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By the way, the only ongoing comic books I read are:
-TOM STRONG
-PROMETHEA
-THE LEAGUE OF EXTRAORDINARY GENTLEMEN
-ASTRO CITY
-JUSTICE LEAGUE ADVENTURES
-The occasional TARZAN mini-series from Dark Horse (Their Tarzan/Batman and Tarzan/Superman crossovers were cool as all hell)
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Posted: |
Jul 7, 2003 - 11:14 PM
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By: |
Joe E.
(Member)
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She used to read romance comics, too, but I never touched them until I bought a copy of a book called TRUER-THAN-TRUE ROMANCE COMICS. The book, written by Jeanne Martinet, is a work of genius. She took some stories from 50's and 60's DC romance comics, and erased the dialogue and thought balloons, and "re-dubbed" them, sort of like Woody Allen did for WHAT'S UP, TIGERLILY?
A few years ago there were plans to do a Mystery Science Theater 3000 comic book that applied the show's concept to this format, which sounds very similar to this. The idea was that they would use old Acclaim sci-fi comics and add in MST silhouettes across the bottoms of (at least some of) the panels / pages, and add in new dialogue ostensibly being supplied by the Sol captives. It never came to fruition, though.
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Posted: |
Jul 8, 2003 - 6:37 AM
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By: |
Juverna
(Member)
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I used to be feverishly into comic books in elementary school – not so much reading them as making them. I still have a bunch of them. They're embarrassingly bad. (Hey, Thor, we rock!) 
My grandfather, The Artist, is who I really picked up the habit from, and he's been working on a huge fantasy saga for a while now. The last I saw of it was about 50 pages of fully inked pieces of bristol paper. I'll have to figure out what happened to it - he's always doing nutsy, creative things. 
Now, I have one of Dark Horse's Star Wars "graphic novels", which is okay if you ignore all the blasphemous plot holes in the Star Wars universe (Jedi knights dropping out of the sky every couple of pages), and then one Tintin volume. Good, clean fun. Besides, we all know Snowy's the brains of the operation, don't we?
I also had a friend who let me borrow all manner of comic books, from Thieves and Kings to Akira, to Scott McCloud's "Understanding Comics" (which, in case you haven't read it, is great). So, I'm not really a collector, but I think the genre is insanely cool. Go, team.
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He produced 25 volumes of Lil' Abner and 3 volumes of Alley Oop, with signed editions by V.T. Hamlin. Flash Gordon Sunday Volumes with all that great Alex Raymond artwork.
NBM was the company that Produced the incredible Hardcover editions Terry and the Pirates and Tarzan Sunday Pages.
Fantagrpahics did Little Orphan Annie, Little Nemo in Slumberland, Prince Valiant, Polly and her Pals.
I have a bunch of the Li'l Abner books, and am still getting them from time to time in used bookstores and on eBay. I've gotten the latter three of the five volumes of Little Orphan Annie; the first two go for extortionate prices on-line, so I seriously doubt I'll be getting them anytime soon. I have nearly all of the NBM Terry and the Pirates paperbacks; like the Annie stuff, they're getting top dollar on the secondary market.
A few months ago, Dark Horse comics issued an oversized volume of Mac Raboy's Flash Gordon Sunday strips (in black and white, but still well worth getting).
Kitchen Sink teamed up with DC comics to reprint the early comic strip appearances of Batman and Superman. This is GREAT stuff, the artwork and stories far surpassing in sophistication what was being done in their respective comic books. The three Batman volumes are becoming scarcer by the day, but the three daily and the Sunday Superman reprints are still in comic shops all over the place.
There was a reason the 30's and 40's were called "The Golden Age"...this stuff was GREAT! Though its' sorta sobering for me to realize that virtually all of my favorite movies, books, filmscores and comic books were done before I was born.
NP: Knights of the Round Table/Miklos Rozsa.
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Posted: |
Jul 10, 2003 - 10:24 AM
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By: |
JohnSWalsh
(Member)
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I was a huge comic collector as a kid. X-Men were my favorites, and I enjoyed the relative sophistication of the storytelling.
But I'm 37 years old. I haven't read comic books in twenty years.
I loved them as a kid, and think it's childish to read them as an adult. I know I am in the minority on that, and find it interesting that all of our culture is turning into a march back to childhood--and I include in this the adult reading of Harry Potter books and watching cartoons. (And yes, that includes my own watching of The Simpsons.)
To head off the obvious replies, no, I don't read only Russian literature--Hell, I read crime novels! All I'm saying is that one reason movies suck is because we all seem to like the comic book/soap opera cliched characters and the extrememly juvenile resurrection of dead characters.
Popular culture is turning into a playground only for those who want to remain children.
BTW, I don't care what anyone else reads. I just think all this stuff is childish crap, even the quality stuff my comic-reading friend foists on me.
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Posted: |
Jul 10, 2003 - 1:28 PM
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By: |
MWRuger
(Member)
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I was a huge comic collector as a kid. X-Men were my favorites, and I enjoyed the relative sophistication of the storytelling.
But I'm 37 years old. I haven't read comic books in twenty years.
I loved them as a kid, and think it's childish to read them as an adult. I know I am in the minority on that, and find it interesting that all of our culture is turning into a march back to childhood--and I include in this the adult reading of Harry Potter books and watching cartoons. (And yes, that includes my own watching of The Simpsons.)
To head off the obvious replies, no, I don't read only Russian literature--Hell, I read crime novels! All I'm saying is that one reason movies suck is because we all seem to like the comic book/soap opera cliched characters and the extrememly juvenile resurrection of dead characters.
Popular culture is turning into a playground only for those who want to remain children.
BTW, I don't care what anyone else reads. I just think all this stuff is childish crap, even the quality stuff my comic-reading friend foists on me.
Rubbish.
Your attitude is exactly the kind of narrow minded response that has kept American comics mired in the superhero/soap operatic mode that you despise so much. (Comics are for Kids) Thankfully, this attitude is finally starting to die down and isn’t shared by most other countries that have their own comic industries.
I find quite ironic that your attitude towards comics and comic art is mirrored by classical music lovers who consider film music beneath them and unworthy of their notice.
You are almost certainly correct when you say that you are probably in the minority here and while you are entitled to your opinion, it is uninformed and filled with your obvious disdain and dislike of the medium. It is very difficult to view your opinion as anything other than inflammatory for the sake of argument. Otherwise why come to a thread where everyone is talking about comics and piss all over them? A simple no without all the insulting invective would have sufficed.
Your opinions about the debasement of American culture are not new. People bemoaned how the penny dreadfuls were ruining serious culture in this country before the First World War.
I certainly hope your comic reading friends stop bothering you with any more comic material and save it for someone who hasn’t already made up their minds.
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Posted: |
Jul 10, 2003 - 7:08 PM
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By: |
Juverna
(Member)
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I loved them as a kid, and think it's childish to read them as an adult. I know I am in the minority on that, and find it interesting that all of our culture is turning into a march back to childhood--and I include in this the adult reading of Harry Potter books and watching cartoons. (And yes, that includes my own watching of The Simpsons.)
You're brave to assert this. No, I'm not going to attack you, because your problem isn't really with comic books. (And if it was, you probably have your comic-reading friend there to tell you that it's a flexible medium with lots of possibilities. And they wouldn't be wrong. )
I, too, am often tired of the old villains-and-heroes stories with nothing new or intriguing to offer. Though, you have to admit, sometimes, you just need the blunt simplicity of a quick story that ensures that the world is that black-and-white. Some people cling to that fantasy, and some like to visit it now and then (e.g. you). But those cliches occur in every medium, so don't take the "comic books are childish" stance here... I won't dive into that fight. 
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Posted: |
Jul 10, 2003 - 8:52 PM
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By: |
JohnSWalsh
(Member)
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BTW, I don't care what anyone else reads. I just think all this stuff is childish crap, even the quality stuff my comic-reading friend foists on me.
"Rubbish.
Your attitude is exactly the kind of narrow minded response that has kept American comics mired in the superhero/soap operatic mode that you despise so much. (Comics are for Kids) Thankfully, this attitude is finally starting to die down and isn’t shared by most other countries that have their own comic industries."
Your childish, crybaby response proves my point. I'm not telling nayone else what to read, and guess what? Your OPINION is no more "correct" than my OPINION.
I don't understand why comic book fans get so petulant when someone else, who has access to as many or more comic than the average person, dislikes the form. I don't like watching episodic television either. Do you feel threatened? You shouldn't.
"I find quite ironic that your attitude towards comics and comic art is mirrored by classical music lovers who consider film music beneath them and unworthy of their notice."
What's ironic about it? Some people don't like a form of music other folks do--wow, there's a shock!
"You are almost certainly correct when you say that you are probably in the minority here and while you are entitled to your opinion, it is uninformed and filled with your obvious disdain and dislike of the medium."
Your kneejerk response is pathetic--someone doesn't like what you like, it can't possibly be because they have read many comic books and simply don't enjoy them, he must be uninformed!
The disdain and dislike is no big revelation--I SAID as much. Why this bothers you so much that you write a nasty little post focusing on ME as opposed to the comics sure isn't disuading me from thinking comic book fans over the age of 18 are overgrown adolescents.
"It is very difficult to view your opinion as anything other than inflammatory for the sake of argument."
That's your problem. That you're so defensive about the subject says a lot. Do you feel a secret shame at your hobby? That's very sad. I enjoy my hobbies, and if someone pisses on my soundtrack collection or enjoyment of movies, I'd take that as a position, not a personal attack on me. I'd then suggest "Hey, try this soundtrack, you might like it." A friend years ago listened to me rant about how much I loathe the Grateful Dead (and still do), and replied by bringing one of their albums to work and playing it, without telling me what it was. I liked it. Didn't convert me, just made me be more open. I tried some more of their music...and still didn't like it. Did I tell him he was ignorant and inflammatory for exposing me to an idea I didn't agree with? I guess by your attitude I should have.
"Otherwise why come to a thread where everyone is talking about comics and piss all over them?"
The thread isn't "Let's all sit around and say 'I like Hulk!' or "I like Watchmen.'" It's "Comic Books...you read 'em?" If you can't take opposing opinons, maybe you should go back to your little fantasy worlds.
"A simple no without all the insulting invective would have sufficed."
Oh, yes, O Mighty One, whatever you say. That would have made a fascinating post. The "invective" is merely my expression of why someone who used to like comics doesn't anymore. You don't like it? Boo-freakin-Hoo. I can only imagine hundreds of comic book fans have read my comments and said "My God, he's right!" and tossed their copies of Cerberus in the trash. Yeah, sure.
"Your opinions about the debasement of American culture are not new. People bemoaned how the penny dreadfuls were ruining serious culture in this country before the First World War."
As opposed to your stunning comments about comics--oh, wait, you haven't offered any--just bitching that someone doesn't share your opinion. And who cares if they're not new? I suppose all of your opinions are stunningly original--well lay 'em on us. Or are they so original that no one can hear about them for fear of bursting into flames?
"I certainly hope your comic reading friends stop bothering you with any more comic material and save it for someone who hasn’t already made up their minds."
No, they're pretty interesting people who like to talk about books and movies and music and art and they don't cry when someone reads their favorite comics and doesn't like them. They listen to what I say and give their opposing views, then explain why they enjoy the evolution of comic art and why they like this artist or that writer. Most of them have moved on from comics, but one or two still read them. If they thought like you they'd say "You're stupid for not liking exactly what we like!" They're a lot more mature than that.
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Posted: |
Jul 10, 2003 - 8:57 PM
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By: |
JohnSWalsh
(Member)
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"You're brave to assert this. No, I'm not going to attack you, because your problem isn't really with comic books. (And if it was, you probably have your comic-reading friend there to tell you that it's a flexible medium with lots of possibilities. And they wouldn't be wrong. )"
I agree. I just don't care for what is done with the medium. I still recall books like The Spirit and artists like Druillet with pleasure--Druillet certainly wasn't creating superhero books. The friend who is the really hardcore comic fan (he used to work for a comic distributor)showed me a variety of work. I think my boredom is over the content, not the style.
"I, too, am often tired of the old villains-and-heroes stories with nothing new or intriguing to offer. Though, you have to admit, sometimes, you just need the blunt simplicity of a quick story that ensures that the world is that black-and-white."
You're right. My girlfriend loves reading mysteries, too, and I think it's for the same reason--something bad happens and it's put right by the end. I sure don't read many "deep" novels of late; I'm all for good escapism. A steady diet of comics just bored me, and when I started seeing more books later on, I guess the connection was gone, you know?
"Some people cling to that fantasy, and some like to visit it now and then (e.g. you). But those cliches occur in every medium,"
Yup.
" so don't take the "comic books are childish" stance here... I won't dive into that fight.
Well, you don't have to, but it's still my stance. I somehow think you'll survive and continue to enjoy the books knowing that somewhere, someone doesn't. 
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Posted: |
Jul 10, 2003 - 9:23 PM
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By: |
Joe E.
(Member)
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Of course you don't have to like them, John; I don't think anyone's arguing that.
What's a tad objectionable is that you're making judgements about an entire creative form just because you don't care for it - not just saying "I don't like them," but "they're childish crap." I'd even go so far as to agree that many if not most of them are childish crap, but that doesn't mean the form is completely bereft of even the potential for mature, considered, creative expression worthy of adults' attentions.
It's essentially the same thing as saying "I don't like music; therefore, music is trash fit only for children, and everyone who enjoys it is immature - and hey, that's perfectly fine, if that's what they want." Appending that disclaimer doesn't quite fully compensate for the preceding statement.
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