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double post
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A quick summary of this thread:
- Hans Zimmer is a well-respected, hard-working and inspired film composer
- Hans Zimmer is the end of the film score world
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Hans Zimmer is a talented man. I like some of his music. Of course a collaborative spirit is necessary when scoring a film, and filmmakers' demands do sometimes result in better scores (compare Jerry Goldsmith's first stab at Star Trek: The Motion Picture to his final score).
Nevertheless, if every film composer had cow-towed to filmmakers' whims as much as Hans Zimmer does:
Ben-Hur would have used "Oh Come, All Ye Faithful" in the nativity scene.
Psycho would have been a light jazz score (with no music in the shower scene).
Fantastic Voyage would also have been a jazz score.
Jaws would have sounded like Images.
Star Wars would have had classical music in many scenes.
Witness would have used Pachelbel's Canon in the barn-raising sequence.
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A quick summary of this thread:
- Hans Zimmer is a well-respected, hard-working and inspired film composer
- Hans Zimmer is the end of the film score world
-- Anyone who dares to raise valid points should be ignored or conveniently labelled a troll.
Actually, I think you and I see eye to eye more than you think. The purpose of posting this was to illustrate the system that governs a lot of the end product that comes out. The original post from this fella who worked in RC paints a very vivid picture. Yes, I totally think it's reverential. Would I be doing the same thing if I had earn my bread and butter working full time as a musician in Hollywood? You bet.
it would be interesting to see how many of us who have jobs not in the entertainment industry would take our own high minded advice and tell our bosses to stick it when we were mandated to do something that was outside our own ethics. Those who do I'm sure find themselves in the unemployment line quite often.
Most of us have families, mortgages, kids to feed, bills to pay. It's a naive and romanticized ideal that we can live and die by the sword in the name of higher ethics or morality.
I think that's the best way for me to wrap up my contributions to this thread. It's been interesting but more in a morbid sociological way than a music one.
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David - Thank you very much for sharing that fascinating article.
-Erik-
Okay one last post- you're welcome Erik. And just to prove a point, Erik and I like a lot of the same scores but also disagree on others. I have enormous respect for his opinions nonetheless. Same with Mark Olivarez. It's never been about all having a Woodstock love-fest but respecting and articulating contrary perspectives in a civil manner. [disclaimer- I won't pretend that I haven't acted inappropriately in the history of this forum so when I say this, I'm also reminding myself to be nicer]
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Posted: |
Jul 11, 2013 - 10:29 AM
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By: |
Neilbucket
(Member)
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I ache for civil discourse around here but if you can't go near a Zimmer thread without the same nonsense invading, then what the hell is the point.
By comparison, I never saw as much uncivilized behavior in a Goldsmith thread.
Perhaps that says something about Goldsmith and Zimmer, and their respective target audience, eh?
Not in the slightest. The vitriol that repeatedly surfaces in Zimmer related threads is unmatched across the forum. As a chief contributor to those threads, where your participation is largely attempts at snide humour or just flat out rudeness (and unabated snarky jibes), surely you see the correlation?
Interestingly enough, I have seen posts of yours that are interesting, where you put aside the desire to rail against Zimmer and produce solid contibutions to discussions - but they are so rare when there's a Zimmer thread you can argue back and forth in. I would much rather trade comments with that other version of you than the one that favours, what appears to me, a giddy lack of civility.
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Posted: |
Jul 11, 2013 - 10:38 AM
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By: |
facehugger
(Member)
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I ache for civil discourse around here but if you can't go near a Zimmer thread without the same nonsense invading, then what the hell is the point.
By comparison, I never saw as much uncivilized behavior in a Goldsmith thread.
Perhaps that says something about Goldsmith and Zimmer, and their respective target audience, eh?
Not in the slightest. The vitriol that repeatedly surfaces in Zimmer related threads is unmatched across the forum. As a chief contributor to those threads, where your participation is largely attempts at snide humour or just flat out rudeness (and unabated snarky jibes), surely you see the correlation?
Interestingly enough, I have seen posts of yours that are interesting, where you put aside the desire to rail against Zimmer and produce solid contibutions to discussions - but they are so rare when there's a Zimmer thread you can argue back and forth in. I would much rather trade comments with that other version of you than the one that favours, what appears to me, a giddy lack of civility.
Maybe it's "vitriol" in the eyes of Zimmer fanatics? For example, you might call YOR's pictures vitriol, but I find them perfectly funny. It's those fanatics who get knee jerky every time their god is not praised.
Perhaps you can try me, a devoted Goldsmith fan, by starting making fun of Goldsmith. See if I get mad at you and bite you like a pitbull. No sir. Every composer can be critised and only those insecure would defend their idol with the zeal of the Zimmer fanatics.
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Posted: |
Jul 11, 2013 - 10:50 AM
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By: |
Neilbucket
(Member)
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I ache for civil discourse around here but if you can't go near a Zimmer thread without the same nonsense invading, then what the hell is the point.
By comparison, I never saw as much uncivilized behavior in a Goldsmith thread.
Perhaps that says something about Goldsmith and Zimmer, and their respective target audience, eh?
Not in the slightest. The vitriol that repeatedly surfaces in Zimmer related threads is unmatched across the forum. As a chief contributor to those threads, where your participation is largely attempts at snide humour or just flat out rudeness (and unabated snarky jibes), surely you see the correlation?
Interestingly enough, I have seen posts of yours that are interesting, where you put aside the desire to rail against Zimmer and produce solid contibutions to discussions - but they are so rare when there's a Zimmer thread you can argue back and forth in. I would much rather trade comments with that other version of you than the one that favours, what appears to me, a giddy lack of civility.
Maybe it's "vitriol" in the eyes of Zimmer fanatics? For example, you might call YOR's pictures vitriol, but I find them perfectly funny. It's those fanatics who get knee jerky every time their god is not praised.
Perhaps you can try me, a devoted Goldsmith fan, by starting making fun of Goldsmith. See if I get mad at you and bite you like a pitbull. No sir. Every composer can be critised and only those insecure would defend their idol with the zeal of the Zimmer fanatics.
Case in point. No everyone who disapproves of your posts is a "Zimmer fanatic'. It's approaches like that which reduce your level of credibility. Dismissing peoples reactions to you as fanboy reactions is silly (as dismissing all Zimmer criticism as wrong as well). It is often not what is said, but how it is said, and not tolerating that is perfectly reasonable. I am sick and tired of it, not because all the points are invalid, but because the approach lacks civility and is brimmed with snark and unecessary rudeness.
I have no desire to 'test' your ability to take Goldmsith criticism - I can see your tenor by how you participate in threads like this one. You had a post in the "Why you STILL like soundtracks (film scores)' thread that was great. Become that person in threads like this and you will find that those you dismiss as Zimmer fanatics (which I suppose includes me since I am trying to rid these threads of such 'vitriol'), are willing to engage you in civil, reasonable debate.
As for Yor's images - I doubt anyone could frame them as vitriol - but in tandem with his persistent appearances mocking Zimmer (and those that enjoy his music) in Zimmer threads (and sometimes unrelated threads) become tiresome.
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