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LOG IN Forgot Login? Register General Discussion • Trading Post • Non-Film Score Discussion  Profile • Preferences • Community Rules • Help/Contact • Search Board Search Terms:  Search Within:  topics posts since 2019 2018 posts 2017 posts 2016 posts 2015 posts 2014 posts 2013 posts 2012 posts 2011 posts 2010 posts 2009 posts 2008 posts 2007 posts 2006 posts 2005 posts 2004 posts 2003 posts 2002 posts 2001 posts 2000 posts users  search tips  You must log in or register to post.   Go to page:  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11      General Discussion: TADLOW: THE SALAMANDER (Jerry Goldsmith)    FIRST   PRIOR   6 7 8 9 10    NEXT   LAST   Last Post   Posted:   Apr 18, 2013 - 8:14 AM     By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member) Papillon the WORST of Goldsmith?!!!!!!    Posted:   Apr 18, 2013 - 8:52 AM     By:   Jeff Bond   (Member) Some Goldsmith fans just don't like Goldsmith. It's interesting, Goldsmith's style evolved so much over the years that certain people can be attracted strongly to one period of his work but repelled by another. The Salamander has his heavy, but still very experimental, late '70s sound--to me the pinnacle of his work (and I would put the Oscar-nominated Papillon at the pinnacle of his work too). Some people prefer his more romantic style of the later 80s and 90s. To me, if you don't like his work from the 60s and 70s you are missing out on the very essence of his personality as a composer.    Posted:   Apr 18, 2013 - 9:30 AM     By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member) Even if someone simply HATES accordion or Gallic flavor, I can't understand them saying either of these scores is the worst of Goldsmith. He's had undeniably "worse" scores in every decade since the 60s! Let's reserve "worst" for things like Criminal Law, shall we? (Though if it were orchestrated like Tadlow's reconstructionist would like to do with some of Goldsmith's synth work, we all might change our opinions on that one: http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=95569&forumID=1&archive=0 ) Yavar    Posted:   Apr 18, 2013 - 9:40 AM     By:   Chris Avis   (Member) Even if someone simply HATES accordion or Gallic flavor, I can't understand them saying either of these scores is the worst of Goldsmith. He's had undeniably "worse" scores in every decade since the 60s! Let's reserve "worst" for things like Criminal Law, shall we? (Though if it were orchestrated like Tadlow's reconstructionist would like to do with some of Goldsmith's synth work, we all might change our opinions on that one: http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=95569&forumID=1&archive=0 ) Yavar Papillon is a fantastic score, easily in Goldsmith's top 10 for me. I'm not saying that The Salamander is any where near Goldsmith's worst, but equally it's not anywhere near his best (although clearly others disagree). I tend to agree with Jeff on the point that Goldsmith's 60s to 70s output contains some of his most interesting work. I definitely started as a fan of his 80s and 90s work (and that's still excellent, but different) but have found much to enjoy in his earlier work over the past few years. Chris.    Posted:   Apr 18, 2013 - 10:20 AM     By:   Jeff Bond   (Member) Hey, I even like Criminal Law and find it an absorbing listen as atmosphere; why it's the whipping boy of Goldsmith's output as opposed to something like Angie mystifies me. Even if you don't like the "Gallic" influences in The Salamander there's the powerful main theme, the awesome car chase and "Island Adventure" which is quite epic and in line with his post- Star Trek-TMP style, plus the funeral, the percussive training sequence...it's a wonderfully varied score. The love theme is more than sufficient for a sappy, shoehorned-in romance featuring Sybil Danning; remember that this is a pretty lousy movie! But to each is own--like I said, Goldsmith explored such a wide range of style that it's understandable some people won't like everything. Since I started paying attention to his music in the late 60s/early 70s, I find his later scores less interesting--but since I can still hear echoes of his earlier approach in those scores, I can still almost always find elements of them that appeal to me.    Posted:   Apr 18, 2013 - 10:23 AM     By:   DavidCorkum   (Member) Some Goldsmith fans just don't like Goldsmith. It's interesting, Goldsmith's style evolved so much over the years that certain people can be attracted strongly to one period of his work but repelled by another. I think the two biggest style bombs in his career were Planet of the Apes, where his imaginative orchestrations just took off far beyond what he had done previously, and The Boys From Brazil, where he switched to a much more symphonic style. The other change occurred more gradually in the early 90's, where he seemed to run out of steam and got simplistic, with more of a reliance on synths. He would argue that the changes were reflections of movie trends, which may be true.    Posted:   Apr 18, 2013 - 10:27 AM     By:   DavidCorkum   (Member) Hey, I even like Criminal Law and find it an absorbing listen as atmosphere; why it's the whipping boy of Goldsmith's output as opposed to something like Angie mystifies me. I like Criminal Law too! It's a scary modern Film Noir, as a score anyways.    Posted:   Apr 18, 2013 - 10:51 AM     By:   Jeff Bond   (Member) I like that it's simply assumed that Criminal Law is the worst score ever written for some reason (Warlock--another one of my favorites!--got this treatment for a number of years). Even the idea that Goldsmith ran out of steam, streamlined everything and relied on electronics at the end of his career isn't necessarily true--his last few scores, things like Hollow Man, Timeline, or even The Mummy and 13th Warrior, are pretty robust works.    Posted:   Apr 18, 2013 - 10:53 AM     By:   SchiffyM   (Member) Hey, I even like Criminal Law and find it an absorbing listen as atmosphere; why it's the whipping boy of Goldsmith's output as opposed to something like Angie mystifies me. I don't think people remember that "Angie" exists. I think "Criminal Law" came along at a time when fans were thinking "Oh boy, a new Goldsmith thriller score!" and then it was nothing like they expected. (Okay, maybe that was me.) I don't love it, but I'll take it any day over "Angie." That said, there are about 150 Goldsmith scores I'll take over "Criminal Law," so it doesn't get too much play in my house.    Posted:   Apr 18, 2013 - 11:01 AM     By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member) Even the idea that Goldsmith ran out of steam, streamlined everything and relied on electronics at the end of his career isn't necessarily true--his last few scores, things like Hollow Man, Timeline, or even The Mummy and 13th Warrior, are pretty robust works. Totally agreed, and I don't understand what you mean by "even The Mummy" which has probably Goldsmith's most furiously complex action writing and variety of themes in the last decade of his career! I don't think the gap between The Wind and the Lion in 1975 and The Mummy in 1999 is wide at all... Yavar    Posted:   Apr 18, 2013 - 11:04 AM     By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member) Okay, I gotta 'fess up. I've never bought or heard Criminal Law just because it's supposed to be so bad. I don't think Angie's particularly wonderful or underrated but James Southall of Movie-wave.net (probably my favorite film music reviewer) does: http://www.movie-wave.net/titles/angie.html I certainly think it's pleasant enough so I wouldn't list it as a "worst" either... Yavar    Posted:   Apr 18, 2013 - 11:05 AM     By:   Jeff Bond   (Member) I think by "even The Mummy" I was referring to the chronology there because you might argue that's not one of his "last" scores. I agree it's as complex as the others mentioned (even though Goldsmith reportedly hated working on it).    Posted:   Apr 18, 2013 - 11:07 AM     By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member) Well, if we want to talk robust "last" scores with complex writing look no further than Looney Tunes: Back in Action. The complexity and energy in that are astounding considering the man wasn't even well enough to finish writing the score! Personally I thought it was weird at first but now I spin it much more often than Timeline (which I think is indeed good). Yavar    Posted:   Apr 18, 2013 - 11:09 AM     By:   The Mutant   (Member) I honestly really like Criminal Law. I had the main titles on cassette from that old Varese compilation that included Die Hard, Betrayed and Coming to America, etc. Always loved how amazingly dark and unrelenting it is. Then when I got the CD, there are two tracks that I always put into my playlists - The Closet and The Garden Pavillion. I don't think I've touched Angie or Love Field or Six Degrees of Seperation since I got them. Listened once and just don't dig 'em. I find Criminal Law waaaay more interesting.    Posted:   Apr 18, 2013 - 11:11 AM     By:   Jeff Bond   (Member) Angie is probably better than IQ; it's just innocuous and has never tempted me to give it a second listen. But my guess is Goldsmith would have preferred writing scores for movies like that rather than The Mummy and Hollow Man. I don't regard Goldsmith as a god and when certain people argue his infallibility over and over it always tempts me to be much more critical of his work--but he is still my personal favorite composer and I think his work tends to define what I think, or want, film music to be. He's basically defined my taste in film music over the years even though I love many other composers who do things very differently than he did. I'm definitely driven to hear all of his work and if that makes me a bottle cap collector so be it--that doesn't mean I adore every bottle cap, I'm just fascinated by finding out how each bottle cap fits into the larger portrait.    Posted:   Apr 18, 2013 - 11:42 AM     By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member) Jeff, you took the words right out of my mouth regarding Goldsmith. I may as well just cut and paste what you just wrote for myself in the What Kind of Goldsmith Fan Are You? thread... And Mutant, you should give Love Field another chance. It's got some pretty dramatic bits! Yavar    Posted:   Apr 18, 2013 - 11:53 AM     By:   The Mutant   (Member) Jeff, you took the words right out of my mouth regarding Goldsmith. I may as well just cut and paste what you just wrote for myself in the What Kind of Goldsmith Fan Are You? thread... And Mutant, you should give Love Field another chance. It's got some pretty dramatic bits! Yavar Actually I do recall one good suspense cue on Love Field that seemed like it belonged in a different movie altogether.    Posted:   Apr 18, 2013 - 11:59 AM     By:   SchiffyM   (Member) I like "The Mummy" well enough, but I don't go to it as often as earlier Goldsmith works not because it isn't energetic or complex, but because like so many of his later scores, he seems to have shaved off the harsher edges that made his scores so dynamic and interesting to me. Of course, the same is true of films now -- anything that might jar has to go -- and Goldsmith was certainly savvy enough to know that (or do what was asked of him). "The Mummy" isn't exactly a film that takes chances; it's all designed to astound and go down easy. So please know that I'm not condemning Goldsmith for this choice. And again, nothing's wrong with "The Mummy." But time is finite, and when I'm in the mood for Goldsmith, I'm more likely to put on an earlier score.    Posted:   Apr 18, 2013 - 12:57 PM     By:   Jeff Bond   (Member) I remember reviewing the Mummy and writing about how Goldsmith used to find a completely different, startling sound for each of his genre scores, and now he just writes a different big theme for brass every time out. I appreciate the score much more now than I did then (same thing for Air Force One, which I was totally unimpressed by on CD until I SAW THE FILM--always a good idea when you're talking about a score--then I could see how much the score helped and drove the movie (which I think would have been mostly laughable without it). The Mummy too got what it deserved--it's a loud, broad movie and even then I thought that Goldsmith's "hero" theme there was more of a comedy theme. And I do think Goldsmith was responding to the fact that scores were being asked to do less in terms of commentary--which is always the really interesting stuff--and more of simply mirroring what was going on onscreen, as we got into the 90s and later.    Posted:   Apr 18, 2013 - 1:03 PM     By:   SchiffyM   (Member) And I do think Goldsmith was responding to the fact that scores were being asked to do less in terms of commentary--which is always the really interesting stuff--and more of simply mirroring what was going on onscreen, as we got into the 90s and later. I'm sure you're right. Maybe this point shouldn't be buried deep in a thread about "The Salamander," but I think that's just a fact of life given film technology. Music used to be used to suggest things we couldn't see, or make feeble images seem bolder. But film technology has advanced to the point where they can put any image on film, and shake your seats with sound to go with it. So the purpose of music has changed, at least in most epics.     General Discussion: TADLOW: THE SALAMANDER (Jerry Goldsmith)    << < 6 7 8 9 10  > >>  Go to page:  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11   First Post    General Discussion • Trading Post • Non-Film Score Discussion  Profile • Preferences • Community Rules • Help/Contact • Search Board You must log in or register to post.   Go to page:  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11

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