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This is a comments thread about FSM CD: Body Heat
 
 Posted:   Aug 21, 2012 - 10:28 AM   
 By:   Mr. Marshall   (Member)

BODY HEAT is an excellent score -- one of only two Barry albums I've retained. This will make three. But I'm intrigued by this comment:

The score’s haunting main theme is sexy, seductive and a little sad—a throwback to ’40s noir music yet more knowing and modern. At its heart is a jazz quartet

There seems to be a widespread belief that the soulful wailing jazz saxophone typifies the film noir scores of the 1940s. But is that really true? Or have people just been bamboozled by Guy Noir and similar modern parodies? ....."?


I made this same point in a seperate thread
bruce

 
 Posted:   Aug 21, 2012 - 12:22 PM   
 By:   DavidinBerkeley   (Member)

It was 1981 and disco was still out there.

So don't miss Theme Demo #9 for a cool, 1981 version of the main theme!

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 21, 2012 - 12:31 PM   
 By:   quiller007   (Member)

There seems to be a widespread belief that the soulful wailing jazz saxophone typifies the film noir scores of the 1940s. But is that really true? Or have people just been bamboozled by Guy Noir and similar modern parodies? The most prominent composers for those forties films were Webb, Rozsa, Steiner, and Waxman. I'm hard pressed to think of any of their forties scores that make much use of a jazz sax. Barry's treatment is naturally different. But how on earth is is "more knowing"?


Film Noir was still going strong throughout the 50's.
Probably two noirish films (and scores) that were more influential
on modern composers who utilized the sax as a foreground instrument
were A PLACE IN THE SUN (Waxman) and THE BAD AND THE BEAUTIFUL (Raksin).
Imo, these two scores were the kickstarters for the sultry and sexy sax sound
that is usually associated with these types of dramas. Add to that Alex North's
increasing use of the instrument for many of his jazz-influenced scores for
all of those sweaty and sultry southern melodramas produced during the 50's.

BODY HEAT also owes a lot to Goldsmith's CHINATOWN and Shire's
FAREWELL, MY LOVELY. Those two were probably the trendsetters
of the neo-noir movement. And if you want to go closer to home,
Barry's PETULIA score is really the big brother (sister?) of BODY HEAT.

To put it simply....."more knowing" = "more honest". "More honest" =
saxophone. Saxophone = SEXOPHONE. What was Barry supposed to
use? Bagpipes? big grin

Den

 
 Posted:   Aug 21, 2012 - 12:36 PM   
 By:   mildcigar   (Member)

The Complete Score to Body Heat.

Magnificent.

Cheers.

 
 Posted:   Aug 21, 2012 - 1:00 PM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

Rabbit out of hat cool

 
 Posted:   Aug 21, 2012 - 1:59 PM   
 By:   1980's Soundtrack Whore   (Member)

Never seen this movie so not familiar with the score, but I enjoyed the samples so ordered.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 21, 2012 - 2:21 PM   
 By:   eggerty31   (Member)

Wonderful. Ordered along with Masquerade & Hammett - Barry fest ahead.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 21, 2012 - 2:51 PM   
 By:   Rozsaphile   (Member)

There seems to be a widespread belief that the soulful wailing jazz saxophone typifies the film noir scores of the 1940s. But is that really true? Or have people just been bamboozled by Guy Noir and similar modern parodies? The most prominent composers for those forties films were Webb, Rozsa, Steiner, and Waxman. I'm hard pressed to think of any of their forties scores that make much use of a jazz sax. Barry's treatment is naturally different. But how on earth is [it] "more knowing"?


Film Noir was still going strong throughout the 50's.
Probably two noirish films (and scores) that were more influential
on modern composers who utilized the sax as a foreground instrument
were A PLACE IN THE SUN (Waxman) and THE BAD AND THE BEAUTIFUL (Raksin).
Imo, these two scores were the kickstarters for the sultry and sexy sax sound
that is usually associated with these types of dramas. Add to that Alex North's
increasing use of the instrument for many of his jazz-influenced scores for
all of those sweaty and sultry southern melodramas produced during the 50's.

BODY HEAT also owes a lot to Goldsmith's CHINATOWN and Shire's
FAREWELL, MY LOVELY. Those two were probably the trendsetters
of the neo-noir movement. And if you want to go closer to home,
Barry's PETULIA score is really the big brother (sister?) of BODY HEAT.

To put it simply....."more knowing" = "more honest". "More honest" =
saxophone. Saxophone = SEXOPHONE. What was Barry supposed to
use? Bagpipes? big grin

Den


I agree that all of the later scores could have been influential in this regard. You might even add the following year's (1982) BLADE RUNNER to the neo-noir saxophone tradition, although I suppose (?) the instrument was synthesized in that one. But the writer (and many other writers) said "forties noir," and that's the mysterious misapprehension I was getting at. It's a curious thing how people have come to associate with the 1940s a sound that was rarely heard during that decade. As to the saxophone (named for inventor Adolphe Sax) being more "knowing" than other instruments, I'm as mystified as ever!

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 21, 2012 - 4:06 PM   
 By:   quiller007   (Member)

I agree that all of the later scores could have been influential in this regard. You might even add the following year's (1982) BLADE RUNNER to the neo-noir saxophone tradition, although I suppose (?) the instrument was synthesized in that one. But the writer (and many other writers) said "forties noir," and that's the mysterious misapprehension I was getting at. It's a curious thing how people have come to associate with the 1940s a sound that was rarely heard during that decade. As to the saxophone (named for inventor Adolphe Sax) being more "knowing" than other instruments, I'm as mystified as ever!


I forgot one: Herrmann's TAXI DRIVER was another influential score on the
neo-noir movement.

It's just that the saxophone is usually associated with stories or films
with a seedy urban setting, and the denizens of the night that populate
these types of films. Whether or not Rozsa (the primary composer of classic
40's noir films) actually ever used the sax as a primary instrument in his
scores, is irrelevant. Crime stories with underworld characters and
the saxophone were made for each other, even though the musician
or composer who invented the instrument certainly never could have
forseen or intended this "marriage" or crime/sex/saxophone image
that is imbedded in 20th century pop culture. It has become cliched,
but it's a cliche that always seems to work.

It was basically the blues and jazz era that started it all. And that
era was always associated with big city life, glamorous nightclubs
and later on, small, sleazy bars. And those settings were always
used in 40's noir films.

Den

 
 Posted:   Aug 21, 2012 - 4:52 PM   
 By:   Mr. Marshall   (Member)

CHINATOWN & BODY HEAT (and FAREWELL, MY LOVELY to a lesser extent) created the false impression of how noir music sounded.
The endless parodies that use that type of music -usually accompanied by a Bogart sound-alike spewing 'hard-boiled' dialog- are actually parodying the the parodies/hommages of the 70's and 80's
brm

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 21, 2012 - 9:40 PM   
 By:   Alex Klein   (Member)

eekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeekeek

 
 Posted:   Aug 21, 2012 - 10:36 PM   
 By:   Steve Johnson   (Member)

Our pal Alex- speechless again. big grin




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 Posted:   Aug 21, 2012 - 11:07 PM   
 By:   Jörn   (Member)

Maybe someone can explain me whats the different about the original BODY HEAT Southern Cross LP (wich I owned for many years) and the soundtrack album that Barry was to released and wich is called "never released" in the FSM describtion of theire new album?

Does the Southern Cross album not contained the original tracks or just simply Barry wasnt involved in the album production?


By the way: Iam very happy, that FSM released BODY HEAT and not KING KONG (again).
It seems to me, that the last few FSM-CDs are (and will be), truly special and great titles (a re-issiue of KONG after just a short time wouldn`t be really something great. Let`s release a2-CD set of KONG by another label).

 
 Posted:   Aug 21, 2012 - 11:30 PM   
 By:   Stephen Woolston   (Member)

Maybe someone can explain me whats the different about the original BODY HEAT Southern Cross LP (wich I owned for many years) and the soundtrack album that Barry was to released and wich is called "never released" in the FSM describtion of theire new album?


It's in the product page. You have to read down a few paragraphs. It's also been commented on in the thread. You have to read back a few posts.

Basically, John Barry and Dan Wallin created an album program and mix. Lasher didn't want to pay so he made his own. The program is ever-so-slightly different — the Lasher program contained 'Glasses' for example — and the mix was his own. Certain things were mixed higher than Barry wanted and certain other things mixed lower. Barry didn't approve.

Cheers

 
 Posted:   Aug 21, 2012 - 11:44 PM   
 By:   Stephen Woolston   (Member)

Here's a fuller comparison of the Lasher and Barry programs:

The Lasher Program

1. Ladd Company Logo / Main Title
2. I'm Weak
3. Chapeau Gratis
4. Heather (which is actually "Busted")
5. I'm Frightened
6. Kill For Pussy
7. Us and Oscar
8. Surprise / Explosion
9. Heather and Roz
10. Glasses
11. Better Get Him
12. Matty Was Mary Ann

The Barry program

1. Main Title
2. I'm Weak
3. Chapeau Gratis
4. Hey Lady
5. Busted
6. Kill for Pussy
7. I'm Frightened
8. Surprise
9. Us and Oscar
10. Oscar
11. Problem
12. Better Get Him
13. Matty Was Mary Ann

The differences:

The Lasher program includes the Ladd logo in the title track.

The Barry program includes Hey Lady and Problem

The Lasher program includes Glasses, Explosion and Heather and Roz

(Although the sample of 'Problem' sounds like it's repetition of the same material as used in 'Heather and Roz'.)

The Barry program version of Kill For Pussy appears to be shortened, but the Lasher program seems to have the full length version.

The Lasher version of Us and Oscar seems to be longer than the Barry version.

Cheers

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2012 - 1:47 AM   
 By:   tony weeks   (Member)

Thank you FSM, you have made me a very happy person ( which proves Body Heat is special as I'm usually a very grumpy person these days ).

 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2012 - 1:59 AM   
 By:   Stephen Woolston   (Member)

Incidentally, if anyone *hasn't* seen the film, I hope the title of the last track doesn't give the ending away, LOL!!!

Cheers

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2012 - 5:59 AM   
 By:   Rozsaphile   (Member)

CHINATOWN & BODY HEAT (and FAREWELL, MY LOVELY to a lesser extent) created the false impression of how noir music sounded.
The endless parodies that use that type of music -usually accompanied by a Bogart sound-alike spewing 'hard-boiled' dialog- are actually parodying the the parodies/hommages of the 70's and 80's
brm


Yes, I think Mr. Marshall has just about nailed it. Interesting phenomenon. Somebody once pointed out a very few forties scores that feature this sort of "lounge jazz" sound. Maybe something by Roy Webb? But on the whole it's a kind of creative misunderstanding. Reminds me of the way David Raksin used a Handelian pastiche style for a movie, FOREVER AMBER, set nearly a century before Handel's time. Sometimes you just give the audience what it expects.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2012 - 6:03 AM   
 By:   Dorian   (Member)

Incidentally, if anyone *hasn't* seen the film, I hope the title of the last track doesn't give the ending away, LOL!!!

Cheers


Actually that's exactly what happened to me here. I hate it when track titles contain plot spoilers!!

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2012 - 6:27 AM   
 By:   Doug Raynes   (Member)

CHINATOWN & BODY HEAT (and FAREWELL, MY LOVELY to a lesser extent) created the false impression of how noir music sounded.
The endless parodies that use that type of music -usually accompanied by a Bogart sound-alike spewing 'hard-boiled' dialog- are actually parodying the the parodies/hommages of the 70's and 80's
brm


Yes, I think Mr. Marshall has just about nailed it. Interesting phenomenon. Somebody once pointed out a very few forties scores that feature this sort of "lounge jazz" sound. Maybe something by Roy Webb? But on the whole it's a kind of creative misunderstanding. Reminds me of the way David Raksin used a Handelian pastiche style for a movie, FOREVER AMBER, set nearly a century before Handel's time. Sometimes you just give the audience what it expects.



What’s curious is that the makers of the film originally asked Miklos Rozsa to score the film so they must have been thinking of a traditional noir score of the type which Rozsa composed. Yet, one could hardly think of a composer with a more contrasting style than John Barry; neither was it an obvious subject for Barry, even though he turned out an evocative, perfectly matched score.

I’m surprised at how many people have never seen the film. Along with CHINATOWN this is classic post ‘40s noir; brilliantly atmospheric with great dialogue and direction. To get the most from the score I’d recommend watching the film before listening to the music.

 
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