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Guess I missed the other thread (should've looked farther down the page).
No, this is was on another board altogether.
Not offended. Intrigued, perplexed, fascinated by the aforementioned counter-intuitive genius that is George Lucas' handling and marketing of Star Wars.
Oh, theres nothing genius about it. I don't like the new changes, either.
The difference is I'm not acting like a spoiled brat over it either, nor am I feigning surprise or a misplaced indignation over this.
So you try to impress by being a contrarian?
Its not a matter of impressing so much as its a matter of being a goddamned adult about things.
Firstly, George Lucas owns Star Wars. You do not. Your childhood does not. Its his. He can fuck it up however he likes.
Secondly, Lucas is not attempting to piss off fans but create a "perfect", continuity error free group of films. While you and I agree that we don't want these edits, this is actually an admirable goal even if the final result is something of a bastardization. But with that in mind, heres the nail in the coffin - noting and I mean NOTHING the Internet has attempted to paint this as is true. This is not "George Lucas hates me" or "rapes childhoods" or any of that shit-steam heat nonsense. Thats just small-minded children who grew older but never grew up. Its almost like a wide-spread case of an Asperger's logic.
Next, If you're surprised he's doing this after the 1997 Special Edition, you need brain medication and/or therapy. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me multiple times over the last fifteen years using the same tools and editing devices and changes across multiple formats, shame on me.
PT Barnum said that theres a sucker born every minute and in this case the suckers aren't the people buying the BluRays but the people hating on them. You're surprised he's doing this again? Thats like saying you're astonished the sun rises in the morning. Are people really this stupid?
If the Internet wants to be angry at someone - go to the press. They covered the BR annoucements weeks (months?) ago and they never mentioned these things despite having seen the footage. This is because the press is bought; they're given free stuff and press credentials and are basically bribed NOT to give bad press about this set. You want to be angry? Go be angry at the failure of mass media.
Finally - No one cares. No one SHOULD care. But the internet does, unfortunately. The moment you agree with the Internet, your self-respect alarms should go off. This is something thats been beaten to death. THE PHANTOM MENACE RUINED EVERYTHING (no, it didn't) AND GEORGE LUCAS HATES THE FANS (he doesn't know you're alive) AND HE JUST DOESN'T GET IT (yes he does).
But the internet has no problem with detailing the Star Wars universe to death (small universe syndrome) by explaining away the backstory of every alien in the Cantina, is more interested in how many guns Boba Fett has on his armor, with how big the biggest spaceship is in its canon. About the horrible, horrible novels (A star destroyer burried underneath Imperial City... used as a prison... and then takes off... Thats a novel! Or how about the ZOMBIE STORMTROOPER novel?), the crappy tie-ins like The Force Unleashed 2 (and its dreadful novels) or the comic books (which are nothing more than simple continuity masturbation) or any number of things that the people that DEMAND THE ORIGINAL EDITS support lovingly despite the fact they're a far greater "whoring out" than anything Lucas could create in a wetdream.
Heres a joke for you: Whats worse for Star Wars than George Lucas in an editing suite?
Answer: The fans.
(That John Scalzi peice is crap. Campbell approved of Star Wars because it works. It adheres to the universal material Campbell only pointed out. To say otherwise would also be attacking Frank Herbert, which I doubt this guy has the stones to do. Its sour grapes from some iffy sci-fi writer who photoshops pictures of himself to put on Wikipedia. Yeah, great, I guess - but thats no one anyone should listen to.)
Don't mince words, LeHah. What do you really think?
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I have stopped careing...it was OK 1997 but this is becoming rediculous...
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Posted: |
Sep 2, 2011 - 3:34 PM
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By: |
Sarge
(Member)
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Bill Hunt over at The Digital Bits has offered a sober opinion which sums up my feelings nicely -
"Predictably, the online geek community is aflame today. Here's the thing: I'm really having a hard time getting worked up about it. We've just been through this too many times now. Every time these films are released, Lucas tweaks and changes them some more. And the tweaks and changes don't really improve the films, they just make them... different. The fact is, Star Wars stopped being what I loved and remembered a very LONG time ago. The combination of the prequels, repeated digital nips and tucks to the originals (Episode IV now reminds me more of Joan Rivers than a beloved classic film), the obvious BS about the original versions "no longer existing", etc, etc - it's all left me feeling fairly ambivalent about Star Wars."
And -
"Regardless, a lot of Bits readers have been e-mailing today expecting me to react with the same sort of outrage they're experiencing right now. But I've been there and done that, when the last round of DVDs came out in 2006. So while I can't say that I still share your pain, believe me I understand it. The thing is, this is just the reality of Star Wars. We go through this like every 5 or 6 years. Despite past experience, fans continue to expect miracles... and every time, the curtain gets pulled back and we see the guy yanking on the levers again. For better or worse. And you know, I don't hate him for it. Hell... when I was ten back in 1977, and my folks were going through an ugly divorce, I saw Star Wars one afternoon and suddenly life was pretty good. Maybe it's reaching middle age, but I really can't get tweaked about this stuff anymore. Fact is, George has been fiddling with these films for 34 years now. I know that because the second time I saw Star Wars in a theatre back in 1978 - okay fine, the tenth or fifteenth time - it suddenly had the words 'Episode IV' added to the front. George may NEVER consider these films finished to his satisfaction. So fans really need to come to grips with it at long last. Hell, the 501st Legion should start up a worldwide support group - a 12-step Star Wars PTSD recovery plan.
Anyway, to paraphrase a wise old wizard: Maybe these aren't the droids you're looking for anymore... "
http://www.digitalbits.com/#083111
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Posted: |
Sep 2, 2011 - 4:07 PM
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By: |
KubrickFan
(Member)
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I'm done with Lucas and his constant tinkering. The first time he did it, his reasons for altering certain things were fairly plausible, but now he just changes things for the heck of it. One of the reasons the original trilogy works, is because they didn't have the technology or the money to do everything. That tends to spark the imagination, and made the movies work. The other would be that George didn't have as much (or any?) "yes men" around during the first movies.
So I won't be buying the Blu-rays.
Oh, and I would wish that people would stop with the "raping of childhoods" nonsense. I've been critical of Lucas' tinkering for quite a while, and, apart from those South Park episodes, I have never encountered anyone who used that term against Lucas. The many times it was used was by people who were vocal against those who hate the changes Lucas made. So the exact opposite. I never used such a term, and would never use it either. I understand that Lucas can and does make the changes he wants to make, but I would like to think that the original versions, since those were the ones that made the money and earned the awards, shouldn't be buried because the creator isn't entirely satisfied with them.
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Posted: |
Sep 2, 2011 - 4:50 PM
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By: |
Octoberman
(Member)
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Here's this guy who, though sheer hard work and ingenuity (from himself and a host of others), alchemized a bunch of different things together into something he could call uniquely his own.
Then he returns to it again and again, fixing and re-fixing what he perceives as mistakes.
That's fine. As he so often points out, they're his movies. The problem is (and this is my main point, here) that in his zeal to change things he got wrong, he's inadvertently changing things he got right!
So if anyone is going to go so far as saying "George Lucas raped..." (and I don't think anybody here did), then they may as well say that if he raped anyone, it was himself.
It's such a shame he couldn't leave them alone. Taken all for all, those movies were some damn excellent entertainment.
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Posted: |
Sep 2, 2011 - 5:26 PM
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By: |
MikeP
(Member)
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I don't get the outrage either. When this first surfaced a few days ago, I checked the clip in question, actually laughed and shook my head. Hell, I cancelled my Blu Ray pre-order since I have about $250 trade credit at a local store and sooner or later, someone will trade theirs in and I'll get it with credit.
I love the original trilogy, pretty much groove on the special editions, and heaven help me, I liked Clones OK and really liked Sith. The changes never bothered me really ( they got tiring, all the changes, but hell, they're Lucas' property ) , but the "nooooooo" is really just stupid. That's it. Dumb. Worse than the funny moment in Sith where Vader stamps his feet and moans "Nnnnnnnnnnnnnnooooo" . So, with a chuckle I backed out of the Blu Ray. Not a big deal.
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Posted: |
Sep 3, 2011 - 12:34 AM
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By: |
Cooper
(Member)
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Not offended. Intrigued, perplexed, fascinated by the aforementioned counter-intuitive genius that is George Lucas' handling and marketing of Star Wars.
Oh, theres nothing genius about it. I don't like the new changes, either.
Its genius lies in its effectiveness--in terms of franchise longevity, home video sales and future theatrical re-release--despite its wrong-headedness...
The difference is I'm not acting like a spoiled brat over it either, nor am I feigning surprise or a misplaced indignation over this.
I won't debate you about the placement of your own indignation, but your cup runneth over with it.
So you try to impress by being a contrarian?
Its not a matter of impressing so much as its a matter of being a goddamned adult about things.
Firstly, George Lucas owns Star Wars. You do not. Your childhood does not. Its his. He can fuck it up however he likes.
The latter, he is ably demonstrating.
Secondly, Lucas is not attempting to piss off fans but create a "perfect", continuity error free group of films. While you and I agree that we don't want these edits, this is actually an admirable goal even if the final result is something of a bastardization. But with that in mind, heres the nail in the coffin - noting and I mean NOTHING the Internet has attempted to paint this as is true. This is not "George Lucas hates me" or "rapes childhoods" or any of that shit-steam heat nonsense. Thats just small-minded children who grew older but never grew up. Its almost like a wide-spread case of an Asperger's logic.
Get out of the corn field and stop using those straw man arguments; i.e. ascribing views to me and others who do not hold them.
And you are aware--as presently constituted--"The Internet" also holds the views of one LeHah?
Next, If you're surprised he's doing this after the 1997 Special Edition, you need brain medication and/or therapy. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me multiple times over the last fifteen years using the same tools and editing devices and changes across multiple formats, shame on me.
And what medication might aid you in not misattributing surprise to me and others where none is present?
PT Barnum said that theres a sucker born every minute and in this case the suckers aren't the people buying the BluRays but the people hating on them. You're surprised he's doing this again? Thats like saying you're astonished the sun rises in the morning. Are people really this stupid?
It is fair to say that even those who've been conditioned to expect further changes to Star Wars may be disillusioned at the nature of the alterations...and degree to which they are being implemented.
If the Internet wants to be angry at someone - go to the press. They covered the BR annoucements weeks (months?) ago and they never mentioned these things despite having seen the footage. This is because the press is bought; they're given free stuff and press credentials and are basically bribed NOT to give bad press about this set. You want to be angry? Go be angry at the failure of mass media.
Now those crows are roosting on your dang straw men...when they're not flitting away to eat more of your corn. I'm not angry, don't want to be.
But you've certainly got a rage on. Word.
And wouldn't your "shoot the messenger" dictate to rail at the media be just another form of misplacement of indignation, which you cited some for earlier? Whether or not the Star Wars Blu-rays got a preliminary rave or a rant, the people in question wouldn't dislike them any less for what they are.
Finally - No one cares.
I can tell from all your sturm und drang...
No one SHOULD care. But the internet does, unfortunately. The moment you agree with the Internet, your self-respect alarms should go off.
Lehah. You are my Internet...
This is something thats been beaten to death.
And there's blood on your hands...
THE PHANTOM MENACE RUINED EVERYTHING (no, it didn't) AND GEORGE LUCAS HATES THE FANS (he doesn't know you're alive) AND HE JUST DOESN'T GET IT (yes he does).
Did George Lucas "get" that having Darth Vader externalize his struggle with a melodramatic, wailingly delivered "No-o-o-o-!" drained the subtlety and power from one of the few relatively nuanced moments in a largely caricature-ish film? Perhaps he did, and this was a way to bring the original trilogy further in line with the prequels, which--by and large--featured stiffer characterizations (with exception to the likes of the very lively Palpatine/Sidious).
Which begs the question: if the same objective was in mind when Luke's scream was added to the gantry leap in the Special Edition of The Empire Strikes back...and this was another case of George Lucas "getting it" despite our own sense of the alteration being to the detriment of the film, why was it removed from the subsequent DVD version of 'Empire'? And, as I speculated in my kick-off post to this thread, could George Lucas so get it with regard to Vader's "No-o-o-o!" that we could also reasonably expect a re-think on that one in the next video release?
But the internet has no problem with detailing the Star Wars universe to death (small universe syndrome) by explaining away the backstory of every alien in the Cantina, is more interested in how many guns Boba Fett has on his armor, with how big the biggest spaceship is in its canon. About the horrible, horrible novels (A star destroyer burried underneath Imperial City... used as a prison... and then takes off... Thats a novel! Or how about the ZOMBIE STORMTROOPER novel?), the crappy tie-ins like The Force Unleashed 2 (and its dreadful novels) or the comic books (which are nothing more than simple continuity masturbation) or any number of things that the people that DEMAND THE ORIGINAL EDITS support lovingly despite the fact they're a far greater "whoring out" than anything Lucas could create in a wetdream.
You seem to have fairly comprehensive knowledge of a whole lot of Star Wars stuff I don't give a hoot about.
Heres a joke for you: Whats worse for Star Wars than George Lucas in an editing suite?
Answer: The fans.
Hey, man, don't knock fans in an editing suite... It can get pretty stuffy in there!
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Did George Lucas "get" that having Darth Vader externalize his struggle with a melodramatic, wailingly delivered "No-o-o-o-!" drained the subtlety and power from one of the few relatively nuanced moments in a largely caricature-ish film? Perhaps he did, and this was a way to bring the original trilogy further in line with the prequels, which--by and large--featured stiffer characterizations (with exception to the likes of the very lively Palpatine/Sidious).
That was my first impression. He's continually trying to justify those prequels at every given opportunity in the better-regarded original trilogy.
By using the same laughable "No-o-o-o-!" from the Frankenstein scene in Episode III, he likens the older Vader's despair at seeing his son tortured to the younger Vader's regret at having strangled his pregnant wife for no good reason.
We're meant to remember that it's really Hayden Christiansen inside the Vader costume, that he's a lousy actor, and that he has no more eyebrows. This helps make the six-film saga a more unified whole, and more uniformly crappy.
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