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 Posted:   Sep 5, 2013 - 4:32 PM   
 By:   mastadge   (Member)

I don't understand how someone can state they enjoyed the initial 3-4 seasons and then declare that it "sucks"

Why do you not understand this? When you are reading a great book and then the final act is awful, it's fair to declare that the book is not good. When you are enjoying a movie and then it goes off the rails, it's not a successful movie. Imagine you're eating a meal, you enjoy the appetizer and the soup, and then the entree is nasty: is this a good meal? When you're watching a TV show in which every episode is self-contained, that's one thing, but when the show purports to tell a complete story with an ending, and that ending does not live up to the show's promise, then the show has failed for any viewer who feels that way.

 
 Posted:   Sep 5, 2013 - 4:40 PM   
 By:   The REAL BJBien   (Member)

I don't understand how someone can state they enjoyed the initial 3-4 seasons and then declare that it "sucks". Really? You like over 50% of the series, but have decided all of it is terrible? Way to throw out the baby with the bathwater and Lord help your kid when he gets one poor grade in school amidst many stellar grades. Guess you'll tell them they suck too.

Yes!

How on earth is this even a valid argument? How many books or movies are ruined by a horrible ending? Of course it does!

I can think of dozen of films that were really great and then derailed either by a finale or or even worse 20 mins where everything is just derailed.

Even some of my favorite scores like say WATER FOR ELEPHANTS I refuse to buy because of the gapless presentation of it fading in and out to source music or albums that have dialogue over the film score ruin the presentation and again, I along with others just won't own.

This isn't unheard of.

LOST was gripping for the first three seasons but even as season 3 ended a lot of people where wondering "how long are they going to stretch this out?" so much so the creators announced which season was going to be last AHEAD of time just to make sure people were not going to lose faith or tune out a la THE X-FILES.

Personally the flash forward was the last GREAT moment in the series and its the moment where my expectations were probably raised too high.

 
 Posted:   Sep 5, 2013 - 4:43 PM   
 By:   Tom Servo   (Member)

I don't understand how someone can state they enjoyed the initial 3-4 seasons and then declare that it "sucks"

Why do you not understand this? When you are reading a great book and then the final act is awful, it's fair to declare that the book is not good. When you are enjoying a movie and then it goes off the rails, it's not a successful movie. Imagine you're eating a meal, you enjoy the appetizer and the soup, and then the entree is nasty: is this a good meal? When you're watching a TV show in which every episode is self-contained, that's one thing, but when the show purports to tell a complete story with an ending, and that ending does not live up to the show's promise, then the show has failed for any viewer who feels that way.


I don't agree with this line of critique, as it completely dismisses any aspect that did succeed. It could be a specific performance, direction, production design or score, but I believe that you can praise certain portions of a book, movie or series, even if you didn't like the ending. Everyone bags on Orson Welles' THE MAGNIFICENT AMBERSONS for its ending, but I would never describe it as a waste of celluloid or that it "sucked" because there are aspects of that production that are worthy of praise. Same goes for "Lost".

In terms of meals, plenty of times I have stated afterwards that I liked the appetizer, soup or salad more than the entree, but I never declared the entire meal bad, just not 100% stellar. I really believe in a more nuanced form of critique, one that requires more thoughtfulness and not just dismisses everything from top to bottom as "it sucks".

 
 Posted:   Sep 5, 2013 - 4:48 PM   
 By:   mastadge   (Member)

Of course you can find a thing problematic and still enjoy it or parts of it. That's exactly what people are saying when they say they liked some seasons but dislike the thing as a whole because its ending doesn't work for them. That's not dismissing the whole thing, but it is acknowledging that a poor ending can really ruin the whole experience for people. A weak middle can be overcome, but leaving a bad taste in someone's mouth at the end? Not good.

 
 Posted:   Sep 5, 2013 - 8:13 PM   
 By:   Tom Servo   (Member)

What I always find interesting is how two people can watch the exact same program and one person perceives it as unsuccessful and for the other it works like gangbusters. It's all a matter of subjectivity and personal perception. For me, "Lost" succeeded and to someone else it failed, but the program is exactly the same in both cases, so I will never understand people who deliver some sort of final judgment on art & entertainment, like it's a courtroom sentencing. We can't all be the best audience for all the same pieces of entertainment, the entertainment is what it is, the difference is what each of us are bringing to it when we watch it.

 
 Posted:   Sep 6, 2013 - 6:35 AM   
 By:   mstrox   (Member)

The Cabin

The Statues


It's been a long time (since the finale aired) so forgive me if I'm mistaken...

I think the cabin is basically resolved with the introduction of Jacob and the Man in Black, right? There are these two ethereal beings that have bobbed about the island for centuries - what's to say that they can't also manifest ethereal structures when needed, etc?

I don't think the statue was ever really a mystery - it was more a reveal that civilizations have lived on the islands for a long, long time, and who built the statue was no more a mystery than, say, who planted the tree where the cockpit landed.

I remember podcasts with Lindelof and Cuse when LOST was still airing, and interviews after LOST ended, that fans were making huge theories and mysteries out of things that weren't intended to be mysteries at all. Some things aren't mysteries, and are just things.

The Walt thing is the only "mystery" that I felt was truly abandoned, which makes sense since very little time passes on the island but that kid was hitting puberty and getting too old to be little ten-year-old Walt. The kid had to go. From what I hear, that is somewhat resolved in the epilogue from the DVD (I haven't seen it and I know you don't think it counts, but it is apparently resolved in some respect).

My spouse and I are currently rewatching this on Netflix (we're still mid-first-season) and loving it. I don't really rewatch movies or shows often, but I feel like LOST is a good one to rewatch, since you can see things that "make sense" that were mysterious previously. Whether those explanations were intended when written, or retcon, I don't really care. The show worked for me when I watched it all the way through, and I don't anticipate it NOT working for me this time.

I think it really depends what you are looking to get out of it - if you're in LOST for the mysteries, then you're probably bound to be somewhat disappointed. If you can make an emotional connection with the characters, and see the mysteries as situations that deepen our understandings of those characters, you'll probably love it like I do.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 6, 2013 - 7:12 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

They never explained the polar bears.

 
 Posted:   Sep 6, 2013 - 7:18 AM   
 By:   mstrox   (Member)

They never explained the polar bears.

The Dharma initiative was doing animal experiments, and they had polar bears. I believe it was explained in great detail in season 3 (when Jack, Kate, and Sawyer were captured by the Others) or season 5 (when we saw the Dharma initiative working in the 1970s)

 
 Posted:   Sep 6, 2013 - 7:45 AM   
 By:   Michael Scorefan   (Member)

With respect to many of Lost's mysteries here is an attempt by someone who loves and watches the show far more than I to answer them. http://www.cracked.com/blog/108-answers-to-losts-supposedly-unanswered-questions/ I doubt it will change anyone's opinion, but it is an interesting read nonetheless.

As for myself, I enjoyed the show, warts and all. In the scale of season finales, I would say it falls well behind my favorite series finale, Star Trek: The Next Generation, but fares better than some of my least favorite series finales, X-Files and Seinfeld. I will, however, be forever grateful for the show, as because of its success, I now have 10 cds of absolutely wonderful music I listen to regularly. Particularly the four discs that comprise music from Season 6. So say what you will about the show, I will be happily listening to the cds.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 6, 2013 - 7:57 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

They never explained the polar bears.

The Dharma initiative was doing animal experiments, and they had polar bears. I believe it was explained in great detail in season 3 (when Jack, Kate, and Sawyer were captured by the Others) or season 5 (when we saw the Dharma initiative working in the 1970s)


Well, that's the trouble with binge watching. It was probably in the last episode of the night after a second bottle was uncorked.

 
 Posted:   Sep 6, 2013 - 9:41 AM   
 By:   Ron Pulliam   (Member)

What I always find interesting is how two people can watch the exact same program and one person perceives it as unsuccessful and for the other it works like gangbusters. It's all a matter of subjectivity and personal perception. For me, "Lost" succeeded and to someone else it failed, but the program is exactly the same in both cases, so I will never understand people who deliver some sort of final judgment on art & entertainment, like it's a courtroom sentencing. We can't all be the best audience for all the same pieces of entertainment, the entertainment is what it is, the difference is what each of us are bringing to it when we watch it.

Ditto!

 
 Posted:   Sep 6, 2013 - 2:36 PM   
 By:   The REAL BJBien   (Member)

With respect to many of Lost's mysteries here is an attempt by someone who loves and watches the show far more than I to answer them. http://www.cracked.com/blog/108-answers-to-losts-supposedly-unanswered-questions/ I doubt it will change anyone's opinion, but it is an interesting read nonetheless.

What a fun read and honestly well made but what I dislike about it is this and only this...

Almost all those questions where moments that were created to have the audience talk. A lot of what people mistake for NIT PICKING are moments where myself and others had our minds rattled with "What is XXX about? Perhaps.." and then we started thinking within what was explained within the show.

I'm not someone saying the finale was a failure and then noting a list of things that weren't answer so much as there were a few key mysteries that drove seasons and honestly my expectations and curiosity. I was invested and thus was looking forward for some sort of resolutions to these things in the world.

I can say however I am glad I saw every episode and saw it through. I enjoyed in until it seemed the wheels were falling off and even if they did for me, I saw what the creators made of their show.

I just disliked it.

 
 Posted:   Sep 6, 2013 - 8:05 PM   
 By:   DeputyRiley   (Member)

"Lost" was pure magic for me, one of my all-time favorite TV series. I loved the cast, the characters, the unique island location for its entire duration, the storylines and ideas and its ambitious scope. This never changes for me, even as I have revisited the series on DVD. Its doesn't matter that its reach exceeded its grasp, it was always engaging for me personally, all the way up until the end. Characters' journeys and experiences resonated with me and plus, it was scored in a fashion distinctive for today's television.

Wonderful, Mr. Servo! It's almost as if I had written this paragraph myself, I agree with each and every word. Nice Robert Browning nod, too -- it really does fit the staggeringly wonderful ambition of the show. Pure magic indeed, only gets better with each series viewing, and characters' journeys and experiences resonated deeply with me as well, particularly the theme of redemption. This show meant (and means) so much to me and always will -- probably my favorite all-time TV drama. I enjoyed the entire ride.

 
 Posted:   Sep 6, 2013 - 11:32 PM   
 By:   Tom Servo   (Member)

"Lost" was pure magic for me, one of my all-time favorite TV series. I loved the cast, the characters, the unique island location for its entire duration, the storylines and ideas and its ambitious scope. This never changes for me, even as I have revisited the series on DVD. Its doesn't matter that its reach exceeded its grasp, it was always engaging for me personally, all the way up until the end. Characters' journeys and experiences resonated with me and plus, it was scored in a fashion distinctive for today's television.

Wonderful, Mr. Servo! It's almost as if I had written this paragraph myself, I agree with each and every word. Nice Robert Browning nod, too -- it really does fit the staggeringly wonderful ambition of the show. Pure magic indeed, only gets better with each series viewing, and characters' journeys and experiences resonated deeply with me as well, particularly the theme of redemption. This show meant (and means) so much to me and always will -- probably my favorite all-time TV drama. I enjoyed the entire ride.


Thanks for the support, Deputy! smile

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 8, 2013 - 6:38 AM   
 By:   MikeP   (Member)

"Lost" was pure magic for me, one of my all-time favorite TV series. I loved the cast, the characters, the unique island location for its entire duration, the storylines and ideas and its ambitious scope. This never changes for me, even as I have revisited the series on DVD. Its doesn't matter that its reach exceeded its grasp, it was always engaging for me personally, all the way up until the end. Characters' journeys and experiences resonated with me and plus, it was scored in a fashion distinctive for today's television.

Wonderful, Mr. Servo! It's almost as if I had written this paragraph myself, I agree with each and every word. Nice Robert Browning nod, too -- it really does fit the staggeringly wonderful ambition of the show. Pure magic indeed, only gets better with each series viewing, and characters' journeys and experiences resonated deeply with me as well, particularly the theme of redemption. This show meant (and means) so much to me and always will -- probably my favorite all-time TV drama. I enjoyed the entire ride.


Thanks for the support, Deputy! smile



I loved the show with all its faults and successes. During the original airing, I gave up during season 2, finding the mystery heaped upon mystery to be just frustrating beyond belief - it felt like too many WTF moments just being tossed at us.

But we came back for season 3 and stayed...decided to give it another chance...and didn't regret it. Along the way the show did drop the ball here and there, but knocked it out of the park more often than not. A year or so back we watched it again on DVD and enjoyed it even more...and now I'm ready to re-watch it on BluRay but my girlfriend says she's not ready to go there again yet razz

The main thing - the characters kept me coming back for more. The OP said he wasn't engaged by the characters, well, fine. And that explains a lot, at least to me. I loved the characters, found them engaging and compelling, with the best TV ensemble cast I've seen. For all the mythology / mystery moments where the writing was kinda wobbly ... and hey there were a few big grin ... there were moments of genuine emotion that had me blinking back a tear.

Desmond and Penny's star crossed love affair... Hurley doing what he does best, taking care of people... even Ben had a lovely moment of humanity and frailty towards the end.

I loved it. Every minute. Warts and all.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 8, 2013 - 7:29 AM   
 By:   Rick15   (Member)


The main thing - the characters kept me coming back for more. I loved the characters, found them engaging and compelling, with the best TV ensemble cast I've seen. For all the mythology / mystery moments where the writing was kinda wobbly ... and hey there were a few big grin ... there were moments of genuine emotion that had me blinking back a tear.

....even Ben had a lovely moment of humanity and frailty towards the end.

I loved it. Every minute. Warts and all.


I agree

I can't remember which season it was but I know it was towards the end. Is this show old enough not to have to use spoilers?? I'll play it safe...

Ben was made to dig his own grave. As he was digging, someone (a female? - wow...it's so long since I've watched it) was taunting him (?) and he stopped digging and gave a heart wrenching monologue about how he had to watch his daughter die...all in the name of the Island.

That was one of many highlights of what I felt was an amazing TV series.

 
 Posted:   Sep 8, 2013 - 7:30 AM   
 By:   DeputyRiley   (Member)

even Ben had a lovely moment of humanity and frailty towards the end.

"I watched my daughter, Alex, die in front of me and it was my fault. I had a chance to save her, but I chose the island over her. All in the name of Jacob. I sacrificed everything for him. And he didn't even care. Yeah, I stabbed him. I was so angry, confused. I was terrified that I was about to lose the only thing that had ever mattered to me. But the thing that really mattered was already gone. I'm sorry that I killed Jacob. I am. And I do not expect you to forgive me, because I can never forgive myself."

"Then what do you want?"

"Just, let me leave."

"Where will you go?"

"To Locke."

"Why?"

"Because he's the only one that will have me."

(EDIT: Wow, super weird Rick15...we were literally posting at the same time and I was searching the net for the above dialogue that was the exact same moment of the series you were referring to. Crazy!!!)

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 9, 2013 - 7:39 AM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

"Lost" was pure magic for me, one of my all-time favorite TV series. I loved the cast, the characters, the unique island location for its entire duration, the storylines and ideas and its ambitious scope. This never changes for me, even as I have revisited the series on DVD. Its doesn't matter that its reach exceeded its grasp, it was always engaging for me personally, all the way up until the end. Characters' journeys and experiences resonated with me and plus, it was scored in a fashion distinctive for today's television.


It's posts like these that I really enjoy.
I completely get off on someone else's enthusiasm for something, even if I don't share the same opinion of the thing in question. Especially if it's articulate and from the heart like this post is.

 
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