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 Posted:   May 2, 2013 - 5:17 PM   
 By:   nuts_score   (Member)

I'm not referring to the actual fantastic movie by Ridley Scott and his crew but to Vangelis' album...



This has been a topic of interest for me. It always confuses me. I gather that in general the music is well regarded amongst a "population" (including music and cinema fans) but from my history on the internet using movie music message boards it seems a strong majority is displeased with Vangelis' 1994 album release. Granted, over a decade too late, but it's a fantastic album experience of music which the composer compiled for release and to my ears it's one of the most perfect listening experiences in the history of music (quote me here).

And I know I'm not crazy because this music is wildly popular and for many reasons. I was not born until after the release of the film but my whole life I've known of it because I've simply devoured movie knowledge like a drug since the early 90s. It always seemed like a topic to me and even now here I am bringing it up again! I actually bought the soundtrack before even seeing the film and not only would I repeatedly fall asleep to the album, but my best friend and I would listen to it religiously while playing with GI Joe and other action figures. And with my great appreciation of the film I've only grown closer and closer with the album over time.

So what say those who don't really dig the soundtrack album? Is it the belated feeling of it? The music presentation? The music itself? Would you like to hear the full score, chronologically if it were ever released?

 
 Posted:   May 2, 2013 - 5:25 PM   
 By:   The REAL BJBien   (Member)

i personally don't like...okay, fuck it, hate this album because it essentially recreates the entire film "experience" which some people like but i find utterly fucking annoying.

i can relive the film by watching the film. i want the score album to be the music in stand alone form

i have the same beef with gapless albums that have film dialogue or when everything bleeds in together with score and tracks of the film. ugh.

 
 Posted:   May 2, 2013 - 5:29 PM   
 By:   Warunsun   (Member)

I have the Blade Runner "Trilogy" release that includes the individual album you refer to and have listened to it perhaps twice.

I also have the Edgar Rothermich album: BLADE RUNNER: 30th ANNIVERSARY CELEBRATION (1500 EDITION).
http://www.screenarchives.com/title_detail.cfm/ID/21602/BLADE-RUNNER-30th-ANNIVERSARY-CELEBRATION-1500-EDITION/

I much prefer the newer presentation. While it is rerecorded it follows the music in the film nicely and avoids a few things like "random dialogue" that was present in the original album. I don't hate the Vangelis album version but I do like the Rothermich recording a lot more and listened to it many more times than the original.

 
 Posted:   May 2, 2013 - 5:50 PM   
 By:   nuts_score   (Member)

I had never heard of this Rothermich recording. I previewed it on Amazon and it sounds fantastic! When was this released? I would've loved to have this when I was a kid.

Thank you kindly for this bit of knowledge Warunsun!

 
 
 Posted:   May 2, 2013 - 5:57 PM   
 By:   franz_conrad   (Member)

Nuts, you have to get the new album. Both that one and the 1994 album are great listening experiences, although this one has the advantage of no dialogue and capturing the film experience well.

 
 Posted:   May 2, 2013 - 6:06 PM   
 By:   nuts_score   (Member)

BJBien, do you create a lot of playlists? I love doing this personally and I'll pepper some various favorite score selections. Often I'll forget that a track plays seamlessly into another and get really pissed when it occurs in my playlist.

Surprisingly, there are two Ridley Scott films which I think have tremendous scores that are completely butchered on the album releases: Hannibal and the second soundtrack which Gladiator received. Hannibal suffers from "gapless syndrome" and includes dialogue selections which are piss poor considering one of three reliable hands could've scribed them (Thomas Harris, David Mamet, or Steven Zaillian) completely ruining wonderful underscore with their banality. And the second Gladiator disc features other dialogue selections which completely undermine the music.

Yet with Blade Runner it's never been a problem. I consider the dialogue in the album brings expressiveness to the music. The opening with Deckard instructing his tele-screen to investigate a photo, Deckard and Rachel's conversation when first meeting at Tyrell Corp, the singing in "One More Kiss Dear" (a beautiful song, better than anything the Inkspots did), and especially Batty's final moments, lost in time. It honestly gives me goosebumps. I've got the trilogy album too, and simply love that second disc ("At Mr. Chew's" is a sonic trip). But boy I can do without the third disc of "new" music. It's just not very good.

 
 Posted:   May 2, 2013 - 6:41 PM   
 By:   Elmo Bernstein   (Member)

I don't hate it at all - it certainly is better than that crummy Off World b**t. And I love some of the new tracks like "Wait For Me" and especially "Rachel's Song". But I find the dialog unwelcome. Fortunately it doesn't ruin any of the really key moments, except "Tears In Rain" (but we eventually got a "clean" version of that track on the 3-disc set anyway).

The only thing I hate about the 1994 CD is it uses that silly American poster artwork.

 
 
 Posted:   May 3, 2013 - 1:53 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

I don't get it either, nuts, but it obviously has to do with the obsession to get every second of music from a film, in its exact film order -- which is sentiment I've never understood in the first place.

I'm a huge fan of BLADE RUNNER -- the film and the score in context on the one hand, but also the old Virgin soundtrack album on the other. OK, so I could be without the dialogue, but except for that, it's a wonderful experience that captures the sensation of something dystopian without really referring to the story of the film that much (which is also a plus for me).

I never got around to picking up the new soundtrack set, however, as I was afraid it would undermine the fluid experience of the old CD.

 
 Posted:   May 3, 2013 - 2:20 AM   
 By:   Dave Norris   (Member)

On initial release the film bore the legend 'Soundtrack on Polydor Records & Tapes' which of course for various reasons never happened.

I wonder if an album actually had been released at the time, would it have been a more 'coventional' soundtrack or the 'concept album' which finally saw the light of day?

 
 Posted:   May 3, 2013 - 5:28 AM   
 By:   soop.broth   (Member)

I don't get it either, nuts, but it obviously has to do with the obsession to get every second of music from a film, in its exact film order -- which is sentiment I've never understood in the first place.

No. No. No.
Stop pushing your tired agenda at every turn. Now allow me to drop some facts on the proceedings:


First of all, I adore the 1994 album. Not only does it capture the feel of the universe created in the film, but it also offers lots of new music not featured in the film (4 of the 11 tracks). I am extremely grateful for those tracks, as well as the extra tracks released on the 25th Anniversay package (disc 2). As an album it is masterfully assembled and a joy to listen to.

HOWEVER...

There is SO much fantastic music in the film that was not made available back in 1994. I'm not talking about little cues or edits between scenes, but large, complete pieces that are totally unique and not at all represented in the 1994 album. Some concrete examples:

- The Prologue: one of the most memorable pieces in the film. Not on the 1994 album or the 25th anniv.
- Deckard Meets Rachael: A beautiful piece. Not on the 1994 album or the 25th anniv.
- Rachael's Test: Later released on the 25th disc 2.
- Photo Analysis: Later released on the 25th disc 2.
- Mr. Chews: A lengthy atmospheric piece. Later released on the 25th disc 2.
- Pris Meets JF: Featuring the infamous "cat howl" and bells. Unreleased.
- Deckard's Dream: Short, but a very memorable passage. Absent from any release.
- Dr. Tyrell's Death: Pivotal choral piece in the film. Later released on the 25th disc 2 (truncated).
- Desolation Path (alt Love Theme): Magnificent piece. Released on 25th disc 2 without the atmospheric intro or the coda.
- The Duel: Later released on the 25th disc 2 (truncated).
- Morning At The Bradbury: One of the most beautiful passages in the film. Absent from any release.
- I Am The Business: Another fully formed piece from the film. Absent from any release.
- Rachael Sleeps: Later released on the 25th disc 2.
- various pieces from Taffey's Bar: The market, the bar, the dance. Great stuff, but less essential.

There are MANY other pieces... source music, edits, interludes, background textures, etc that are not on my list above.

I don't need the score to be complete and chronological and I don't mind the segues, but I do feel that most major passages and themes should be properly represented. Why? Because I enjoy listening to them! That being said, I still love the 1994 album and the 25th disc 2 for what they are. [The less said about 25th disc 3, the better]

 
 
 Posted:   May 3, 2013 - 6:21 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

That is exactly my point. If people could just see the 1994 album as its own separate entity, things would be much better. But the moment people start using the film as their frame-of-reference for what music should be on the album and in what order, this particular enjoyment goes out the window. Unfortunately.

This is hardly unique for BLADE RUNNER, but the C&C enthusiasts seem to be particularly 'passionate' in this case, as nuts points out, for whatever reason. Even after multiple soundtrack releases, the last of which was a friggin' 3CD set!

 
 Posted:   May 3, 2013 - 6:36 AM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)

That is exactly my point. If people could just see the 1994 album as its own separate entity, things would be much better. But the moment people start using the film as their frame-of-reference for what music should be on the album and in what order, this particular enjoyment goes out the window. Unfortunately.


Depends on how the music is presented in the movie, and for me the biggest mistake the album release made was to not include the main title (film version). I don't have anything against album presentations, as long as they don't leave out important cues. And praise album presentations all you want, that is one big flaw for an album such as this.

Now I don't 'hate' the album presentation, listened to it many times and took it for what it was, but I enjoy hearing the score in the film even more.


This is hardly unique for BLADE RUNNER, but the C&C enthusiasts seem to be particularly 'passionate' in this case, as nuts points out, for whatever reason. Even after multiple soundtrack releases, the last of which was a friggin' 3CD set!


A 3CD set that was disappointing because it offered little new... I think that frustrates fans who've been waiting a long time to hear that music outside of the movie.

 
 
 Posted:   May 3, 2013 - 6:45 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

A 3CD set that was disappointing because it offered little new... I think that frustrates fans who've been waiting a long time to hear that music outside of the movie.

I'm sure it does, but again....such things are not an issue if you don't use the film as a frame-of-referance for your soundtrack enjoyment all the time. Why not look at the positive side instead -- here you have three whole new CD's -- in addition to the previously released CD's -- that are all about BLADE RUNNER!! That's pretty impressive right there.

As for the main titles, the album already has it! True, it isn't exactly like the original, since it segues from Deckard's monologue to the wide-open synth strings, but still....it's there!

Except for the dialogue (which isn't that bad to begin with compared with other dialogue-filled soundtracks), I adore the way Vangelis re-conceptualized his music for this album. I don't really need anything else. The perfect 'dystopia' concept album!

 
 Posted:   May 3, 2013 - 6:51 AM   
 By:   Warlok   (Member)

I was one who was certainly disappointed with that release. Thats because it is not really a soundtrack album, as it claimed to be.

When I bought "Bladerunner", I was expecting to listen to a reasonable representation of the music from (drum roll) Bladerunner. Chronological would help. That release was not that at all. Therefore, you bought something other than the soundtrack. You bought more of a concept album.

 
 
 Posted:   May 3, 2013 - 6:52 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

I was one who was certainly disappointed with that release. Thats because it is not really a soundtrack album, as it claimed to be.

When I bought "Bladerunner", I was expecting to listen to a reasonable representation of the music from (drum roll) Bladerunner. Chronological would help. That release was not that at all. Therefore, you bought something other than the soundtrack. You bought more of a concept album.


Indeed you did. CONCEPT SOUNDTRACK ALBUMS FOR THE WIN!

 
 Posted:   May 3, 2013 - 6:53 AM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)


I'm sure it does, but again....such things are not an issue if you don't use the film as a frame-of-referance for your soundtrack enjoyment.


Well yes, but why would you want to do that? If you've seen the movie and are acquainted with the music as presented there, why settle for an album presentation that leaves a lot to be desired? And I can't judge the Blade Runner soundtrack without the film as frame-of-reference because I've seen the film. I won't pretend I haven't in order to enjoy the album more, that makes little sense to me.

I also don't believe people 'hate' the album presentation, and a possible C&C release IMO wouldn't exclude the listening pleasure from the album presentation and vice versa. Release all the concept albums you want, just release the film music as well please.

 
 
 Posted:   May 3, 2013 - 7:00 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)


I'm sure it does, but again....such things are not an issue if you don't use the film as a frame-of-referance for your soundtrack enjoyment.


Well yes, but why would you want to do that? If you've seen the movie and are acquainted with the music as presented there, why settle for an album presentation that leaves a lot to be desired? And I can't judge the Blade Runner soundtrack without the film as frame-of-reference because I've seen the film. I won't pretend I haven't in order to enjoy the album more, that makes little sense to me.

I also don't believe people 'hate' the album presentation, and a possible C&C release IMO wouldn't exclude the listening pleasure from the album presentation and vice versa.


Probably not. And I'm not saying that I would protest on the barricades if such a release would come. OK; I don't understand the fascination for C&C presentations -- and probably never will -- but it's a legitimate way to enjoy soundtracks that just happens to be very different from my own. Both types can usually co-exist peacefully.

All I'm saying is that with two official soundtracks (the original LP/CD, then the 1994 CD) and then a massive 3CD presentation in 2007, it should be possible to be a bit more positive. Very few other films have enjoyed such soundtrack proliferation, even if none of them may be EXACTLY the way C&C enthusiasts would wish.

Like nuts_score in the first post, I'm continually amazed by this basic lack of appreciation, and how VOCAL said fans are about their displeasure.

 
 Posted:   May 3, 2013 - 7:02 AM   
 By:   Warlok   (Member)

THOR!

You!

Me!

School parking lot!

5:00!


Be there...

(knife-sharpening voice)

 
 Posted:   May 3, 2013 - 7:08 AM   
 By:   bdm   (Member)

"When I bought "Blade Runner", I was expecting to listen to a reasonable representation of the music from (drum roll) Blade Runner. Chronological would help. That release was not that at all. Therefore, you bought something other than the soundtrack. You bought more of a concept album.

Indeed you did. CONCEPT SOUNDTRACK ALBUMS FOR THE WIN!"

Mighty Thor - you are missing the fact that some here, when they buy a "Soundtrack Album/CD" expect a soundtrack and not a "Concept Album." Had the V BR releases come with the "A Concept Album based on the Original Soundtrack" on their covers, then no one could complain (once they bought them of course) as they would have known what they were getting.

I also enjoy the re-recording as it is nice to hear the music without the dialogue. As for the 3 disc set, I don't mind the second disc, and have only listened to the third once.

IF V was to put out an actual "soundtrack" version, I would likely buy it. Another concept album - while something you and others here would look forward to - would have no interest to me, as I have enough BR concept already.

 
 
 Posted:   May 3, 2013 - 7:13 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Mighty Thor - you are missing the fact that some here, when they buy a "Soundtrack Album/CD" expect a soundtrack and not a "Concept Album." Had the V BR releases come with the "A Concept Album based on the Original Soundtrack" on their covers, then no one could complain (once they bought them of course) as they would have known what they were getting.

Back in the pre-C&C days, most soundtracks were exactly that by default, i.e. concept albums based on the original soundtrack. Most people knew that (that the composer and album producer had selected and re-arranged cues for a 'concept' feel). These days, however, the waters are getting muddier, even for big, commercial soundtracks.

 
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