I was 11 years old when I saw STAR WARS. I remember clearly the feeling I had hearing the fanfare at the start of the film and the rest of the score that followed. I had seen films that had symphonic scores before like KING KONG, THE ADVENTURES OF ROBIN HOOD, GONE WITH THE WIND, THE WIZARD OF OZ, THE THIEF OF BAGDAD, BEN-HUR, LAWRENCE OR ARABIA etc. but it was STAR WARS that made me a film music fan. It was the first film with a score that made me tingle with excitement. I told my mom I had to have it and I got my wish (on 8-track no less!)
Soon, other films gave me that same feeling. Scores like SUPERMAN, the very next year by this mysterious sorcerer named Williams was one—but then other magicians started to ensnare me with their magic. Men named Goldsmith Barry, Bernstein, Poledouris. Some kid named Horner. Older films I had seen suddenly were made more lustrous by men named Korngold, Herrmann and Rózsa. New films were elevated by Elfman, Silvestri, Broughton and Kamen.
What I'm trying to say is that the music stood out. It was memorable. Distinctive. No one could mistake one composers' work for another. This happened ALL THE TIME. And the feeling I got from that first viewing of STAR WARS was still there. As soon as the movie was over I had to have the album.
Now, this almost never happens. Goldmith, Barry, Bernstein and Poledouris are dead. The films I see now are worthless as far as their scores are concerned. The music is dull. Boring. Gone are the hummable melodies, the lush orchestrations and harmonies. Zimmer has poisoned everything.
I remember the first time I heard his music. It was for BACKDRAFT. I remember thinking at the time that here was yet another distinctive voice in the world of film music. But then, slowly, perniciously, he began to destroy everything that I loved about film music. Now all I hear are simple pop music chord progressions under either wailing women, walls of low brass, simple string ostinatos or thundering percussion. It's everywhere. And where it isn't its effects are STILL felt. Giacchino's score for MEDAL OF HONOR was glorious. STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS, not so much. Do I blame Michael? Hell, no. When he's allowed to, he can still write great music. I get the feeling that him and others like him (Desplat and McCreary) would LOVE to compose music like their idols but aren't allowed to in the current climate.
Hans Zimmer is successful because he knows how to bullshit his directors into thinking that what he's doing is cutting edge awesome. Oh, listen to this Nolan, it's called a minor third! Or, it's nine hours of a guy playing a single note on a cello! Won't it be great for the Joker? Fuck you, Hans. Fuck you. We had John Williams and the London Symphony Orchestra. Now, we've got you and Sheila E. Go fuck yourself.
But no, here's Thor Haga to tell me that all is well, you're just imagining it all. Guys like James Horner, Danny Elfman, Richard Kraft and Jon Burlingame don't know what the fuck they're talking about. Film music is alive and well! Rejoice!
Bull. Shit.
The last time I took notice of the music in a film was Brian Tyler's "Can You Dig It" from IRON MAN 3 and only because it reminded me very much of Barry Gray's main title for UFO. I can't remember the time before that.
FILM MUSIC IS DEAD. LONG LIVE FILM MUSIC!
Well said, well said.
But I don't blame Zimmer. He's the effect, not the cause. The REAL DECLINE starts with stupid customers. Zimmer just provided what they want.
Can't blame a business man for catering to shit tastes.
Edw, love that youtube you posted. Don't know Wallfisch, but I will listen to movies he has scored. It was lovely. And I like your words about bullies and treating people with respect, but as you can see, some posters are deaf or blind.
I hated the comment, "Go back to your grave." Loren is usually classier than that; however, when a couple posters attack people's preferences telling them they "falter" or have sh.t tastes or that all their tastes are in their mouths, what can you expect? I don't blame them for being insulted. Cheez, how unbelievably negative and rude.
If someone gets hooked into music by Zimmer or other modern composers, so what? People will branch out. A single composer is a gateway composer. I got hooked on Bernstein and Goldsmith. Then I worked backwards to enjoy the Golden composers and worked my way forward to enjoy Conti, Poledouris, J N Howard, etc. Some of you are so bloody dark and negative, you must live in caves like mushrooms. Too bad a few people had to ruin such an interesting topic. "A pox on you!"
Edw, love that youtube you posted. Don't know Wallfisch, but I will listen to movies he has scored. It was lovely. And I like your words about bullies and treating people with respect, but as you can see, some posters are deaf or blind.
I hated the comment, "Go back to your grave." Loren is usually classier than that; however, when a couple posters attack people's preferences telling them they "falter" or have sh.t tastes or that all their tastes are in their mouths, what can you expect? I don't blame them for being insulted. Cheez, how unbelievably negative and rude.
If someone gets hooked into music by Zimmer or other modern composers, so what? People will branch out. A single composer is a gateway composer. I got hooked on Bernstein and Goldsmith. Then I worked backwards to enjoy the Golden composers and worked my way forward to enjoy Conti, Poledouris, J N Howard, etc. Some of you are so bloody dark and negative, you must live in caves like mushrooms. Too bad a few people had to ruin such an interesting topic. "A pox on you!"
Joan, I too cannot blame members for reacting to personal attacks. I was referring to the initial comments and not the responses. I just can't stand the potty mouth and nastiness.
This was such an interesting topic and it still is. I love your reference to a gateway composer. That is such a logical term in so many ways. It can also be used to refer to a film genre. Thanks for sharing it.
TO FOLLOW ME- That is so trite, you mention a few scores over a period of many decades where they played film music on the radio. They never really played a lot of film music on the radio, period.So your excuse and samples are silly, silly silly.What are you trying to say, SOMEWHERE MY LOVE is better then a lovely DESPLAT SCORE THE PAST 10 YEARS. DAYS OF WINE AND ROSES is better than A YARED SCORE LIKE AMELIA. GONE WITH THE WIND is a better theme than a HORNER beautiful score in the last 10 years. If you want to make a discussion that one disagrees on , MAKE SENSE.THOR, MILES[MER] AND LOREN are right, stop being so lazy when dealing with modern scores just don't used the giant budget films as examples. We have been saying this for years. Hey you might fine a lot of surprises if you actually listen to a few hundred scores AROUND THE WORLD each year.Then maybe you won't have to waste your time telling other people the film music world is coming to an end.
TO KHAN-Yes the irony, I figure since I have not heard from you in a while I wanted to wake you up. It worked.What are you complaining about I mentioned MR Horner, that great composer you guys love who writes sublime scores.
TO FOLLOW ME- That is so trite, you mention a few scores over a period of many decades where they played film music on the radio. They never really played a lot of film music on the radio, period.So your excuse and samples are silly, silly silly.What are you trying to say,
I didn´t "try" to say, I already said what I wanted to say. Obviously you did not understand. Read again and try to understand. Hint: the salient point is NOT, whether the music was played on the radio...
THOR, MILES[MER] AND LOREN are right, stop being so lazy when dealing with modern scores just don't used the giant budget films as examples. We have been saying this for years. Hey you might fine a lot of surprises if you actually listen to a few hundred scores AROUND THE WORLD each year.Then maybe you won't have to waste your time telling other people the film music world is coming to an end.
That´s ridiculous. You ask me to listen to 3000 scores to find one I might like (THAT certainly was not necessary 30 years ago): I can assure you, I listen to quite a lot of scores each year, if I increase that number I will either end up at an ear specialist or in the madhouse.
TO KHAN-Yes the irony, I figure since I have not heard from you in a while I wanted to wake you up. It worked.What are you complaining about I mentioned MR Horner, that great composer you guys love who writes sublime scores.
Your post makes NO SENSE. NONE. As does most of what you write. And yet, you're telling someone else to make sense? All the lulz.
I was delighted at how accurately Horner was able to recall the opening of Superman. And that he had very particular opinions on what a Superman score was supposed to do.
I disagree with his statement that all super-hero movies sound the same. I think Thor and Captain America in particular are standouts. I wished they had followed up with questions about Spider-Man. I loved the theme for ASM, but I don’t think anyone has written the definitive Spider-Man score yet.
It was interesting to hear Zimmer and that other fellow at RCP having different notions of “composer” and “credit”. Other Fellow: “Oh, we all contribute, everyone gets credit.” Zimmer: “Oh no you don’t either!”
They get a little touchy about John Williams, don’t they.
Horner (and the interviewer) sound very upset about focus groups and films by committee. And it certainly has its evils. But Spielberg used focus groups (or whatever you called them then) on Jaws. Wise points out that he got to use test screenings on every film he ever made EXCEPT Star Trek. And there is no way to describe the making of Casablanca as anything other than “by committee”.
OTOH I remember when Event Horizon came out. It was getting largely favorable ratings from test audiences but most people said it was too long. So they cut it for time. Then everyone hated it. Which one makes it to the theaters? The one everyone hated. I wonder what the test audiences thought of Hornes rescore of Yared’s film.
A note on my use of language which some people have been complaining about.
I post the way I talk and I never post anything that I wouldn't say to someone's face—I don't Bowlderize with asterisks and acronyms. George Carlin, Camille Paglia and Christopher Hitchens are among my heroes. They never shied away from a couple of f-bombs sprinkled throughout the expression of their opinions and neither do I.
I wrote what I wrote because that's what I felt the way I felt it. It had been building up for some time and all came spilling out into this thread in exactly the way it formed in my brain. If you want to think less of me because that's how I express myself… well, to quote Carlin: "Fine by me. Fine by me. Don't bother my ass none!"
A note on my use of language which some people have been complaining about.
I post the way I talk and I never post anything that I wouldn't say to someone's face—I don't Bowlderize with asterisks and acronyms. George Carlin, Camille Paglia and Christopher Hitchens are among my heroes. They never shied away from a couple of f-bombs sprinkled throughout the expression of their opinions and neither do I.
I wrote what I wrote because that's what I felt the way I felt it. It had been building up for some time and all came spilling out into this thread in exactly the way it formed in my brain. If you want to think less of me because that's how I express myself… well, to quote Carlin: "Fine by me. Fine by me. Don't bother my ass none!"
I like Richard Pryor and Chris Rock but that doesn't make me want to throw the N-word around all the time. Just saying
Morricone's got it right! It's all well and good to bitch and moan about how things aren't like they were, but how does that help anything? Why not take the energy required to complain and use it to seek out something different, something new?
I'm still hearing plenty of sweeping, lush orchestral music being written in the style of when I first got into soundtracks, maybe less so from Hollywood, but it's out there. I think a lot of people associate Hollywood with the be-all and end-all of films and film music. That's so not the case. If you miss powerful, romantic orchestral scores, written in the vein of the classics (and also invoking the styles of Williams, Goldsmith, Barry etc), just listen to that youtube link above of Summer In February (Ben Wallfisch), or scores by Fred Talgorn, Philippe Rombi and the countless Spanish and Polish composers who aren't going to let some Team Zimmer factory homogenise the sound of film scores. You'll be surprised how great film music still sounds. Plus, Media Ventures has created some fine film composers in their own right. John Powell, HGW, Mark Mancina and Klaus Badelt are just a few scorers who adorn my shelves with some wonderful music. Why do people have to be so black and white!
I was 11 years old when I saw STAR WARS. I remember clearly the feeling I had hearing the fanfare at the start of the film and the rest of the score that followed. I had seen films that had symphonic scores before like KING KONG, THE ADVENTURES OF ROBIN HOOD, GONE WITH THE WIND, THE WIZARD OF OZ, THE THIEF OF BAGDAD, BEN-HUR, LAWRENCE OR ARABIA etc. but it was STAR WARS that made me a film music fan. It was the first film with a score that made me tingle with excitement. I told my mom I had to have it and I got my wish (on 8-track no less!)
Soon, other films gave me that same feeling. Scores like SUPERMAN, the very next year by this mysterious sorcerer named Williams was one—but then other magicians started to ensnare me with their magic. Men named Goldsmith Barry, Bernstein, Poledouris. Some kid named Horner. Older films I had seen suddenly were made more lustrous by men named Korngold, Herrmann and Rózsa. New films were elevated by Elfman, Silvestri, Broughton and Kamen.
What I'm trying to say is that the music stood out. It was memorable. Distinctive. No one could mistake one composers' work for another. This happened ALL THE TIME. And the feeling I got from that first viewing of STAR WARS was still there. As soon as the movie was over I had to have the album.
Now, this almost never happens. Goldmith, Barry, Bernstein and Poledouris are dead. The films I see now are worthless as far as their scores are concerned. The music is dull. Boring. Gone are the hummable melodies, the lush orchestrations and harmonies. Zimmer has poisoned everything.
I remember the first time I heard his music. It was for BACKDRAFT. I remember thinking at the time that here was yet another distinctive voice in the world of film music. But then, slowly, perniciously, he began to destroy everything that I loved about film music. Now all I hear are simple pop music chord progressions under either wailing women, walls of low brass, simple string ostinatos or thundering percussion. It's everywhere. And where it isn't its effects are STILL felt. Giacchino's score for MEDAL OF HONOR was glorious. STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS, not so much. Do I blame Michael? Hell, no. When he's allowed to, he can still write great music. I get the feeling that him and others like him (Desplat and McCreary) would LOVE to compose music like their idols but aren't allowed to in the current climate.
Hans Zimmer is successful because he knows how to bullshit his directors into thinking that what he's doing is cutting edge awesome. Oh, listen to this Nolan, it's called a minor third! Or, it's nine hours of a guy playing a single note on a cello! Won't it be great for the Joker? Fuck you, Hans. Fuck you. We had John Williams and the London Symphony Orchestra. Now, we've got you and Sheila E. Go fuck yourself.
But no, here's Thor Haga to tell me that all is well, you're just imagining it all. Guys like James Horner, Danny Elfman, Richard Kraft and Jon Burlingame don't know what the fuck they're talking about. Film music is alive and well! Rejoice!
Bull. Shit.
The last time I took notice of the music in a film was Brian Tyler's "Can You Dig It" from IRON MAN 3 and only because it reminded me very much of Barry Gray's main title for UFO. I can't remember the time before that.
