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There will always be somebody out there who will be offended by something. We all are different which I guess makes the world go round. We can only try our best , which a lot of people have no interest in doing which only makes matters even worst. There is no answer to this thread, like 12 angry men-57-98-- we may never know but there is enough doubt to not make a finite answer.My diner with andre-82- great wise observations but no answers written in stone.
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Re: "There will always be somebody out there who will be offended by something."
Yes, there will always be somebody out there who will be offended by something, but I think we have to draw the line when it comes to violence against women, including, of course, rape, which apparently isn't a priority in our military where it seems to happen HOURLY, which is why they need to stop allowing commanding officers to decide whether or not they'll prosecute rapists -- if the offender is more valuable to the commander than the person violated, he (and, yes, it's usually a HE) lets it go with little more than a warning (if that!).
I see no humor in such things. Several years ago there was a very popular young star who was the host of "Saturday Night Live," and he had a long segment with this very limber (and strange) character regularly seen on the program. It ends up with the 2 of them in the back seat of a car, with the famous actor sitting with the helpless character sitting on his lap, and they are simulating anal rape, which went on and on and on, and I was horrified that they would think that that was funny. Perhaps I was over-reacting, but it just didn't seem at all funny to me, and the young SNL actor was quite hysterical. I wonder how many people were inspired to follow suit after watching that? Yes, there will always be somebody out there who will be offended by something, but this happens too often to make light of it, and to use it in comedy is bad taste and insensitive and, frankly, outrageous.
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I agree that, sometimes, the South Park jabs are a test for everyone's patience, or sense of humor - I vividly recall the "say shit on TV" episode, the biggest pile of crap episode, the every-priest-is-a-child-molester episode, the cartman-infects-kyle(?) with AIDS episode - and many more - especially one in which Cartman finds a method to take in food via the anus and crap it up through the mouth, which was really hard to take - but I think that the the British concept of humor is the one to follow. Namely, ANYTHING GOES - as long as the presentation makes clear it's a joke - at least a joke recognizable as such by a person of moderate intelligence and education. So, lepers, concentration camps, Catholics, Mormons - whatever - are fair game.
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Posted: |
Dec 12, 2013 - 1:01 PM
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By: |
Francis
(Member)
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To me it's irrelevant if anyone thinks those clips are funny or not, humor is the hardest genre of all to please everyone. The point I was making was that rape can be made fun of, so can the holocaust, so can 911 (we had a thread about that as well), so can any other event, topic, theme, person, group of people, institution, belief, ideology, word, taboo... you name it. And yes, that includes domestic violence.
Wether it's funny to you is something you have to find out for yourself, but what I often find with people who will claim something can't or shouldn't be funny is because they have a lack of imagination and their skin is not thick enough to deal with those topics. If that is the case, stick to comedy that doesn't go to those places, there's plenty of PC family friendly comedy.
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Posted: |
Dec 12, 2013 - 2:04 PM
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By: |
joan hue
(Member)
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Disco Stu, I think if you look at some of our earlier comments, you will note that a lot of us feel that domestic abuse (physical and mental) or violence is wrong against BOTH males and females. It is a given that little boys and men can be beaten and raped. Parents should not just teach their daughters about “stranger danger.” Boys should also be taught to beware of grooming behaviors and strangers.
Men can be physically abused by their girlfriends or wives, and they may not fight back because they were taught to never hit a woman. (DS, I guess you don’t have to worry about that as you said, “If a woman hits me, she’s gonna get as she gave.”) In my town, our women’s shelters are full which is a sad statement. I have heard that in some large cities, there are men’s shelters for abused males. Any abuse reported by men or women should be taken seriously and help should be given to any victims.
I have worked in the counseling arena, and I know how damaging mental, sexual, and physical abuse can be to either gender. Abused men and women may never trust again and may never be able to establish viable physical and mental relationships with the opposite sex, and this is so tragic.
However, there are a few arenas related to sexual and physical abuse that tend to be “female only” issues, and these issues should be recognized.
While boys, teens and men may suffer horribly from physical or sexual abuse, they do not have the added burden of possible pregnancy. Ten year old girls on up through menopausal women may end up pregnant from sexual abuse. That is an additional HORROR NOT perpetrated upon males. The females’ personal values, their parents and their culture may make them deliver their abusers’ babies. And in some cultures, if a female is raped before she marries, she may be shunned by her family because she has lost the “virginity mandate” of that culture. Is there a culture where there is a “virginity mandate” for males?
Physical size matters, and men are usually stronger. A male may be able to fight off another male attacker; it may not be true for women. My husband and I have never been violent towards each other. I know that if I did hit him (which I wouldn’t) with my fist, I could bruise him or maybe break his nose. He is much stronger and could break my jaw or give me a concussion. More and more women are carrying Tasers and pepper spray because they don’t have the physicality to protect themselves.
Disco, you said we should say, “God Bless the World.” Okay, I say that in my prayers, but I say, “God Bless Most Of The World, Not All Of It.” There are a few cultures that won’t get my blessings. As far as I know, there are no cultures that take a 12 or 13 year old male and cut and hack on his genitals so that he won’t be able to enjoy sex when he is married. In fact, too much hacking may render him impotent. However, we all know that there are still cultures that hack (sometimes without pain killers) on young females to ensure that they can be wives and have sex but NOT ever enjoy the sex act, and therefore will never stray outside of marriage. OMG, I hope we can someday stop this horrid abuse that is perpetrated upon females. Also, some cultures allow their men to have a wife or several wives and mistresses. Adultery for the men is sanctioned. On the other hand, if a woman is accused of adultery in some cultures, she gets to be STONED to death. I haven’t read about any husbands who are adulterers being stoned. I have no intention of ever blessing such cultures.
All abuse towards men and women needs to stop, and the “female only” issues also need to be addressed and halted. None of it is funny.
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Posted: |
Dec 12, 2013 - 5:58 PM
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By: |
Regie
(Member)
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A lot of what passes for 'funny' these days is, I'm afraid, more a reflection of the society and its lowest common denominator factor. I turned off long ago.
Regie, now I'm not sure why you posed the question in the first place.
At first I thought you worded it the way you did because you wanted to gather a lot of differing opinions before settling on one. Then later on it seemed as though you were justifying one that you already had--and a well-established one at that. So from that point on the tone of the thread changed for me.
Do I misunderstand?
I was commenting on the opinions of many posters here, some of whom think violence is funny - in fact, some think there are no taboos with comedy. I do have my own opinions, yes, and seeing offensive comedy is sure to bring these to the fore.
But a film like "A Fine Madness" on the face of it seems inoffensive until you study the domestic violence in it and ask yourself whether this film has stood the test of time in its comic values. I submit that it has not for many of the reasons discussed previously.
The WB cartoons of the 40's and 50's - Bugs Bunny, Roadrunner etc. These were 'self-regenerating' cartoon characters ("Fortunately I keep all my feathers numbered for just such an emergency" crowed Foghorn Leghorn after being blown up). But there wasn't the viciousness in these cartoons that is a feature of modern violent humour. And The Three Stooges offended some people as well. That was slapstick, pratfalls and nobody was seriously hurt. Humiliation perhaps, but that isn't the same as domestic violence.
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Posted: |
Dec 12, 2013 - 8:12 PM
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By: |
Regie
(Member)
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But a film like "A Fine Madness" on the face of it seems inoffensive until you study the domestic violence in it and ask yourself whether this film has stood the test of time in its comic values. I submit that it has not for many of the reasons discussed previously.
I'm careful to not look at things of yesteryear with today's sensibilities. That's all there is to it.
If you look at history with modern biases then the more zealous among us tend to use that as justification for revising history. At that point, history loses all its power to teach or enlighten.
I'm not sure whether hitting a woman with a quasi professional punch can "teach" or "enlighten" us about anything, except perhaps that domestic violence was and is still somehow 'sanctioned' as a form of social control. Yep, it would be in some middle eastern countries, as Joan suggested.
It's straight abuse, particularly when the woman in question (Woodward) loves Samson (Sean Connery) and accepts physical violence as part of the "package". She does her own amount of screaming and yelling in the film.
Shakespeare did much the same thing in "The Taming of The Shrew" - a play I find particularly galling, incidentally. I notice when Cole Porter wrote the musical version, "Kiss Me Kate" he wisely eliminated the violence of the Shakespearean play. He even had his Kate sing, "I Hate Men", as a kind of antidote.
"Of all the types I've read about,
Within our democracy,
I hate the most the athlete
With his manner bold and brassy;
He may have hair upon his chest,
But sister - so has Lassie!
Oh, I hate men".
(I don't, incidentally! Nor do I have a feminist agenda.)
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Posted: |
Dec 12, 2013 - 10:38 PM
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By: |
edwzoomom
(Member)
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To me it's irrelevant if anyone thinks those clips are funny or not, humor is the hardest genre of all to please everyone. The point I was making was that rape can be made fun of, so can the holocaust, so can 911 (we had a thread about that as well), so can any other event, topic, theme, person, group of people, institution, belief, ideology, word, taboo... you name it. And yes, that includes domestic violence.
Wether it's funny to you is something you have to find out for yourself, but what I often find with people who will claim something can't or shouldn't be funny is because they have a lack of imagination and their skin is not thick enough to deal with those topics. If that is the case, stick to comedy that doesn't go to those places, there's plenty of PC family friendly comedy.
I find no humor in a violent and degrading crime against women and sometimes men and it is because I lack imagination? I find nothing funny when I read that a woman, a child and sometimes a husband are brutally beaten and or murdered and it is because I have no imagination?
I attended a wake and funeral some 10 years ago. The deceased was a beautiful and cherished friend of mine whose husband beat her to death one bright and beautiful Saturday morning. Her lovely face was so bruised that the funeral director was barely able to make her look recognizable. Am I thin-skinned because the thought of what she went through rips my heart out to this day?
Beyond what I wrote above, I am speechless at this comment and perhaps it is better that way.
I avoided reading this thread again for several days and now I wish I hadn't. It is pointless.
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