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Posted: |
Jul 11, 2013 - 9:27 AM
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By: |
bdm
(Member)
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"But it has been announced. And its my money. And I'm allowed to complain as a paying customer. As much as Mr. Producer thinks we should just be grateful we get anything. Our money funds these releases and future releases."
Absolutely right, but it hasn't been released yet, so you haven't spend any money, so you are not a paying customer, just some guy bitching with no reason to (as of yet). If you want to bitch then why not buy it, listen to it and then comment pro or con or mixed; or - vote with your pocket book and - don't buy it.
I am not a producer, but I do think you should be grateful for the fact that 1) the producers do the hard work to get these scores out, and 2) put up with the bitching of "paying customers" who actually are not, as they haven't paid a cent, as the label isn't even taking orders on the product yet.
Once it's out and you've listened to the presentation, and looked at the packaging and liner notes, then bitch away to your heart's content if something isn't up to par in your opinion, as - as you state above - you are a paying customer, and are welcome to state your opinions here.
To do so now, before anything but the facts that a) the score is coming, b) it will be one disc, and c) a producer has taken the time to advise that you may want to keep you current disc if you want something closer to "everything," is certainly jumping the gun.
Again, Really?
Relax, wait for more info, and the disc itself - you may find that all the "concern" is/was unnecessary.
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Posted: |
Jul 11, 2013 - 9:42 AM
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By: |
SchiffyM
(Member)
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Ford has had this attitude many times in the past.
As I'm sure you know, Ford did not produce this CD. He did, ironically, produce the deluxe "Generations" CD, which had the format you prefer. And, if you'll recall, there were complaints then that people were "forced" to buy the second CD.
Perhaps I'm misremembering, but I don't recall Ford ever saying that we should be "grateful we get anything." He has -- yes, in a blunt way -- pointed to the realities of the business, and objected to unrealistic complaints.
Of course, you're allowed to complain all you want, and want what you want. But by that same token, others are allowed to suggest that you might want to chill.
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Posted: |
Jul 11, 2013 - 9:50 AM
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By: |
jwb
(Member)
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As I'm sure you know, Ford did not produce this CD. He did, ironically, produce the deluxe "Generations" CD, which had the format you prefer. And, if you'll recall, there were complaints then that people were "forced" to buy the second CD.
I only have issues with adding the album presentation for sake of just adding it. If it offers up true alternates and differences (not just edits), then I believe it is justifiable to include it, and even more if it has been re-mastered and improved in sound.
Perhaps I'm misremembering, but I don't recall Ford ever saying that we should be "grateful we get anything." He has -- yes, in a blunt way -- pointed to the realities of the business, and objected to unrealistic complaints.
Not in here, but yes he has many times in the past.
Absolutely right, but it hasn't been released yet, so you haven't spend any money, so you are not a paying customer, just some guy bitching with no reason to (as of yet). If you want to bitch then why not buy it, listen to it and then comment pro or con or mixed
Once it's out and you've listened to the presentation, and looked at the packaging and liner notes, then bitch away to your heart's content if something isn't up to par in your opinion, as - as you state above - you are a paying customer, and are welcome to state your opinions here.
But I already told you I am, regardless, spending my money. So IMHO, they already technically have it. But I can still be unhappy about it. It doesn't matter if I have the disc yet or not. I already know what to expect. I have to keep my old inferior sounding album of Insurrection. Lukas said so. Because alternates exist on there that have not been included due to a business call, we already know the facts.
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Like others I'm slightly annoyed at the inconsistency, and definitely would prefer to have any actual alternate *performances* from the album in remastered form. That said, I completely understand this decision from a business aspect and how it really wouldn't make sense for them to spend the extra money when they're sitting on a ton of old stock for the original album.
At least the original Insurrection album doesn't sound nearly as bad as the original Generations album, so I for one am glad that if we were going to get just ONE original album remaster out of all three GNP-owned feature scores, it was Generations, which was most in need of it.
Yavar
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Like others I'm slightly annoyed at the inconsistency, and definitely would prefer to have any actual alternate *performances* from the album in remastered form. That said, I completely understand this decision from a business aspect and how it really wouldn't make sense for them to spend the extra money when they're sitting on a ton of old stock for the original album.
Yea, if GNP had so much excess stock, they should have ran a sale a year or 2 ago selling the OST for a discounted price to get rid of that stock. Perhaps put it on sale, or offered it for a discounted price if purchased with First Contact, Generations, or BOBW, etc....
Now, that stock will never move.
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Absolutely right, but it hasn't been released yet, so you haven't spend any money, so you are not a paying customer, just some guy bitching with no reason to (as of yet). If you want to bitch then why not buy it, listen to it and then comment pro or con or mixed; or - vote with your pocket book and - don't buy it.
You know, it's bitching, helpful or not, polite or not, informed or not, before a release, that helps companies like Apple refine their product or adjust it. There was a company recently (I think it was, coincidently, Apple) that has some cellphone application layout people hated and were complaining about. I suspect next release, that problem will be fixed.
I am not a producer, but I do think you should be grateful for the fact that 1) the producers do the hard work to get these scores out, and 2) put up with the bitching of "paying customers" who actually are not, as they haven't paid a cent, as the label isn't even taking orders on the product yet.
You know, while you can't test drive a CD, you can test drive a car, and that customer hasnt' paid for it yet, but they might. And if we flip the coin over on the bitching person whom hasn't paid for it yet coin, we have on the other side the label, who either gets the money or they don't, regardless of the bitching; no submitted order says: "Hey, I was so-and-so that pissed and moaned, but I bought it anyway", so they dont' really know unless they're really, really paying attention to each bitch at various score boards, which I suspect they have a life and don't.
Once it's out and you've listened to the presentation, and looked at the packaging and liner notes, then bitch away to your heart's content if something isn't up to par in your opinion, as - as you state above - you are a paying customer, and are welcome to state your opinions here.
You've created an arguement which appears to be a paradox. On the one hand you are saying a person shouldn't bitch unless they are buying it, then you are saying they can bitch if they do buy it. What was the point then? Isn't a bitch a bitch? Isn't a paying customer whether before or after the bitch, still a paying customer?
To do so now, before anything but the facts that a) the score is coming, b) it will be one disc, and c) a producer has taken the time to advise that you may want to keep you current disc if you want something closer to "everything," is certainly jumping the gun.
GNP already confirmed it's coming. Lukas already confirmed it's a one CD program. Lukas has also already chimed in a little on the presentation. This complaint would have made some sense (though not much) had this been made before those reveals, but after, what's the point?
Again, Really?
Why not? We all have a reputation as whiney, pissing & moaning, bitching, never-satisfied, ungrateful jackwagon's. Why stop now. ;-)
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Posted: |
Jul 11, 2013 - 10:53 AM
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By: |
jwb
(Member)
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You know, it's bitching, helpful or not, polite or not, informed or not, before a release, that helps companies like Apple refine their product or adjust it.
And you know what, I take issue with calling it bitching. That is a very immature way to look at it. I have only been offering constructive criticism in how I, IMHO think they could improve this release.
Yea, if GNP had so much excess stock, they should have ran a sale a year or 2 ago selling the OST for a discounted price to get rid of that stock. Perhaps put it on sale, or offered it for a discounted price if purchased with First Contact, Generations, or BOBW, etc....
Now, that stock will never move.
Sure, they could do a sale on Insurrection. Even if they dropped the price down from $13 to say $8. If it meant charging people an extra $5-$10 for that remastered second disc, what was the point? But clearly, they don't want to accept a loss on it, hence why they did this. I'm sorry they have so much of the original Insurrection, but as you said its not like they tried that we could see to move it out when they had the chance.
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I didn't say you were bitching, I was just using his choice of words in critisizing your's.
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Posted: |
Jul 11, 2013 - 11:15 AM
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By: |
Spymaster
(Member)
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Crescendo still has on hand lots of stock of the original Insurrection CD whereas for Generations they did not. This is one of those practical things that makes sense so I hope people support the decision, as I do.
Lukas
Right, so basically this decision was made because they have plenty of the original Insurrection available. Sorry, I have a huge amount of respect for you Lukas, but that might have been the best business call, but as a fan service it sucks.
Interesting...
Okay, firstly, thanks to Lukas for his refreshingly honest answer.
But... I'm very, very disappointed that the decision not to include a remastered edition of the original album - which includes several specific trims AND a whole alternate cue AND I suspect a few other tweaks AND sounds pretty darned poor by today's standards - wasn't included simply because Crescendo has stock left over.
Sure, Insurrection sounds nowhere near as bad as Generations did, and I'm sure the album version of "The Healing Process" will be included here with (hopefully!) better sound as an extra... but... well...
I'll support the release completely, but I can't say I support that particular decision, no.
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Posted: |
Jul 11, 2013 - 11:23 AM
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By: |
Spymaster
(Member)
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Absolutely right, but it hasn't been released yet, so you haven't spend any money, so you are not a paying customer, just some guy bitching with no reason to (as of yet). If you want to bitch then why not buy it, listen to it and then comment pro or con or mixed; or - vote with your pocket book and - don't buy it.
Once it's out and you've listened to the presentation, and looked at the packaging and liner notes, then bitch away to your heart's content if something isn't up to par in your opinion, as - as you state above - you are a paying customer, and are welcome to state your opinions here.
You know what though, in many respects it's far better for a consumer to express their views before something comes out - because it can influence the quality of the final product. There are many examples, particularly in the world of DVDs/BDs where negative reaction to screen shots, or review copies, have caused the distributor to pull the title at the last minute and fix it without having to do an expensive recall.
A recent example is on the forthcoming release of ST:TNG season 4. There was an music syncing glitch which, I believe, was caught just in time (following BITCHING (GASP!!) about the Best Of Both Worlds standalone disc) and is now apparently fixed on the season set.
Granted, this Insurrection thing isn't a "glitch" or a "mistake" - I'm just pointing out that feedback pre-release is every bit as relevant as post-release.
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