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 Posted:   Feb 7, 2018 - 11:46 AM   
 By:   Rameau   (Member)

This thread reads like a conversation from 1953.

Blimey, how old are you? I'm 68 this year & can't remember any conversations from 1953.

 
 Posted:   Feb 7, 2018 - 12:26 PM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

Heh. As opposed to brouhaha WITHOUT a statement.
big grin

 
 Posted:   Feb 7, 2018 - 2:46 PM   
 By:   WagnerAlmighty   (Member)

Heh. As opposed to brouhaha WITHOUT a statement.
big grin


I think that's actually a BWA-ha-ha...


I could be wrong.

 
 Posted:   Feb 7, 2018 - 2:59 PM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

I think that's actually a BWA-ha-ha...
I could be wrong.



Yes, I think you would be.
(Unless you happen to have some evidence that Cage perpetrated all of this as some pretentious scam merely to shake up the pseuds.)

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 7, 2018 - 3:15 PM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

THE CAGE is one of my fav Star Trek TOS episodes. Which reminds me...

 
 Posted:   Feb 7, 2018 - 3:20 PM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

So then the question really is: was Trelane, in fact, a Q?

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 7, 2018 - 3:43 PM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

So then the question really is: was Trelane, in fact, a Q?

That was the premise of a ST:NextGen novel.

You have to wonder about those Thasians ("Charlie X") and Metrons ("Arena").

 
 Posted:   Feb 7, 2018 - 11:32 PM   
 By:   Adm Naismith   (Member)

So then the question really is: was Trelane, in fact, a Q?

That was the premise of a ST:NextGen novel.

You have to wonder about those Thasians ("Charlie X") and Metrons ("Arena").


The galaxy at the time of TOS appeared to be fairly brimming with near omnipotent species. I think the Q are just the longest lived and the most (but not completely) omnipotent of them all.
Trelane could be a Q, but in their billions of years of existence, reproduction doesn't seem to be a thing they do very often, if at all (The Q and The Grey, notwithstanding). But apart from those 2 Voyager eps, we still don't know much about their social structures.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 8, 2018 - 3:39 PM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

The galaxy at the time of TOS appeared to be fairly brimming with near omnipotent species. I think the Q are just the longest lived and the most (but not completely) omnipotent of them all....But apart from those 2 Voyager eps, we still don't know much about their social structures.

I forgot about the Organians ("Errand of Mercy"). Apparently we carbon-based humanoid bipeds belong to the s-hole planets of the galaxy.
So I take it neither of us read that NextGen novel. It might have added to the Q lore, although irrelevant to the video audience.

 
 Posted:   Feb 8, 2018 - 8:02 PM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

So getting back to Cage for a second...

I think that if there are people living in today's musical climate that were not around in the 50's, when much of what we perceive as music was being conceptually challenged, then it's probably best to not to be too disparaging towards ideas that their own narrow view cannot grasp.

The 50's were an amazing time for thinking outside of the box and, thanks to the work of folks like Brian Eno and countless others, that philosophy is still alive and well.

One only needs the imagination, insight and sense of history to appreciate it.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 9, 2018 - 5:52 AM   
 By:   Graham Watt   (Member)

(June 1st, 1953) -

"Dad, a man called John Cage is doing a concert where he sits at a piano and doesn't do anything for nearly five minutes. What a waste of taxpayers' money."

"Son, what ya gorra do is think outside the box. He might be making a comment on the relationship between Art and our perception of a vacuum."

"Gee Dad, I just don't get all this Dali fad. People with heads that don't even look real."

"Yup, you're getting there son."

"So, if I go and crap on a brick, then send it in a glass case to the Modern London Tate Valley Museum, would they put it on display and pay me for my movement?"

"No son. It doesn't work that way."

"But Dad, what's the difference?"

"Just give it time, son. You'll see."

And at that, Dad folded his newspaper, leaned back, and stared out from the porch to the glistening trees. He always used to say that the trees "glistened". And, just for a moment, I grasped it.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 9, 2018 - 6:50 AM   
 By:   Rameau   (Member)

Yes, but that crap on a brick thing would stand a damn good chance of winning the Turner Prize big grin

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 9, 2018 - 7:38 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

And at that, Dad folded his newspaper, leaned back, and stared out from the porch to the glistening trees. He always used to say that the trees "glistened". And, just for a moment, I grasped it.

the trees listened or glistened? was he trying to answer the question whether a falling tree in the woods makes a sound?

 
 Posted:   Feb 9, 2018 - 8:37 AM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

Well, my last comment was really an appeal for WagnerAlmighty to expand their level of musical appreciation a bit--sort of lead them into a new frontier of thinking (if not necessarily listening). Because, frankly, I was getting the sense that for someone who has gone on at some length about the width and breadth of their musical knowledge, it seemed to not really be that wide (sorry to say).

However, I do stand by what I said about the far-reaching continuation of that school of thought which is carried on today by the artists I mentioned (Eno, etc.).
Call it an affection for the avantgarde, or affection for winding people up (who knows?--I wasn't there in 1952)--a little bit of a conceptual shake up can occasionally be a good thing.

 
 Posted:   Feb 9, 2018 - 10:14 AM   
 By:   Sean Nethery   (Member)

For those willing to be more than dismissive of this experiment/manifesto, this is a good article exploring the Zen underpinnings.

https://www.lionsroar.com/433/

It also does a good job describing the first "performance", particularly showcasing why doing it the way they did ensured that people would take it the wrong way ever since. (If you don't want something to be taken as a joke, don't offer it that way.)

 
 Posted:   Feb 9, 2018 - 10:35 AM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

For those willing to be more than dismissive of this experiment/manifesto, this is a good article exploring the Zen underpinnings.
https://www.lionsroar.com/433/
It also does a good job describing the first "performance", particularly showcasing why doing it the way they did ensured that people would take it the wrong way ever since. (If you don't want something to be taken as a joke, don't offer it that way.)



Excellent article. Easily as good as anything I've ever read about 4'33".
Thank you for the link, Sean.

 
 Posted:   Feb 9, 2018 - 10:38 AM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

What we need are fifty million "John Cage on..." threads. clearly we can't live without knowing what he thinks of this or that.

 
 Posted:   Feb 9, 2018 - 10:40 AM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

"Help Me Get Into The (John) Cage"?

 
 Posted:   Feb 9, 2018 - 10:43 AM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

I believe Quincy Jones can help you there...

 
 Posted:   Feb 9, 2018 - 11:49 AM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

4'33' may not be music, but it IS, in context, a brilliant piece of visual performance art. That's its box.

It's a joke on one level about what art is, and on a deeper level, it's a statement about silences in music, being and non-being, the place BEYOND music, that bypasses the Pied Piper that music is, and gets to paradox and resolution. It's even about meditation in a modern world. And we project onto silences.

PERFORMANCE ART. JUDGE IT BY THAT.

Thor wants the 3'33" edited cut for a better album experience.

 
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