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Moreso, I'd like to see Criterion release more against-the-grain titles that mainline critics often sneer at. If the first Evil Dead or George Romero's early films got the criterion treatment (I'm thinking Martin or The Crazies here), I'd be ecstatic; so I appreciate the effort to take a risk & I hope it leads to other titles.
I wouldn't be averse to Raimi's original Evil Dead films or Martin on Criterion; I just don't want older classics - European, Japanese, etc. especially - to be overlooked in favor of too much cultish stuff.
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Posted: |
Jun 17, 2016 - 5:14 PM
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By: |
jenkwombat
(Member)
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"Let's not get too snobbish"
My own list of favorite films is a list of B-movies, cult flicks and trash pics. I would love it if Criterion would do more of that kind of stuff. I was simply responding to their own snobbish public image, particularly during their earlier years (admittedly), as an "art house" company. So when films like "The Blob", "Halloween" and "Videodrome" began popping up next to "The Seventh Seal", "The Grand Illusion", "La Aventura", some of us simply said, "Huh?". That's all.
(Oh, and I actually kind of liked "Armageddon", if I recall. {I can enjoy silly movies.} "The Rock", not so much.)
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Posted: |
Jun 17, 2016 - 6:13 PM
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By: |
Essankay
(Member)
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Let's not get too snobbish.
"The Valley of the Dolls" is a movie based on a trashy novel. As such, it was given sterling production values and is beautifully photographed and scored (by Johnny Williams based on songs and themes by Andre Previn and Dory Langdon).
It's a wallow. It's entertaining. If you're too "above it", don't buy it. But don't presume to suggest it's not good enough.
Why not? There's no shortage of home video companies catering to people's taste for trash, for cult items, for sleaze, for glossy big-studio "wallows". There's far fewer that will take a chance on stuff like Dekalog, La Chienne, Il Sorpasso, or The Milky Way. When Criterion releases something like Armageddon I content myself with the thought that it will likely pay for more rarified or "difficult" material. When I see them release something like Valley of the Dolls (a camp classic, for sure, and enjoyable enough in that way but a very bad film) I wonder if they've gone off the rails because I don't see it as either a big seller or as living up to their mission statement and thus serving no real purpose for Criterion.
Maybe I'm wrong, though, and there's a huge untapped audience for VotD at Criterion prices. I hope I'm wrong, so it can potentially finance a Criterion release of Los Olvidados!
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Maybe I'm wrong, though, and there's a huge untapped audience for VotD at Criterion prices. I hope I'm wrong, so it can potentially finance a Criterion release of Los Olvidados!
...or a restored The Devils with proper aspect ratio and color correction...
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Isn't Criterion dedicated to...good films?
I once thought that too. Then, they released "Armageddon" and "The Rock"....
Child's play.
Think of "Salo" and "The Sweet Movie"....THOSE were the nadir of Criterion's releases, IMO.
Foreign language films by 'arty' directors are mother's milk to Criterion!
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Posted: |
Jun 17, 2016 - 9:56 PM
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By: |
RoryR
(Member)
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Let's not get too snobbish.
"The Valley of the Dolls" is a movie based on a trashy novel. As such, it was given sterling production values and is beautifully photographed and scored (by Johnny Williams based on songs and themes by Andre Previn and Dory Langdon).
It's a wallow. It's entertaining. If you're too "above it", don't buy it. But don't presume to suggest it's not good enough.
Oh, please... lets! It's fun to be snobbish, especially if you can do a good Clifton Webb imitation, which I wish I could, so I'll have to just stick with George Sanders in ALL ABOUT EVE.
Anyway, as to VALLEY OF THE DOLLS (1967)
Found some interesting factoids on Wikipedia and IMDb.
Co-star Parkins, attending a July 1997 screening of the film at the Castro Theatre in San Francisco, told the sold-out crowd, "I know why you like it...because it's so bad!"
The original screenwriter was Harlan Ellison!!!!! WTF?!!!!
Upon its release the picture was roundly scorned and condemned by critics. Moaned Bosley Crowther in the December 16, 1967, issue of The New York Times, "... all a fairly respectful admirer of movies can do is laugh at it and turn away."
This proved to be a big break for Sharon Tate even though she wasn't at all keen on the book or the resulting film.
And finally...
Author Jacqueline Susann hated the film and called it "a piece of shit".
Anyway, I'm not too snobby to admit I've owned VALLEY OF THE DOLLS on DVD for over a decade -- though I've probably only watched it twice -- and I'd get it on Blu-ray, but at $39.95 for the Criterion edition, I'm going to have to take a pill and skip it.
Anyway, the one that I am interested in from this batch of Criterion releases is THE DECALOGUE. I never seen it, but I've read that Stanley Kubrick liked it. That's good enough a recommendation for snobby me.
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Posted: |
Jun 17, 2016 - 10:06 PM
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By: |
RoryR
(Member)
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I'm very interested in BTVOTD, because of Ebert & Myer's involvement & the fact that it's become such a cult movie (I'm not interested in VOTD). Pleasantly surprised that Criterion stepped out of character for this one.
A friend of mine told me that when Roger Ebert was lecturing in Chicago (obviously before cancer took his voice), asked about "Beyond..." by a member of the audience, replied that Criterion was preparing "Beyond..." for DVD release. I wonder if that eventually became the Fox release. The special features on the Blu-Ray are very close to that DVD release.
Yes, I believe it did. Because of Roger Ebert's involvement with the film, Criterion has actually been interested in releasing it for a long time. They were close to doing it before but then Fox decided they wanted to release it.
UPDATE: Found this comment left at Blu-ray.com:
Beyond the Valley of the Dolls is a title Criterion had wanted to get for a long time. They actually produced the 1992 Q&A when they were still just a small label part of Voyager Company and were trying to get the film on Laserdisc. I guess that the rushes from the "1990 screening" that have been uploaded on YouTube, are actually from 1992, because the participants and the description totally fit otherwise.
https://youtu.be/Dqj1NQK7hS4
The Roger Ebert commentary was also reportedly originally recorded for a planned Criterion DVD, until Fox decided to put together an edition on their own. It took them 24 or 26 years, but their patience has finally paid off. This also means that Coleman Francis is now featured on Criterion.
So, RR... Is BEYOND THE VALLEY OF THE DOLLS really your favorite movie? I'm very curious how and why? Not kidding, really want to know. A very unusual favorite film.
I remember when both VALLEY and BEYOND first came out in theaters, but because I was only around ten years old, I thought from the titles they were horror movies.
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Posted: |
Jun 17, 2016 - 10:57 PM
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By: |
Essankay
(Member)
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Criterion's mandate is, and has always been, to release movies that have been noteworthy in some way--whether famous or infamous. "Good" is in the eye of the beholder, and they know that.
Their mission statement (which has evolved a bit over time) currently states : Since 1984, the Criterion Collection, a continuing series of important classic and contemporary films, has been dedicated to gathering the greatest films from around the world and publishing them in editions that offer the highest technical quality and award-winning, original supplements. Over the years, as we moved from laserdisc to DVD, Blu-ray disc, and online streaming, we’ve seen a lot of things change, but one thing has remained constant: our commitment to publishing the defining moments of cinema for a wider and wider audience.
The first sentence suggests a pursuit of excellence, the second is cleverly squishy enough to include just about anything.
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