Film Score Monthly
FSM HOME MESSAGE BOARD FSM CDs FSM ONLINE RESOURCES FUN STUFF ABOUT US  SEARCH FSM   
Search Terms: 
Search Within:   search tips 
You must log in or register to post.
  Go to page:    
 
 Posted:   Nov 5, 2012 - 12:50 AM   
 By:   pp312   (Member)

(b) Rozsa himself never refers to this film in interviews when asked re his favourite scores...

Not quite true. I distinctly remember reading Rozsa's reply to a question about what score he'd like to see recorded: "Well, Sodom and Gomorrah has some exciting music." Does anyone else recall this? I know I didn't dream it.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 5, 2012 - 12:52 AM   
 By:   pp312   (Member)

What is already of much of Sodom has too many source cues (dances, chats etc) and not enough dramatic scoreing


Wrong, Joe, and for self-evident reasons. There's a heap of dramatic scoring in S & G and it's all of high quality. Rozsa once said that the quality of the film was nothing to do with him; his job was to enjoy himself, by which I'm sure he meant to write as good a score as possible.

BTW, what are "chats"?

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 5, 2012 - 6:19 AM   
 By:   TerraEpon   (Member)

I like the dance music in S&G...

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 5, 2012 - 7:14 AM   
 By:   algonrei   (Member)

Duel in the Sun - That's the one epic that needs it!

Anyway....back to QUO VADIS

Copies now being received throughout UK and Europe...hopefully North America copies not delayed too long by forces of nature.....



Have absolutely no proof but I believe that Duel in the Sun is on your radar for the next Prometheus recording. I do hope you go with your favs for Tadlow regarding Rozsa as either Jungle Book or my favorite Thief of Baghdad would make fine recordings.


Yes, DUEL has been considered....and had long talks with Olivia Tiomkin about it....but nothing definite .... as yet. Got some other CDs to record for Prometheus and Tadlow first....


Rio Bravo!!! It's time for it....

And after listening once again True Grit... what about The Sons of Katie Elder??

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 5, 2012 - 7:16 AM   
 By:   algonrei   (Member)

About time we had a re-recording of the splendid "The Black Shield of Falworth"

That one doesn't need a re-recording as the original exists... Just waiting for someone to release it

 
 Posted:   Nov 5, 2012 - 9:49 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

I don't know about other people, and no disrespect meant to Nic Raine who does fine work, but I'd love it if James himself conducted another Bernstein score -- his True Grit is FLAWLESS! He perfectly captures Bernstein's idiom, and I'm sure there are some other great Bernstein scores he could tackle that don't survive, at least in complete form.

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 7, 2012 - 12:53 AM   
 By:   JamesFitz   (Member)

I don't know about other people, and no disrespect meant to Nic Raine who does fine work, but I'd love it if James himself conducted another Bernstein score -- his True Grit is FLAWLESS! He perfectly captures Bernstein's idiom, and I'm sure there are some other great Bernstein scores he could tackle that don't survive, at least in complete form.

Yavar


I'd much rather leave conducting to those who are actually good at it....although I did wave my arms around a bit on upcoming RED PONY Concert Suite Recording....

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 7, 2012 - 3:23 AM   
 By:   Michal Turkowski   (Member)

"Quo Vadis" is awesome, is fantastic is AMAZING !

Thanks James, this is truly incredible!

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 7, 2012 - 3:36 PM   
 By:   pp312   (Member)

Just had a listen and I'm very impressed. Frankly, it reinforces my observation above about Rozsa sanitising the scores for public consumption. This rendering bears little resemblance to the Decca recording until toward the end; the rest is so much more dramatic and exciting. Hard to believe in a way that the composer could have reduced such a colourful, complex, intricate score down to such bare essentials. Not that I'm criticising Rozsa; as with all his re-recordings it was intended for a wider public and no doubt his decisions were sound (though the recording wasn't ultimately successful, so I guess he may as well have gone ahead and recorded anything). Such a pity that for all this time the true glory of the score has gone without decent representation (except of course to those who can stomach crackley old 1951 mono).

I wasn't sure what to expect. I've seen the film a couple of times without it making any great impression; the music tended to wash over me as well. I knew it was poorly dubbed so there was much more to hear, but this seems more like the score to a film that might have been rather than the one that is. It isn't of course as emotionally committed as something like Ben-Hur--the film doesn't allow that--but it still reveals just as much blood and sweat--and of course musical intregrity.

So, now that James has recorded the first of Rozsa's five Roadshow historical epics, I wonder if I could persuade him to record the last. smile

 
 Posted:   Nov 7, 2012 - 4:01 PM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)


I'd much rather leave conducting to those who are actually good at it....although I did wave my arms around a bit on upcoming RED PONY Concert Suite Recording....


I guess you've got a skill for conducting westerns, then. Honestly you're far too modest, as I'm sure fans here of the True Grit recording will tell you. I think Nic Raine or even William Stromberg would be hard-pressed to top what you did in terms of capturing Bernstein. Plus, since Mr. Bernstein's tragic passing, you're shockingly the only one to tackle a new recording of one of his scores!

Can't wait to see what recording The Red Pony suite will be filling out...

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 8, 2012 - 3:48 AM   
 By:   mstanwick856   (Member)

Just had a listen and I'm very impressed. Frankly, it reinforces my observation above about Rozsa sanitising the scores for public consumption. This rendering bears little resemblance to the Decca recording until toward the end; the rest is so much more dramatic and exciting. Hard to believe in a way that the composer could have reduced such a colourful, complex, intricate score down to such bare essentials. Not that I'm criticising Rozsa; as with all his re-recordings it was intended for a wider public and no doubt his decisions were sound (though the recording wasn't ultimately successful, so I guess he may as well have gone ahead and recorded anything). Such a pity that for all this time the true glory of the score has gone without decent representation (except of course to those who can stomach crackley old 1951 mono).

I wasn't sure what to expect. I've seen the film a couple of times without it making any great impression; the music tended to wash over me as well. I knew it was poorly dubbed so there was much more to hear, but this seems more like the score to a film that might have been rather than the one that is. It isn't of course as emotionally committed as something like Ben-Hur--the film doesn't allow that--but it still reveals just as much blood and sweat--and of course musical intregrity.

So, now that James has recorded the first of Rozsa's five Roadshow historical epics, I wonder if I could persuade him to record the last. smile


I agree with your analysis above.

What are his "5 Roadshow historical epics? I can guess, but I would like your confirmation.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 8, 2012 - 5:23 AM   
 By:   pp312   (Member)


What are his "5 Roadshow historical epics? I can guess, but I would like your confirmation.


Hi. I'm of course using the term "Roadshow" in the sense of exclusive first-run movies of a length requiring Intermission (as QV? originally had and as I saw it on re-release in the early 60s). So the list would be:

Quo Vadis
Ben-Hur
King of Kings
El Cid
Sodom & Gomorrah

Please, other people, don't chime in and say that Ivanhoe or something is an historical epic. I think we can all agree what "Roadshow" meant, at least we oldies can, and only a few films were thus released. S & G probably didn't deserve such deluxe treatment, but it got it nonetheless, at least here in Australia (ran for 3 months, as I recall, as opposed to B-H's 15 and El Cid's 11).

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 8, 2012 - 6:04 AM   
 By:   Doug Raynes   (Member)


What are his "5 Roadshow historical epics? I can guess, but I would like your confirmation.


Hi. I'm of course using the term "Roadshow" in the sense of exclusive first-run movies of a length requiring Intermission (as QV? originally had and as I saw it on re-release in the early 60s). So the list would be:

Quo Vadis
Ben-Hur
King of Kings
El Cid
Sodom & Gomorrah

Please, other people, don't chime in and say that Ivanhoe or something is an historical epic. I think we can all agree what "Roadshow" meant, at least we oldies can, and only a few films were thus released. S & G probably didn't deserve such deluxe treatment, but it got it nonetheless, at least here in Australia (ran for 3 months, as I recall, as opposed to B-H's 15 and El Cid's 11).


If SODOM AND GOMORRAH was roadshown in Australia it must have been one of the few countries where it was shown that way. The film wasn't made in 70mm or widescreen (ie 2.35:1) or (as far as I know) stereo sound, as roadshow films usually were. I saw it when it opened in London and it received a standard presentation, although it may still have had the Overture, Entr'acte and Exit Music (I don't remember for sure).

Gordon Gray, who produced the Polydor "Rozsa Conducts Rozsa" albums had an interesting story about the Australian showing of the film, which is on the Miklos Rozsa Society website, as below:

When the first print of SODOM AND GOMORRAH arrived in this country, it was quickly sent to the censors for viewing and classification and then rushed into a city release. I went to see the film in its first week—a ticket sold merely because printed among the credits on the posters outside were the words MUSIC BY MIKLÓS RÓZSA (as if I didn't know that already) . A good presentation took place, the overture was played and the first half was enjoyed. After intermission I listened to the intermezzo playing, it seemed unusually long. Toward the finish it suddenly occurred to me that the music had taken on an 'epilogue' type of arrangement, as if the projectionist had spliced the epilogue onto the end of the intermezzo.

When the second half of the film finished there was no epilogue. Several weeks later I received a copy of the RCA soundtrack record and found that my suspicions had been correct, the two pieces must have been joined together. I happened to be working for the company who were distributing the film throughout Australia, and weeks later when the balance of the prints arrived, I quickly began checking out the reels to find out if the music was in the correct order. I discovered that there was an extra can of film for each print; they had recorded all three items of music on the one reel and marked each one accordingly; I made sure that each print was made up in the correct manner.

I returned to the City Theatre and requested a word with the projectionist. I explained everything to him, and he said he thought the intermezzo and epilogue should have been separate items, but that was the way he received the print. In reply to my request that he make a correction, he said, "I'm sorry, but I cannot do this because Head Office viewed this print first and made up my running times. If I alter it now the intermission will be shorter and somebody will want to know why I altered their running times!" So SODOM AND GOMORRAH had its complete city season in Sydney in that manner.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 8, 2012 - 6:13 AM   
 By:   joec   (Member)


What are his "5 Roadshow historical epics? I can guess, but I would like your confirmation.


Hi. I'm of course using the term "Roadshow" in the sense of exclusive first-run movies of a length requiring Intermission (as QV? originally had and as I saw it on re-release in the early 60s). So the list would be:

Quo Vadis
Ben-Hur
King of Kings
El Cid
Sodom & Gomorrah

Please, other people, don't chime in and say that Ivanhoe or something is an historical epic. I think we can all agree what "Roadshow" meant, at least we oldies can, and only a few films were thus released. S & G probably didn't deserve such deluxe treatment, but it got it nonetheless, at least here in Australia (ran for 3 months, as I recall, as opposed to B-H's 15 and El Cid's 11).


Sodom & Gomorrah may have been planned as a roadshow presentation, but it was not shown that way in NYC. In fact it opened in multiple locations for only a few weeks. There is a point in the film where the intermission should have been placed. But apprently the Overture Intermission and exit music were removed for USA distribution. Surprisinely it was not a wide screen film. It would be great to see this film, whatever its merits, as it was initially intended.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 8, 2012 - 6:20 AM   
 By:   pp312   (Member)

Interesting info, Doug, but I fear Brits were short-changed. S & G was shown Roadshow here; it was widescreen and it was in stereo. If I'm wrong about those things, then I must have viewed it in a parallel universe.

It's interesting that Oz often saw what the rest of the world didn't. For instance we got the version of El Cid that had the pre-Intermission dream scene that it seemed wasn't in many prints. We got the very rare "alternate" Spartacus Intermission music, but only on some prints. Oh, lots of weird things happened down under in those days, and it seems a widescreen, stereo S & G was one of them. smile

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 8, 2012 - 6:28 AM   
 By:   Joe Caps   (Member)

doug Raynes. were your prints stereo?
When I worked at Pioneer laserdisc, I tried to track down stereo master tracks for this film, but no go. no one had them.

I wold love to see this film on blu ray with roadshow elements and stereo.
The film was never widescreen, but 1:85.

What alternate Intermission music was there for Spartacus. This is news to me.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 8, 2012 - 6:31 AM   
 By:   pp312   (Member)

Sodom & Gomorrah may have been planned as a roadshow presentation, but it was not shown that way in NYC. In fact it opened in multiple locations for only a few weeks. There is a point in the film where the intermission should have been placed. But apprently the Overture Intermission and exit music were removed for USA distribution. Surprisinely it was not a wide screen film. It would be great to see this film, whatever its merits, as it was initially intended.

Sorry, but it was definitely widescreen in OZ. I have no doubt whatsoever on that point. As for the Intermission, it took place just after the Battle by the Dam. Lot announces that the Hebrews will remain near Sodom. Someone asks how they will make a living, and Lot indicates a huge pile of salt left from the breaking of the dam. There's a rather impressive shot of the speakers taken from the top of the salt pile at this point, and a slow fadeout accompanied by a typical Rozsa Intermission climax.

Years later the film showed on Oz TV in truncated form as "The Last Days of Sodom And Gomorrah." It was actually a lot better (or should I say, a Lot better?), as most of the silly "Italianisms" had been removed.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 8, 2012 - 6:35 AM   
 By:   pp312   (Member)


I wold love to see this film on blu ray with roadshow elements and stereo.
The film was never widescreen, but 1:85.

What alternate Intermission music was there for Spartacus. This is news to me.


Seems we may have to define our terms. !:85, almost two to one, would look like widescreen to me. Even so, I seem to recall a broader image than that.

There IS an alternate Spartacus Intermezzo, but don't ask me the details right now. It's 1:35am here.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 8, 2012 - 7:01 AM   
 By:   Doug Raynes   (Member)

doug Raynes. were your prints stereo?
When I worked at Pioneer laserdisc, I tried to track down stereo master tracks for this film, but no go. no one had them.

I wold love to see this film on blu ray with roadshow elements and stereo.
The film was never widescreen, but 1:85.


The film was mono where I saw it but I don't know if there were any stereo showings. I have the UK cinema exhibitors brochure giving advice on presentation and publicity which states the running time as;

"153 minutes plus intermission and music. Play-in music: 5 minutes. Intermission music 5 minutes. Play-out music 2 minutes. Certificate 'X'. A Titanus Production distributed by the Rank Organisation, features an original music score, composed and conducted by Hollywood's top composer, Miklos Rozsa."

So the film obviously had the Overture, Intermission etc included on all general release prints.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 8, 2012 - 7:10 AM   
 By:   Doug Raynes   (Member)


I wold love to see this film on blu ray with roadshow elements and stereo.
The film was never widescreen, but 1:85.

What alternate Intermission music was there for Spartacus. This is news to me.


Seems we may have to define our terms. !:85, almost two to one, would look like widescreen to me. Even so, I seem to recall a broader image than that.


Paul, in the early 1960s 1.85:1 was not considered widescreen because that had been the standard aspect ratio for many years. Most cinemas had stopped showing films in 1.33:1 by the mid '50s and I don't think Australia was that much behind the times - or maybe it was smile. In those days widescreen meant a CinemaScope size picture to most people at 2.35:1 and SODOM AND GOMORRAH was definitely not filmed with widescreen lenses. I think the advent of DVD confused terms.

 
You must log in or register to post.
  Go to page:    
© 2014 Film Score Monthly. All Rights Reserved.