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This is a comments thread about FSM CD: Ben-Hur
 
 Posted:   Feb 17, 2012 - 11:29 PM   
 By:   Ray Worley   (Member)

A superflous release. All relevant bases covered already.

Wow.
Just wow.

What are you smoking? And please....don't share.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2012 - 3:18 AM   
 By:   classicmoviesfan   (Member)

I'm sure many will disagree with me but I would like to have some objection about this new release. I am a great fan of Miklos Rozsa and many of the CDs in my film music collection are his own. In fact among the first CDs I have purchased for this collection is the double CD set of Ben-Hur from Rhino Records. I don't think one could wish more than that, about 2 and a half hours of the original and complete soundtrack conducted by the composer himself. Besides Ben-Hur has so large a discography that any addition hardly seems necessary. Of course it's a fine work to release a 5-disc set dedicated to this monumental score but my opinion is that it would be better to release more Rozsa scores that either are completely neglected and unknown in discography or small portions of them have been recorded so far. Miklos Rozsa's film scores are a treasure still waiting to be discovered fully. Among the 90 scores he wrote many remain obscure and hard to find. It would be wonderful if these lost gems were found and offered to all Rozsa fans to enjoy. Knight Without Armour (1937), The Four Feathers (1939), Lydia (1941), Lady Hamilton (1941), Four Graves to Cairo (1943), Sahara (1943), Dark Waters (1944), A Double Life (1947) that won him an Oscar, The Red Danube (1949), Beau Brummell (1954).

 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2012 - 3:46 AM   
 By:   Basil Wrathbone   (Member)

I'm sure many will disagree with me but I would like to have some objection about this new release. I am a great fan of Miklos Rozsa and many of the CDs in my film music collection are his own. In fact among the first CDs I have purchased for this collection is the double CD set of Ben-Hur from Rhino Records. I don't think one could wish more than that, about 2 and a half hours of the original and complete soundtrack conducted by the composer himself. Besides Ben-Hur has so large a discography that any addition hardly seems necessary. Of course it's a fine work to release a 5-disc set dedicated to this monumental score but my opinion is that it would be better to release more Rozsa scores that either are completely neglected and unknown in discography or small portions of them have been recorded so far. Miklos Rozsa's film scores are a treasure still waiting to be discovered fully. Among the 90 scores he wrote many remain obscure and hard to find. It would be wonderful if these lost gems were found and offered to all Rozsa fans to enjoy. Knight Without Armour (1937), The Four Feathers (1939), Lydia (1941), Lady Hamilton (1941), Four Graves to Cairo (1943), Sahara (1943), Dark Waters (1944), A Double Life (1947) that won him an Oscar, The Red Danube (1949), Beau Brummell (1954).

The new set is a vastly preferable presentation. The Rhino, beautifully packaged as it is, is a mess to listen to, unless one programs the discs to avoid the annoyance and repetition of interspersed alternate cues, and even then the flow and beautifully composed segues are not reflected properly. And while the Culver City recordings on the Rhino are in very good sound, the Rome recordings are poor (though I'm not sure if the FSM improves on that to any great extent). I haven't played the Rhino for years because of its bitty presentation and have preferred to play the Rozsa-conducted Decca re-recording. Now I fully expect to be listening to the new FSM regularly – everything I've read about the set convinces me that the ideal presentation is here at last.
You mentioned Beau Brummell – Rozsa's music for that is included in FSM's Rozsa Treasury Box.

 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2012 - 4:18 AM   
 By:   Moonie   (Member)

A superflous release. All relevant bases covered already.

Wow.
Just wow.

What are you smoking? And please....don't share.



Theres one in every crowd smile

 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2012 - 4:27 AM   
 By:   Chris Rimmer   (Member)

A superflous release. All relevant bases covered already.

It's simple really, if you don't like it, don't moan about it, just don't buy it.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2012 - 5:13 AM   
 By:   John B. Archibald   (Member)

I confess: I'm one of those 1200 Lukas refers to.

(Sounds like the makings of yet another 12-Step group...)

Ah well. Unlike other addicts, I can see the object of my addiction any time, take it down from the wall where it sits with its confreres, and listen to it any time I want.

It's a perfect relationship.

God bless Rozsa for writing it and Lukas for releasing it.

God bless you all.


"I'm afraid."
"No cause... The world is more than we know..."

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2012 - 5:58 AM   
 By:   Stephen Pickard   (Member)

I have not wanted to do the "room tone" between tracks because of listening problems when making playlists in iTunes, etc.

Lukas


It's an ALBUM, for heaven's sake. I don't want a "concert" listening experience - I'm glad you didn't do it, you should never do it, and neither should anyone else. Go to a concert if you want room tone. smile I would never want an album to sound like one long piece of music.


Wherever possible, I like to hear room tone at the end for a 'beat' before it goes to Digital silence.

 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2012 - 6:06 AM   
 By:   George Komar   (Member)

Are we now honestly arguing about ROOM SOUND????

Regards the arguing about Room Tone - one thing should be clear by now; someone will find something to complain about with every disc ever produced...


What "arguing"? No one was arguing; no one raised their voice (except, ironically, those claiming that an argument was taking place).

Stephen Woolston mentioned correspondence with Marilee Bradford in which she stated her preference for "room tone." I stated that that was one thing I admired about the Rhino release, but agreed with Basil that the inserted alternates diluted the benefit, and that the FSM release would remedy that. Then manderley gave us another one of his wonderfully informative posts about the use of "room tone" in film-making. Bruce objected to its use in CDs, and Lukas gave a perfectly logical reason why he avoided it.

So please explain how a rational exchange of ideas among posters -- all of which are thrilled with the upcoming FSM release -- is "arguing"? Sometimes the psychology of this Forum fascinates me.

 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2012 - 7:56 AM   
 By:   Lukas Kendall   (Member)

I'm sure many will disagree with me but I would like to have some objection about this new release. I am a great fan of Miklos Rozsa and many of the CDs in my film music collection are his own. In fact among the first CDs I have purchased for this collection is the double CD set of Ben-Hur from Rhino Records. I don't think one could wish more than that, about 2 and a half hours of the original and complete soundtrack conducted by the composer himself. Besides Ben-Hur has so large a discography that any addition hardly seems necessary. Of course it's a fine work to release a 5-disc set dedicated to this monumental score but my opinion is that it would be better to release more Rozsa scores that either are completely neglected and unknown in discography or small portions of them have been recorded so far. Miklos Rozsa's film scores are a treasure still waiting to be discovered fully. Among the 90 scores he wrote many remain obscure and hard to find. It would be wonderful if these lost gems were found and offered to all Rozsa fans to enjoy. Knight Without Armour (1937), The Four Feathers (1939), Lydia (1941), Lady Hamilton (1941), Four Graves to Cairo (1943), Sahara (1943), Dark Waters (1944), A Double Life (1947) that won him an Oscar, The Red Danube (1949), Beau Brummell (1954).

Hi ClassicMovieFan: Sadly, most of those 1940s scores no longer have surviving master tapes.

We included The Red Danube and Beau Brummell on our Rozsa box set, of which there are only 40 copies left:
http://www.screenarchives.com/title_detail.cfm/ID/13181/MIKLOS-ROZSA-TREASURY-2000-EDITION/

Lukas

 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2012 - 8:15 AM   
 By:   lexedo   (Member)

I have not wanted to do the "room tone" between tracks because of listening problems when making playlists in iTunes, etc.

Lukas


A way I've gotten around this is to make "merged" tracks for my portable players. I do this mostly for operas and other pieces where "pauses" between track markers disrupt my timing. So, I take the first act of Caveleira Rusticana and I put it into 1 file; then the intermezzo; then act 2. I've done the same with How the West Was Won and Ben Hur (Rhino), as examples.

The reason why there are subtle "pauses" after tracks in portable players has to do with "padding" in music files to ensure complete frames. I won't go into more detail bc most probably do not care.

 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2012 - 8:19 AM   
 By:   goldsmith-rulez   (Member)

A superflous release. All relevant bases covered already.

Wow.
Just wow.

What are you smoking? And please....don't share.


People who honestly think they must get every single shred of every single piece of film music even in a score as distinguished as this one, while at the same time almost all of the material has already been released previously, seriously need to get a life!

 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2012 - 8:30 AM   
 By:   Chris Rimmer   (Member)

A superflous release. All relevant bases covered already.

Wow.
Just wow.

What are you smoking? And please....don't share.


People who honestly think they must get every single shred of every single piece of film music even in a score as distinguished as this one, while at the same time almost all of the material has already been released previously, seriously need to get a life!


Most of Ben Hur has been released previously (I'll give you that) but never in this quality and the album versions have been crying out for a remastering for years, and I for one have never heard the Lion "Musical Highlights Disc"

I have the Rhino and the Sony release of the two MGM albums but this is going to render those redundant.

 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2012 - 8:38 AM   
 By:   Dave Norris   (Member)

Deleted

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2012 - 8:41 AM   
 By:   TJ   (Member)

A superflous release. All relevant bases covered already.

Wow.
Just wow.

What are you smoking? And please....don't share.


People who honestly think they must get every single shred of every single piece of film music even in a score as distinguished as this one, while at the same time almost all of the material has already been released previously, seriously need to get a life!


Most of Ben Hur has been released previously (I'll give you that) but never in this quality and the album versions have been crying out for a remastering for years, and I for one have never heard the Lion "Musical Highlights Disc"

I have the Rhino and the Sony release of the two MGM albums but this is going to render those redundant.



Plus, on the Sony, the various LP's (and original film tracks) were re-arranged to chronological order. I don't have the Rhino anymore, I had the Sony re-issue in more convenient packaging. I plan on selling both and only keeping the FSM.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2012 - 8:53 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

I've got the Rhino cds, so I've Ben-Heard, done that. But at least Miklos can retire his oft-quoted comic line:

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2012 - 10:59 AM   
 By:   TerraEpon   (Member)

I think people aren't looking at this quite right. Yes, this release is five discs, but a disc and a half of it is from LPs.
Added to that, the first two discs total 8-9 less than the Rhino.

All in all it's about an hour and a half extra....not much more than a single CD worth. It's still a lot 'extra' but far from what people are claiming.

FSM tossed all those extra King of Kings tracks into the Rozsa Box too, and I don't remember anyone complaining about those.

 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2012 - 11:34 AM   
 By:   George Komar   (Member)

I think people aren't looking at this quite right.

It all depends what "this" is. If you look at the new BEN-HUR release as a "product," a material possession that occupies space on a shelf or a download on an iPod, what Jerry Goldsmith called a collector's "bottlecap," then you can do the math and come to your own conclusions.

But if you look at the new release as a "labor of love" -- and yes, Lukas and the FSM team have poured a lot of spirit, research, energy and love into making this the ultimate release of Rozsa's magnum opus -- then you will look at "this" with renewed appreciation, gratitude and, yes, "love." The "Cue Assembly Guide" alone should tip you off as to the amount of "labor" that went into this project. Read Frank DeWald's extensively researched notes, and Ralph Erkelenz’s full musical essay that preceded it, based on his Library of Congress and Syracuse University research. Listen to the alternate Entr'acte cue so gloriously remastered by Mike Matessino; note his ingenious reconstruction of the complete version of "Panem et Circenses" on Disc IV -- the sound on this release will be second to none. Those who read about, listen to and resonate with this score will truly appreciate FSM's gift.

 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2012 - 12:12 PM   
 By:   Ed Leachman   (Member)

A superflous release. All relevant bases covered already.

I'm not buying this watermelon!

 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2012 - 12:26 PM   
 By:   George Komar   (Member)

I'm not buying this watermelon!

You sound like the guy (to adapt Lukas' now legendary proverb) who picks up a watermelon in a grocery store and announces to the world, "I'm not buying this watermelon!"

Do you expect people to alert CNN of your decision? Who cares!!

 
 Posted:   Feb 18, 2012 - 12:26 PM   
 By:   Moonie   (Member)

ok my 2 cents , this probably is the greatest score out of Rozsa'a catalogue , its from FSM so you know it will be mastered correctly and the sound quality will be superb, its all the music and then some from Ben Hur , 60 bucks is a Steel for 5 cds and beats the pootang out of Spartacus , oh and one more thing , ITS BEN HUR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

smile

 
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