "Galen's Escape" and more lyrical presentation with fluttering woodwinds and cheery percussion in the aforementioned finale are at least a break from the gloom and doom. But moments like the terrible dissonance in "The Lottery," imitating the shrieking of a female voice over tolling bell, cause Dragonslayer to annoy more often than not. . . .
In its addressing of synchronization points, the score completely misses the mark, playing like an extended classical concert piece rather than a film score. Distinct cue changes are rare, thematic statements are often veiled, and inconsistent pacing in the score fails to allow the action sequences to really stir up much excitement.
I'm trying to extract the substance of this review's criticism. On the one hand, the writer disapproves of "dainty" and "plucky" sonorities. In other contexts he dislikes the "gloom and doom" and the "terrible dissonance." That covers a lot of ground. I wonder what sonorities he would be judge to be appropriate? The film, after all, does exhibit a variety of moods. The very last quoted sentence is incomprehensible to me. What are "distinct cue changes"? What's wrong with "veiled" thematic statements? Does he want things to be more obvious? The criticism concerning "synchronization points" sounds reasonable, but we would have to access the movie to address it.
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Even the score's harshest critics might acknowledge that it has, at the very least, the power to provoke spicy debate three decades after its creation. Such a thing is usually a sign that a significant work of art has been created.
Missed it again, Einstein. As regards the topic at hand -- the question "Is DRAGONSLAYER (the music score) art?" is completely irrelevant. No one has argued that it isn't, or that Alex North was an untalented piker. The issues seem to be (a) did the score support/explain/uplift the film, as film scores are commonly expected to do, vs. distract/confuse the audience as to the film's intentions? and (b) secondarily, is it a pleasing/exciting listening experience apart from the film? If the film misses its mark, shouldn't the score clarify and enhance, as opposed to throwing more fuel on the fire of confusion?
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Posted: |
May 4, 2012 - 9:21 AM
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By: |
Tom Servo
(Member)
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I see that most of the "supporters" have become bored and drifted away, allowing the score to speak eloquently to those who understand its language. Probably sensible.
All I might add is that the reason some people here couldn't "lose" themselves in the movie was not because of North's music. Rather, the fact that the film was miscast from top to bottom is the more likely reason (even Ralph Richardson who was actually a tad too doddery for the part by then). That was a huge hurdle over which NO composer could leap.
It's a great score that works hard for a fundamentally flawed film. I think the two things are being confused here.
Even the score's harshest critics might acknowledge that it has, at the very least, the power to provoke spicy debate three decades after its creation. Such a thing is usually a sign that a significant work of art has been created.
I don't see much passionate discussion around here about Conan, Krull or Willow or whatever sword n sorcery movie and score - they were perfectly reasonable scores from what I remember, but which took the path of least resistence, obeyed all the genre rules, and consequently faded with their movies into history.
North's score, on the other hand, seems to have obtained a life beyond the movie it was written for.
I think CONAN THE BARBARIAN, much like THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK, is one of those few genre scores where pretty much everyone and their brother all agree about how great it is. Thus there isn't really much debate about it, but not because it took a path of least resistance. I find that it broke some ground rules in simply how upfront that score is during the film, that it pretty much solely propels the first 20 minutes and is allowed to full thematic development at various times. I actually think CONAN and DRAGONSLAYER are both high points in the genre of sci-fi/fantasy film scores, but for different reasons. As for KRULL, it does play more by the accepted rules of the genre, but still manages to be a genuinely and absolutely engaging, rousing piece of music that I also count as a favorite.
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When the film came out there was UNANIMOUS praise among film score fans.
I remember going to the iNTRADA store in SF and discussing its greatness w/Doug Fake and other fans.
A bit of history for the young'uns
bruce
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I believe the music suffered from some cue misplacements/replacements in the film and also from some mislabeling on the LP version. An article in CinemaScore magazine detailed the problems. I've got it somewhere. In the meantime, can anybody direct me to an online clarification of the issues?
This is the article John:
https://cnmsarchive.wordpress.com/2013/08/05/notes-on-dragonslayer/
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Alex North's score to DRAGONSLAYER is at times a brilliant piece of film scoring that we just don't see (or more accurately HEAR) anymore. In particular, the music for Ulrich's Death and the Funeral Pyre combined with the visuals still give me the chills!
To answer Jeff Bond's open question to all of us, I saw DRAGONSLAYER in the fall of 1981 at the Mann Hollywood (now used for something else) on a secondary run, double-feature with WOLFEN--both presented in 70mm six-track Dolby Stereo. That was one cool evening that I often recall with great fondness.
I too have that wonderful audiophile, 45rpm, 2-LP numbered set. I loved that a score by one of the true greats like North got a special, high-end LP release. I still break it out here and there to take a listen, admire it's packaging and remember its significance in the pantheon of Alex North film scores. BTW, Love the La-La Land CD, truly a definitive presentation.
My North favs:
THE AGONY AND THE ECSTASY
SPARTACUS
DRAGONSLAYER
CHEYENNE AUTUMN
2001
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If anything, this thread made me go back to the score which I hadn't listened to in years. I have always loved North's Dragonslayer, but listening to it today made me realize just how much of an amazing work it truly is.
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ditto for me -- this thread gave me the impulse to pull out the score (er, rather click on it in my iTunes library) and give it a listen. One of my all time favorite North scores - regardless of it's dissonance and atonal qualities.
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ditto for me -- this thread gave me the impulse to pull out the score (er, rather click on it in my iTunes library) and give it a listen. One of my all time favorite North scores - regardless of it's dissonance and atonal qualities.
It's one of my favorites because of its dissonance!
Very well said!
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ditto for me -- this thread gave me the impulse to pull out the score (er, rather click on it in my iTunes library) and give it a listen. One of my all time favorite North scores - regardless of it's dissonance and atonal qualities.
It's one of my favorites because of its dissonance!
Very well said!
And sorry for the double post. I agree wholeheartedly - if I'm being totally honest - it is the dissonance and atonalities of North's score for DRAGONSLAYER that gets under my skin - in a good way.
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i still think CLEOPATRA is a snoozefest!
bruce
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