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Actually, the tapes for BARNABY JONES should exist, for there exists a bootleg
with the "entire" score!
Knowing the rules on bootleg discussion, let me instead make a general statement regarding what you might find on such releases:
Just because you can find something older that's not been released, and there are missing masters, doesn't mean the masters are not missing.
The material may have been culled from a casette, LP, or a dub at the time before the masters went missing, and were since transfered to CD-R.
Now, I can tell you it's likely some composers who ghostwrote for the show, like Ralph Kessler, likely have tapes in their collection. One just needs to find out where those respective collections are now.
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I've finished an update on my original list, and added a number of titles including the unreleased H.E.L.P. and Brotherhood of the Gun (Hollister) which were scored by Joel Goldsmith but for which Jerry provided themes.
Yavar
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Posted: |
Mar 21, 2013 - 11:18 AM
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By: |
SchiffyM
(Member)
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The material may have been culled from a casette, LP, or a dub at the time before the masters went missing, and were since transfered to CD-R.
Quite true. I would also add that what currently survives is a fluid situation. Several CDs in the last year or two have been sourced from tapes that eight or ten years ago would have been considered unsalvageable. Technology has advanced.
Also, unless you have in your possession what you can prove to be the only existing recording of a score, and you then toss it off a bridge, we can only make educated guesses as to what survives. Granted, most of these guesses (made by experts, not by us) are probably accurate. But surprises do happen, and thus we have Kritzerland's stereo "David and Bathsheba," formerly thought lost.
I'm fond of telling this story, just because I have a friend who was there at the time who told me, but the masters of a popular score were found in an unmarked box under the desk of a low level assistant in a studio office far from their headquarters. Thanks to this discovery, that score has now been released on CD. What was it doing there? Who knows?
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Now, I can tell you it's likely some composers who ghostwrote for the show, like Ralph Kessler, likely have tapes in their collection. One just needs to find out where those respective collections are now.
Why are they more likely to have these tapes than any other composer, or studio?
Sometimes these composers will get their own private dubs. Either for their own archive or to use the music for promotional purposes. Same, sometimes, for the mixers and certain engineers at the sessions. Somebody may want to find out who the people were who worked on the show over the years, and see what they may have hiding in a closet or strage shed.
And yes, sometimes master tapes do turn up. In the last year and-a-half Intrada, for example, has release two scores which just a few years prior they wanted to do, but the masters tapes could not be found. The recent Rosenman rejected score was one.
Of course, this is speculation incase the tapes don't exist for BJ. So far, I've not seen any word they don't.
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I've gone ahead and added Goldsmith's rejected score to Babe, as Dan Goldwasser apparently confirmed it was recorded... (?)
Yavar
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I've gone ahead and added Goldsmith's rejected score to Babe, as Dan Goldwasser apparently confirmed it was recorded... (?)
Yavar
No, as I recall it was here at FSM (or maybe MovieMusic) that he said demos (been a while -- don't quite recall). A reader of my site e-mailed me and found an article where he [Jerry] said it was recorded.
Don't forget the mostly recorded score to "Domestic Disturbance".
Are you counting his other TV series scoring?
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The year was 2001. (rejected score)
http://rejectedfilmscores.150m.com/list.html
And for anybody who might be in the know:
Could I be wrong, or is "Looney Toons: Back In Action" complete? As in, his complete score, since Debney did some scoring since Jerry was ill, and Frizzell scored one thing (a cartoon within the film, as I recall).
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According to Dan Goldwasser (who was at the recording sessions):
"This is an alright album - the score worked better in the film, but the problem there was that the sound mix was so low, you couldn't hear the music half the time. There's also plenty of music missing from the album (beyond Debney's contribution) and as a result, it feels like there are gaping holes in the listening experience. Completists and Goldsmith fans need apply only."
http://www.soundtrack.net/albums/database/?id=3387
How many Goldsmith albums included his complete score from the get-go? A Patch of Blue?
Yavar
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Well, this was a special case since he didn't write all of it, and it wasn't a ton of scoring (like "Air Force One" where he didn't write all of it). That is why I asked.
EDIT:
BSOSpirit interview reply:
"Well my music appears on the end of the film is quite a bit of the last reel. I was contacted to come in and work with Jerry, because he wasn’t feeling so well…it was an incredible honour for me to have been asked to work on that film, and I did… I came in and helped out in the end of the movie…"
And IMDb shows 18 songs/score/classical pieces used, including the "Gremlin's Rag" from "Gremlins". And the film runs 91 minutes.
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Another one bites the dust!
"Seven Days in May -- Hoping someone puts this out, paired with the rejected Amram score and perhaps some other goodies to fill out the disc. This is strongly suspected to be one of the soon-to-come Goldsmith releases from Intrada..."
(Lukas, thanks again for explaining why the Amram was not included in the release thread.)
Yavar
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So over a month ago Roger at Intrada said the following:
"And we'll be knocking out another 5 or 6 Goldsmith titles in the next few weeks. Some revisits, some premieres. Turned into a very Goldsmith heavy season for some reason."
(he later revised the number to 5...not sure why but who knows there might be a 6th floating around soon too).
We've gotten 3 of these titles, so there are at least two left from Intrada in the near future. Roger also told us they'd be paired, and since Seven Days in May was paired with Jarre's Mackintosh Man, it's likely that the remaining two will be paired together (meaning they have the same owners)...though there's an outside chance that each of the remaining two Goldsmith scores will be paired separately with scores by other composers.
In two "Doug's Corner" entries on March 29th, Doug accidentally gave us a clue which turned out not to be for the recently announced titles but for one of the releases coming next:
"we are bringing you some terrific music from the sixties, all in stereo. Up with one of the CDs is a fantastic action score getting it's world premiere complete release, with lots of music being released for the first time ever. Rounding out that CD's program is another cool title by the same composer."
I think it may be that this is the Goldsmith two-fer (though it isn't necessarily). Since the second title "rounding out the program" is pretty vague on details (aside from it being "cool" and by the same composer -- depending on how you interpret the wording it may not even be from the 60s) it's probably best if for now we focus on trying to figure out the first title, "a fantastic action score getting it's world premiere complete release, with lots of music being released for the first time ever."
Though they seemed likely to come out soon when Roger announced the bunch of Goldsmith we'd be getting, I don't think the two Flint scores (the LP recordings of course, Varese owns the film recordings forever) are a good possibility after all at this point, though we know Intrada is working on them and we'll get them eventually. They might fit the description (plenty of action and "cool") but the "world premiere complete release" obviously doesn't fit.
So...might it be The Chairman, complete from whatever mono tape source Varese used for the suite in the Fox box? There's certainly a good chunk of music missing, and that would be super exciting for me. Might also explain why it was *sort-of* announced as being next up for a complete re-recording in the new Tadlow Goldsmith series, but then kinda backed off on.
Another possibility is a twofer of the two Sinatra titles from the Fox Box: Von Ryan's Express and The Detective, but I wouldn't say there's nearly as much music missing from them and they don't quite fit the "action score" description as well.
There's also an outside chance, though it would seem a bit early to revisit, that in the intervening years since Paramount opened its vaults the full original tapes for In Harm's Way have surfaced.
What do you guys think? Perhaps it isn't Goldsmith at all...
Yavar
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As I understand it, The Trouble With Angels album was actually a re-recording, so the original tracks have never been released. I don't think I'd classify it as an action score though, so very unlikely it's the one coming up in two weeks from Intrada. However, Roger did say the following when I asked for some additional details:
"The next five Goldsmith titles (on three albums) are paired and in SC. We have some more farther out that will be by themselves."
I suspect Angels wouldn't be paired with anything because they'd hopefully do a release of the original tracks PLUS the remastered rerecording (ie. like their new Bernstein Carpetbaggers release). So hopefully that's one of the ones Intrada has "farther out" that will be by itself...
Yavar
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As I understand it, The Trouble With Angels album was actually a re-recording, so the original tracks have never been released. I don't think I'd classify it as an action score though, so very unlikely it's the one coming up in two weeks from Intrada. However, Roger did say the following when I asked for some additional details:
"The next five Goldsmith titles (on three albums) are paired and in SC. We have some more farther out that will be by themselves."
I suspect Angels wouldn't be paired with anything because they'd hopefully do a release of the original tracks PLUS the remastered rerecording (ie. like their new Bernstein Carpetbaggers release). So hopefully that's one of the ones Intrada has "farther out" that will be by itself...
Yavar
Frankly, my only disappointment is the initial release of "Seconds" that deserves better.
On the MIA front, here are my absolute grails:
"In Harm's Way"
"Hour of the Gun"
"The Chairman"
"The Last Run"
"Shamus"
On the C&C front, find my wishlist:
"Sebastian"
"The Other"
"The Mephisto Waltz"
"Chinatown"
"Damnation Alley"
On the premiere front, find:
"The Reincarnation of Peter Proud"
The Chairman trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HjoQcphpic
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