Film Score Monthly
FSM HOME MESSAGE BOARD FSM CDs FSM ONLINE RESOURCES FUN STUFF ABOUT US  SEARCH FSM   
Search Terms: 
Search Within:   search tips 
You must log in or register to post.
  Go to page:    
 
 Posted:   Nov 23, 2010 - 2:48 AM   
 By:   quiller007   (Member)

In response to some emails I received and some comments here I thought I'd post some clarification. The only surviving elements for "Family Plot" are the 3-track mono mixdowns which we encounter often in scores from this period. Rather than just present mono, some very careful and attentive engineering was implemented to bring out the best of what the element offers but stopping short of things sounding weird and unbalanced... as was the case with the End Credits on the Hip-O label a while back. That release accessed the same element for that track (truncated and somehow presented at a noticeably slow speed) and you could hear there how odd it is to have all the strings on the left channel and the harpsichord on the far right.

Our booklet has a technical note explaining this a bit further, but actually Bruce Kimmel recently went into detail about this phenomenon at the Kritzerland site in discussing his "Carrie" release, explaining how you can basically get a stereo "field" but not a traditional stereo instrumental "spread." On that title he had the luxury of going beyond the 3-track mono element and back to the multi-track for a proper remix, just as FSM was able to do for "Black Sunday," but sadly no other elements from "Family Plot" were located in the Universal archives. This being the case, we worked hard to give a consistent and full-bodied sound to this long sought-after score.

Mike



In other words you made a stereo recording from a mono mixdown? Cool! smile
Seriously, you had me fooled. Sounds great, Mike! Thanks for the excellent
work on this (and all those other awesome cds).

Btw, you couldn't have posted your reply before I made a fool of myself?
Now I have to eat crow for Thanksgiving. Ooooh, the pain! big grin

Den

 
 Posted:   Nov 23, 2010 - 4:08 PM   
 By:   mxmx   (Member)

I had a feeling this one was right around the corner when those crystal-clear recordings leaked out on bootleg a couple of years ago.

I know a lot of people felt that way, but I knew somebody who had that a good eight years ago. They haven't been working on this CD for eight years.

Anyway, delighted that this is on its way. Nice work, Varese!


Still these samples sound 100X better than the boot and in Stereo as far as I can hear


Also been getting some messages similar to the top comment above and for the record, the appearance a few years ago of that-which-shall-not-be-named has ZERO connection to the official licensing of the score by Varese. ZERO. No connection whatsoever. That was someone's private source intentionally spread around as a deliberate act of spite.

Mike

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 23, 2010 - 6:35 PM   
 By:   Doctor Plesman   (Member)

Finally, finally, it's being released! Great! Another holy one gone from the list of grails, kudos for all the efforts to get the best possible sound out of the mono tracks, big thanks to Varese & to Mike Matessino!

Can't wait to hear the complete album!

 
 Posted:   Nov 23, 2010 - 6:44 PM   
 By:   gmontag451   (Member)

The pseudo-stereo is amazing! It's hard believe this was a mono recording. Incredible.

Michael

 
 Posted:   Nov 23, 2010 - 6:58 PM   
 By:   Steve Johnson   (Member)

It fooled me. The clips sound great.

 
 Posted:   Nov 23, 2010 - 7:13 PM   
 By:   mxmx   (Member)

Let's not put forth any misleading information that this is fake stereo made from mono. That's an inaccurate generalization.

Family Plot was not a mono recording originally but no stereo sources or multi-tracks were saved. All that exists is a 3-track mono mixdown. Each of the three tracks groups certain instruments, the purpose being that when the film is mixed in mono the sound mixers have some very basic control if, for example, they would like less strings, more percussion, etc. at a given moment. So while you can't treat these 3-track mixdowns like an L/C/R because it sounds really weird and unnatural, you CAN use them to get some spatiality out of the recording and end up with, as I said earlier, something with a stereo "field" but not a stereo "spread." FSM previously had to do this with their Coma release and it's come up a few times on other scores.

Whether one wants to consider this stereo or mono is up to individual interpretation. It's technically stereo but not IN stereo, strange as that sounds. The goal was not to settle for flat mono if we didn't have to and I think the results are very pleasing, a consistent, full-bodied sound for the only surviving source of this score. Seriously, read Bruce K.'s notes about Carrie at the Kritzerland site. He speaks about it far more lucidly.

http://www.kritzerland.com/news.htm

Mike


 
 
 Posted:   Nov 23, 2010 - 7:32 PM   
 By:   GoodMusician86   (Member)

Anyone have any idea what that last track is? "The Stonecutter?" Is it maybe the source cue heard in the film? It's 6 mins long though... And from what i could tell, the source cue sounded like williams and i can't think of the last time he wrote a source cue that long.

Is it maybe an interview or something?

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 23, 2010 - 7:38 PM   
 By:   GoodMusician86   (Member)

MX, would that then explain how they got the solo timpani during the chase music in the film? They simply opted not to include the other channels of the mix as opposed to a lost alternate?

Seeing as we've known the score has existed since AT LEAST 2005, its nice it's finally getting released

 
 Posted:   Nov 23, 2010 - 7:45 PM   
 By:   mxmx   (Member)

"The Stonecutter" is indeed source music in Williams' '70s funky rock style.

In "Maloney's Exit," the timpani heard in the film seems to be editorially created by tracking and editing part of "Maloney's Knife" where solo timpani is playing.

Mike

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 23, 2010 - 7:47 PM   
 By:   GoodMusician86   (Member)

"The Stonecutter" is indeed source music in Williams' '70s funky rock style.

In "Maloney's Exit," the timpani heard in the film seems to be editorially created by tracking and editing part of "Maloney's Knife" where solo timpani is playing.

Mike


OOO!! Finally! Thanks! I'm so pleased especially since we've known the score existed since at least 2005... its nice it's finally getting released. Took long enough heh...

 
 Posted:   Nov 23, 2010 - 8:03 PM   
 By:   Mr. Jack   (Member)

Anyone have any idea what that last track is? "The Stonecutter?"

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 23, 2010 - 8:10 PM   
 By:   That Bloke   (Member)

Anyone have any idea what that last track is? "The Stonecutter?" Is it maybe the source cue heard in the film? It's 6 mins long though... And from what i could tell, the source cue sounded like williams and i can't think of the last time he wrote a source cue that long.

Is it maybe an interview or something?


As Mr Matessino answered above, the Stonecutter is source music. It introduces a scene at a stonemasons, where we first see a young, "with it" apprentice carving away at a headstone. It's apparent she's listening to the radio playing this cue while she is working. We then see the chief stonecutter yell to his young apprentice to "turn that noise down" while he talks with Bruce Dern. It's peculiar seeing the cue on the CD goes for about 6 minutes when in the film we hear it for only about 10 seconds.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 23, 2010 - 8:14 PM   
 By:   GoodMusician86   (Member)

Anyone have any idea what that last track is? "The Stonecutter?" Is it maybe the source cue heard in the film? It's 6 mins long though... And from what i could tell, the source cue sounded like williams and i can't think of the last time he wrote a source cue that long.

Is it maybe an interview or something?


As Mr Matessino answered above, the Stonecutter is source music. It introduces a scene at a stonemasons, where we first see a young, "with it" apprentice carving away at a headstone. It's apparent she's listening to the radio playing this cue while she is working. We then see the chief stonecutter yell to his young apprentice to "turn that noise down" while he talks with Bruce Dern. It's peculiar seeing the cue on the CD goes for about 6 minutes when in the film we hear it for only about 10 seconds.


Yea, it was nice of him to answer. I wish it said that on the case like "22. The Stonecutter (Source) - [06:35]" so that we'd know :-p

Sorta like how it took me a minute to realize the track above it is the Pop version of the theme

 
 Posted:   Nov 23, 2010 - 8:15 PM   
 By:   mxmx   (Member)

I'm pretty sure it keeps playing far in the background through most of the scene as the grave maker goes through his files and comes up with Maloney's name for Dern.

Mike

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 23, 2010 - 8:21 PM   
 By:   GoodMusician86   (Member)

I'm pretty sure it keeps playing far in the background through most of the scene as the grave maker goes through his files and comes up with Maloney's name for Dern.

Mike


Starts at [00:37:22] until [00:40:34]. So Williams made sure to write a long enough cue by 2. Smart!

Wonder if the other source music (from the Church) is available anywhere :-p

Mx, if you have a moment further, are you familiar with the story of the original masters? I've heard that it got recorded over for episode music. The person didn't realize what they were doing until after. It had lost a label and became fair use tape to be recorded over and that's what had happened to the original masters. Any truth to this?

I know that there was also talk that Universal was throwing away its tape masters and digitizing them. It was around the time this rumor hit that FP got leaked so I wondered about the validity of it but you said that the 3track tapes were used for this or were they pre-digitized for you?

Frankly the idea of destroying originals is such a travesty to me. You can never fully copy the mona lisa... its why i think the business of releasing these lost scores is so crucial. If they aren't released, they risk being lost to oblivion.

 
 Posted:   Nov 23, 2010 - 8:27 PM   
 By:   mxmx   (Member)

Hair splitting, but now that I think about it, Dern just learns from the grave maker that there was no body in the grave, which leads him to the Hall of Records where he finds Maloney's name on a rejected death certificate application.

The hymn "Rejoice, the Lord Is King" was not something we had. It may have been recorded right there at Grace Cathedral during production since it's brief and we don't really see the singers.

I don't know the exact story with the masters, only that they looked everywhere. At one point I did hear that it was not unusual to destroy all the music elements once (get this) the syndication TV prints were made. There was very little foresight in that era for what was just around the corner and there's really no rhyme or reason to what remains and what's gone. I mean, who'd think we'd find a pristine LCR for None But the Brave but only 3-track mono mixdowns for Family Plot, made over a decade later?

And naturally I agree with you that it is very important to save what we have and allow it to be enjoyed.

Mike

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 23, 2010 - 8:53 PM   
 By:   GoodMusician86   (Member)

Last question mike, there are obviously other titles for the cues presented on the leak, differing from these. Are there any known slate numbers/cue titles or were these just what felt best (no offence made but if you have no titles, you have to come up with something lol)? I hate how little information has come from this period in film scoring history even from Star Wars which is of course your area of expertise but as for exact cue titles and slate numbers, I've not been able to fully find them all and even some I've read are a little incorrect (oh well)

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 23, 2010 - 10:14 PM   
 By:   quiller007   (Member)

Whether one wants to consider this stereo or mono is up to individual interpretation. It's technically stereo but not IN stereo, strange as that sounds.
Mike


Aha! So I was right after all. It IS stereo! big grin
Good. I don't have to eat crow for Thanksgiving. Whew!

Den

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 23, 2010 - 10:34 PM   
 By:   That Bloke   (Member)

Thanks (again) to Mr Matessino and GoodMusician for clarifying the length of the source cue. Next time I'm watching the film I'll pay more attention.

Right now I just can't wait to get my hands on the CD! big grin

 
 Posted:   Nov 23, 2010 - 10:52 PM   
 By:   mxmx   (Member)

Last question mike, there are obviously other titles for the cues presented on the leak, differing from these. Are there any known slate numbers/cue titles or were these just what felt best (no offence made but if you have no titles, you have to come up with something lol)? I hate how little information has come from this period in film scoring history even from Star Wars which is of course your area of expertise but as for exact cue titles and slate numbers, I've not been able to fully find them all and even some I've read are a little incorrect (oh well)

Our release uses Williams' manuscript and cue sheet titles. Any others were made up. As I recall the recording was slated with reel and part numbers.

Mike

 
You must log in or register to post.
  Go to page:    
© 2014 Film Score Monthly. All Rights Reserved.