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But why would James do only suites of Black Patch/Face of a Fugitive? Why wouldn't he do the full scores, especially if written materials survive and it doesn't all have to be reconstructed by ear from the films?
Yavar
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IMHO most in need of a re-recording are:
Face of a Fugitive
Black Patch
Shamus
Pursuit
Since Face/Black are traditional orchestral scores these two perhaps could be done easily.
Also I thought I'd mention that James has said on more than one occasion that synth elements (unless they're extremely complicated) are not a problem for doing a new recording of things. They can be recreated, as he did so masterfully on The Salamander. But I'm with you in wanting Goldsmith's early two western film scores released before the cool "mod" pair (though I want those too).
Yavar
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It certainly will not be THE CHAIRMAN as Fox Films would not give permission for us to access the Goldsmith sketches that they hold in their archive. Both Luc and myself would love to record it.
The Goldsmith 2CD set will be for Tadlow Music and not Prometheus and will contain one complete score plus 2 extended suites from 2 other films...
Actually thinking about it there will be suites from 3 films plus 1 complete score...
I think it's time this thread had a bump, due to the fact that we now know for sure that the next complete Goldsmith re-recording (from the Tadlow label this time, not Prometheus-funded) is The Blue Max, and that two of the three suites are MacArthur and Inchon, linked to The Blue Max with a "war" theme although not the same World War and not set in Europe.
I wonder what film the third suite is from...continuing the Pacific WWII theme it might make sense to include In Harm's Way, particularly as the complete score could not be found at Paramount so James might be able to include some previously-unreleased Goldsmith music which would certainly make this already-exciting set more exciting for Goldsmith completists...any other ideas? Another go at Tora! Tora! Tora! perhaps?
Yavar
P.S. to James: Fox's behavior is very strange in regards to The Chairman, assuming they actually do have sketches on hand. Didn't they give you access for The Blue Max, which they also own? In any case, you and Luc haven't let a lack of sketches stop you before...didn't The Salamander and QB VII at least have to be reconstructed entirely by ear? (Quo Vadis too, I think, due to strange lack of cooperation from the Rozsa estate...)
P.P.S. to James: your statement just above that the Academy has sketches for Goldsmith's first two western film scores and that you're interested in recording them has me over the moon! I hope that's your next Goldsmith project as they are a major hole in the Goldsmith discography.
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In light of the news that Intrada is (almost certainly) issuing all that survives from The Secret of NIMH in their next batch, with only one cue added and the rest apparently lost to time, I may have to revise my "most wanted re-recording" list.
Here's what I think would be great: a new orchestral recording of the complete score to Legend, with "Goldsmithian" acoustic substitutes found for some of the weirder synth bits. Apparently a good quality 1st generation source no longer exists for the complete score to this, I believe according to James Fitzpatrick himself.
That'll have to be a two disc set anyway, so I propose filling out the second disc with a 25-30 minute suite from The Secret of NIMH, with the 10 minutes of music that no longer survives on its own fleshed out with some highlights from the rest of the score. Who's with me?
The other option is that the missing NIMH music be re-recorded as a supplement for a first recording of Goldsmith's rejected score to Babe!
I know, I'm dreaming.
Yavar
P.S. We now know the third suite accompanying the complete Blue Max recording will be Patton, joining MacArthur and Inchon. A suite from The Chairman will also be included, and there are no plans at the present time to record the complete score to The Chairman (unfortunately). I hope there will be some previously-unreleased music in the suites from MacArthur and The Chairman, but we'll have to see...
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This is worth another bump, because a couple weeks ago James's complete recording of The Blue Max was released to great acclaim. I've heard my copy and I think it's stupendous, a wonderful alternative performance of one of Goldsmith's greatest scores. And it turned out we got even more bonus suites and themes than originally promised! There was even a bit of previously unreleased music in the Mummy suite. Inchon in good sound quality was a revelation and I think might cause some people to reassess the score. (In a perfect world these would be so financially successful than James could mount a complete new recording of Inchon as well as tons of other great Goldsmith, but I'm happy to have these few cues in modern sound nevertheless. Who else would even record any of Inchon??)
The Chairman was another highlight, and there is some minor news to share on that front. Since I last posted in this thread, James has said in another one that he was going to try again with Fox to get access to the written score materials they have for this. So he hasn't given up on producing a complete new recording of that score. It's not going to definitely happen or anything, but he hasn't given up yet! Keep hope alive, fans of The Most Dangerous Man in the World...
Yavar
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A suite from 1972's "THE MAN" would be most welcomed.
It is not a very long score and a nice reconstructed suite included on a future complete score album would fill a void since this is one of the dwindling number of earlier Goldsmith scores that has never been presented in any form on a recording.
ANZALDIMAN, I thought I'd point you to this thread I started where I go over the complete score, in case you missed it (I didn't see you post there):
http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=113568&forumID=1&archive=0
The complete score (unless there are any cues Goldsmith wrote that didn't end up in the film) is only 13.5 minutes, so I don't think a mere "suite" makes much sense for the score. It's so brief that the entire thing is shorter than most suites and could be easily re-recorded in complete form.
Yavar
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Posted: |
Apr 2, 2016 - 7:53 PM
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By: |
Cmdr. Bond
(Member)
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The Chairman was another highlight, and there is some minor news to share on that front. Since I last posted in this thread, James has said in another one that he was going to try again with Fox to get access to the written score materials they have for this. So he hasn't given up on producing a complete new recording of that score. It's not going to definitely happen or anything, but he hasn't given up yet! Keep hope alive, fans of The Most Dangerous Man in the World...
Yavar
I have, yet hate, to say that I didn't find Tadlow's latest Goldsmith offering quite on par with the previous ones. For instance, with "The World That Only Lovers See" (what I was most looking forward to, at least among the album extras), the mixing of the piano is (much) too low at times, and the orchestra--piano included--misses some of the kind of nuanced beats that helped make Jerry Goldsmith music Jerry Goldsmith Music.
So . . . if Tadlow tackles The Chairman again (to which I'd nonetheless say, "Yes, please!"), special attention to that lovely piece--perhaps Goldsmith's loveliest theme--would be much appreciated.
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And Tadlow's next Goldsmith project was revealed over the past couple of days: Thriller!
It is unknown how much of Goldsmith's Thriller work will be included, or which scores, or whether it will be several complete scores or highlights from each of his scores. But watch this thread for more news as it breaks:
http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=117376&forumID=1&archive=0&pageID=4&r=722#bottom
Though it wasn't on my list in the original post, I applaud James for tackling this project because -- aside from some isolated tracks on the DVD release (many with sound effects) -- this is Goldsmith music which has been completely unreleased on CD. Exciting!
Also, I think this will be a good test for whether Goldsmith's smaller orchestra scores can possibly turn more of a profit (or at least have less of a loss) than the typical Tadlow title. If we can make this Thriller release successful, maybe James would be more likely to tackle other smaller TV scores which are otherwise lost, such as The Man. Or even Black Patch / Face of a Fugitive, which I believe both had orchestras of less than 50 members.
Yavar
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I'll be beyond shocked if it's all he wrote for Thriller. He composed scores for many episodes, almost 7 hours of music which would require probably a six CD set. I think James either picked a handful of his favorite episode scores to record complete, or he did highlights from each. The best we can probably hope for length-wise is a 2 CD set!
Yavar
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Who knows if the originally-announced Prometheus series will have any further entries, as James has stated that he plans to retire after newly recording Miklos Rozsa's Ben-Hur. But in the hopes of Luc Van de Ven having one more Goldsmith surprise up his sleeve, I just recently revised my first post in this thread, to reflect my change in priorities after reading Scott Bettencourt's new Film Score Friday column:
"When writing liner notes or working on any other form of film history, I find that one of my best sources of information is the Academy's Margaret Herrick Library in Beverly Hills. Their "Special Collections" (which can only be viewed by appointment and require a specific research purpose) feature papers donated by many top film professionals.
One especially useful collection for film music historians is the Jerry Goldsmith Music Sketches, which even features his cue sketches for such unused scores as Babe (the pig, not the golfer), Disney's The Kid and The Public Eye."
http://filmscoremonthly.com/daily/article.cfm/articleID/7443/Film-Score-Friday-4716/
We'd previously seen pictures of the written score sheets to Babe (1995) here on the forum, but this is additional confirmation that this probably-never-recorded score does exist in written form and could be given a recording premiere if the funds were raised.
Additionally, The Public Eye was said to be recorded by frequent Goldsmith collaborator, Mike Ross-Trevor. Sadly that recording's whereabouts are unknown, but it is good to know that at least the written scores do survive and in lieu of Goldsmith's own recording could furnish a new complete recording.
And lastly, I don't remember getting clear confirmation before that more than demos were written by Goldsmith for Disney's The Kid. This would seem to be that confirmation, though I don't think we've ever had an indication one way or another about whether anything was recorded before the score was rejected.
Yavar
P.S. The only score I actually removed from my first post was Damnation Alley. I had written:
"7. Damnation Alley -- I'm starting to lose hope that the synth stems will ever be found, and it seems no one is willing to release the original tracks either without them or with a newly-recorded substitute for the missing portions."
Well, I now have more hope of the original recording of this coming out from someone, based on Chris Malone's comments in this complete score breakdown / advance liner notes thread I did:
http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=117082&forumID=1&archive=0
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Posted: |
Apr 7, 2017 - 2:42 PM
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By: |
Tadlow
(Member)
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Who knows if the originally-announced Prometheus series will have any further entries, as James has stated that he plans to retire after newly recording Miklos Rozsa's Ben-Hur. But in the hopes of Luc Van de Ven having one more Goldsmith surprise up his sleeve, I just recently revised my first post in this thread, to reflect my change in priorities after reading Scott Bettencourt's new Film Score Friday column:
"When writing liner notes or working on any other form of film history, I find that one of my best sources of information is the Academy's Margaret Herrick Library in Beverly Hills. Their "Special Collections" (which can only be viewed by appointment and require a specific research purpose) feature papers donated by many top film professionals.
One especially useful collection for film music historians is the Jerry Goldsmith Music Sketches, which even features his cue sketches for such unused scores as Babe (the pig, not the golfer), Disney's The Kid and The Public Eye."
http://filmscoremonthly.com/daily/article.cfm/articleID/7443/Film-Score-Friday-4716/
We'd previously seen pictures of the written score sheets to Babe (1995) here on the forum, but this is additional confirmation that this probably-never-recorded score does exist in written form and could be given a recording premiere if the funds were raised.
Additionally, The Public Eye was said to be recorded by frequent Goldsmith collaborator, Mike Ross-Trevor. Sadly that recording's whereabouts are unknown, but it is good to know that at least the written scores do survive and in lieu of Goldsmith's own recording could furnish a new complete recording.
And lastly, I don't remember getting clear confirmation before that more than demos were written by Goldsmith for Disney's The Kid. This would seem to be that confirmation, though I don't think we've ever had an indication one way or another about whether anything was recorded before the score was rejected.
Yavar
P.S. The only score I actually removed from my first post was Damnation Alley. I had written:
"7. Damnation Alley -- I'm starting to lose hope that the synth stems will ever be found, and it seems no one is willing to release the original tracks either without them or with a newly-recorded substitute for the missing portions."
Well, I now have more hope of the original recording of this coming out from someone, based on Chris Malone's comments in this complete score breakdown / advance liner notes thread I did:
http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=117082&forumID=1&archive=0
Sorry but this is just idle speculation as after Duel in the Sun....that will probably be it for Prometheus. The cost against just does not make any financial sense as now toooo much is being lost per recording ....again it was good while it lasted!
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Sorry but this is just idle speculation as after Duel in the Sun....that will probably be it for Prometheus. The cost against just does not make any financial sense as now toooo much is being lost per recording ....again it was good while it lasted!
James: thanks for tempering our enthusiasm with the news that (as I feared) Prometheus/Luc are probably not interested in doing any further Goldsmith titles beyond the three they have already funded. Glad that you and Leigh decided to tackle Thriller, at least. I hope that is wildly successful enough for you to consider the possible second volume that you'd previously hinted at, but if not, it'll still be a great send-off to your Goldsmith recordings.
Yavar
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A ray of hope from the THRILLER thread!
From James Fitzpatrick:
"Based on the initial reaction I might well consider doing a second volume of Goldsmith THRILLER suites....but before the fans of other composers music for THRILLER get on their high horses, I might well consider doing some of Morton Stevens & Pete Rugolo music if they care to deposit $15,000 in the bank account of Tadlow Music Ltd"
http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=117993&forumID=1&archive=0&pageID=4&r=330#bottom
So perhaps we haven't yet seen the last Tadlow Goldsmith recording, after all!
Yavar
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UPDATE! The new Tadlow THRILLER is already so successful that James Fitzpatrick and Leigh Phillips have decided to do a Vol. 2! His comment from the Thriller thread:
"Next 6 Episodes already chosen for Vol 2 ..... for recording end of this year .... "
Yavar
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Leigh Phillips is the "inspiration" behind James recording these Goldsmith scores.
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