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Posted: |
Dec 19, 2017 - 11:54 PM
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By: |
spiderich
(Member)
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The funny thing is: after TFA many fans complained that it was all a rehash of the original trilogy.
Now these fans complain that it is not a rehash.
I see a lot of this specious logic all over the internet. "You can't complain about this taking risks after you complained about the last one being safe" is small-minded bullshit. Of course you can. The failure is that both films failed to find the middle ground between familiar and new. Instead we have one that's so safe its sterile and another thats weird for the sake of breaking established material. Both are equally vapid, just on opposite ends of the scale.
I agree that this comment is specious logic. I haven't seen/heard any complaints that TLJ is not similar enough to the original movies. That is not the gist of the criticism. I mean, if The Force Awakens was 1/3 A New Hope, 1/3 The Empire Strikes Back, & 1/3 original, then TLJ is 1/3 TESB, 1/3 Return of the Jedi, & 1/3 original.
The criticism is based on inconsistent characterization (as others have pointed out) and weak/odd story choices. eg. Leia's "Mary Poppins in space" moment was cringe worthy to me. Did no one in the pre-screenings tell Rian Johnson that the execution was ridiculous? I get that Lucas was surrounded by yes-men, but surely Johnson shouldn't be!
While I didn't hate TLJ, I was frustrated/disappointed in it. I liked Rey in TFA, but not so much in TLJ. eg. She attacks Luke with a lightsaber, just to get the truth from him! Not heroic.
I feel that Finn is underused and his character arc in TLJ is similar to that in TFA: he's reluctant at first to help fight "the good fight", but then he comes around. That's regression, not progression. Poe comes across as borderline unreliable to the Resistance/Rebellion. I no longer have a great urge to see what happens next to these characters (though I did after TFA). Is that what Johnson wanted the audience to feel?
FWIW, I find myself agreeing with Mark Hamill that Disney should have used Lucas's story treatment for this trilogy. I believe that Hamill knows his character as well as Lucas. I like Lucas as an "idea man", but find his directing/dialoguing a bit problematic. :-)
Richard G.
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Posted: |
Dec 20, 2017 - 7:40 AM
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By: |
Solium
(Member)
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The funny thing is: after TFA many fans complained that it was all a rehash of the original trilogy. Now these fans complain that it is not a rehash.
Actually TLJ is very derivative of Empire, Return of the Jedi, and (Ironically!) Battlestar Galactica.
I didn't like any of the set ups in TFA, because it lead to what I thought we would get in TLJ. Luke training Rey, a new Emperor, a new Darth Vader, Rey's important family linage, etc. All wash and repeat, done so many times before.
So I was thrilled they dumped most of that in this latest outing. The problem is how they did it. It makes the first film pointless, and makes future films pointless in the Star Wars saga. As others have pointed out, there's no hero's journey, there's no growth, the Jedi's are emasculated. Apparently anyone can be a force user. You just have to tap into your inner soul. (This is a very maddening SJW messaging) There's zero character development for Rey. I've already touched on the disappointing ways they treated the classic characters.
Star Wars was stripped of what made it Star Wars. It's just another generic sci fi/fantasy series now.
I have a feeling with such backlash they will do a course correction for the next film. But with JJ back in the directors seat it's gonna turn into rehash deluxe. I shudder at the thought.
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Posted: |
Dec 20, 2017 - 9:39 AM
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By: |
Grecchus
(Member)
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You want a spoiler?
As with TFA, I won't be seeing TLJ. I hear that after two episodes, they've trashed the Snoke mystery figure. There's been a lot of internet speculation who, or what, Snoke represents. Maybe Snoke is merely an inhouse joke being played on the masses.
I've suspected that following the outcry over CGI representations of real life personages, the rebuked mandarins of the Pixel Shakespeare Co decided to take their own revenge by basing Snoke on a real life character who has been right under everyone's noses all along. They like to have the last laugh, you see. Snoke is nothing more than a red herring creation, and based on the likeness of Dennis Muren himself. They've caricatured him somewhat by splitting his face down the middle and making one side higher/lower with respect to the other. You may recall that Dennis had a cameo in Raiders, playing a shadowy Gestapo-like figure tailing Indie on the flying boat. The joke is he was reading Life Magazine while masking his face with it. I find it really funny they actually did this in plain sight. Snoke was their way of using a real life taboo personal likeness at the expense of the sleepwalking masses. Dennis Muren was, I believe, the head of the CGI unit at ILM when Jurassic Park made dinos respectable to the eyes of the world. I mean, isn't that funny?
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ISIS destroy ancient landmarks and tomes of significance.
Yoda destroys the Jedi Tree and ancient Jedi scrolls (Luke's pornographic art scroll collection).
Yoda = ISIS
Fact!!!!
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Leia floats majestically in space after being 'sploded out her spaceship. But assuming that ship is actually moving - they are in a chase, after all - at 60,000 miles an hour, her being blown out of it for 30 seconds would mean she should actually be 500 miles away behind, not hovering about just outside, also she would have been splatted by the fleet behind.
But It would have been ace to have the rebels fleeing, Leia space flying behind trying to catch up, then the Empire behind her for the last 20 minutes of that chase.
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The humour in the Last Jedi was such that this scene would not have been out of place:
Luke goes to the shoreline and being to milk a many-teeted space-walrus and drink it's milk. Rey looks on.
Rey: You do know those are six dicks, right?
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Posted: |
Dec 23, 2017 - 7:06 AM
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By: |
Solium
(Member)
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Leia floats majestically in space after being 'sploded out her spaceship. But assuming that ship is actually moving - they are in a chase, after all - at 60,000 miles an hour, her being blown out of it for 30 seconds would mean she should actually be 500 miles away behind, not hovering about just outside, also she would have been splatted by the fleet behind.
But It would have been ace to have the rebels fleeing, Leia space flying behind trying to catch up, then the Empire behind her for the last 20 minutes of that chase.
Regarding the science, wouldn't Leia be moving at the same rate as the ship? There's no resistance in space. As a matter of fact since she got sucked out of the front of the ship she'll actually be moving ahead and slightly faster than the cruiser. If the ship sped up then yeah she would be left in the dust.
Personally and this is not directed at you, but I don't get all the complaints regarding how space works in a Star Wars film. It's a fantasy and they've never, ever worried about such things before. Even in Empire, they're simply wearing oxygen masks while inside the space slug. No environmental suits, or even a body forming force field. They are in fact walking around in the vacuum of space. That small asteroid even had an Earth like gravity.
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