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 Posted:   Aug 14, 2007 - 11:29 PM   
 By:   KeoNato   (Member)

They sounded like CITIZEN KANE when I listened to them both, though.

Well then I guess they did their job. wink I'm really interested in hearing the McNeely version now, if only to compare tempos. Oh how I wish I had disposable income...

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 15, 2007 - 10:42 AM   
 By:   Preston Neal Jones   (Member)

Ruby, not Warren! Thanks, Gary, I knew it was one of the Hollywood Harry's.

Herrmann's wedding cue as you describe it also describes the climax of his suite, "Welles Raises Kane," and it's most effective. I've always delighted in it.

 
 Posted:   Aug 15, 2007 - 2:59 PM   
 By:   GaryInMN   (Member)

Just last month I started a project about Citizen Kane. I've been comparing all the various versions in my collection to see if I could compile a "best of" which would contain the best performances of each track. Gerhardt would (of course) be the first choice for each track he tackled. I also have the McNeely and Bremner versions, plus the suite by Bernstein, and the concert arrangements in the 1st, 3rd, & 4th movements of the Welles Raises Kane Suite conducted by Herrmann.

What I found surprised me. To my ears (please note the subjective preface), the Herrmann performance is every bit as tight and exhilarating as the Gerhardt. (And, since they each cover different tracks, they compliment each other very well.)

Also, I had thought I enjoyed the Bremner version more than the McNeely. However, I found that the McNeely is actually much more precise in its voicing of the instrumentation. (For instance, I can really hear the muted "wah wah" of the trumpets in the "Kane's Picnic" cue.)

Finally, I discovered that if I re-recorded my McNeely CD onto a CDR (for my own use, of course), taking out the silence between tracks (which kills the pacing), re-balancing the volume (so I could hear the quieter tracks), adding more silence before the bonus tracks (to differentiate them from the score itself), and adding the Bernstein suite at the end (to give the disc a more rousing finale) - I found I actually like the McNeely disc.

In fact, I like it well enough that I probably won't bother with the slice & dice version I was originally intending to create.

Of course, all this is IMHO.

 
 Posted:   Aug 15, 2007 - 4:03 PM   
 By:   EdG   (Member)

McNeely improved on Bremner, but neither could touch Gerhardt's suite or Herrmann's own concertized reworkings.

The oddest thing about the Varese/McNeely recording is the absence of the "Opera Montage" which was done very well on the Bremner cd, including the overlapped vocals and the "slowdown" effect at the end. Salinger's "End Titles" would have been welcome as well. You have to get Bernstein's Herrmann album to hear that done well.

Also, the Varese disc was recorded cue by cue over many recording dates (at the tail end of sessions reserved for other scores) and over several years, which accounts for the variation in sound.

The definitive CITIZEN KANE has yet to be recorded.

THE MAGNIFICENT AMBERSONS score ought to be reconsidered also. Bremner's recording suffers from the same distant sound and inconsistent tempi, and because so much of Herrmann's score was dropped or tampered with it would be nice to have someone take a fresh look at it.

The third part of Herrmann's early "trilogy" has never been recorded in it's original film form: THE DEVIL AND DANIEL WEBSTER. Evidently Morgan and Stromberg are hoping to tackle this one, and when they do it may shed more light on Herrmann's intentions for the other two.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 18, 2007 - 9:08 AM   
 By:   estgrey   (Member)

ChristianKühn: I only know the Bremner version and actually like it a lot, but it reportedly dies when compared to McNeely's new re-rec.

Reportedly by whom ? . . . other than Mr. McNeely, of course. (And presumably his mother, and the people who produced or performed in the recording . . . did I leave anyone out?)

I much prefer Bremner's account, which overall has a very nice sense of the score. (Although, does anyone else have the weird distortion at the end of the opera montage? It sounds like tape drag and seems to be in the recording. I see no obvious damage to my CD.)

Some of the McNeely tracks are fine to my ear, but oddly he often takes a tempo which is much too fast. Instead of suggesting Kane's proud and slightly arrogant strutting, for example, the overly quick pacing takes on a purely comical feeling. (How's that for an unusual complaint? -- a rerecording that is too fast.)

 
 Posted:   Jun 22, 2010 - 12:53 AM   
 By:   Sigerson Holmes   (Member)

If memory serves, the end title montage of KANE is scored by Conrad Salinger, using of course the Kane campaign song which was by -- who? Harry Warren?

The tune for Kane's campaign song was "A Poco No" - a Spanish language song by Pepe Guizar with new lyrics by Harry Ruby.



NOT Harry Ruby (1895 - 1974).

The new lyrics are by Herman Ruby (1892 - 1959).

Different guy.

Why am I posting this in 2010, you may ask.

Well . . . you may ask.


Note the credits on the sheet music below:



Now . . . anyone know if Harry & Herman were related?


Bonus trivia question:



In "Three Little Words" (1950) Fred Astaire's Bert Kalmar makes "My Sunny Tennessee" into a hit song by rewriting the original lyrics Red Skelton's HARRY Ruby had written for the same melody.
What was this earlier version of the song called?

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 22, 2010 - 2:41 AM   
 By:   TownerFan   (Member)

I think the recent Chandos re-recording by Rumon Gamba with the BBC Philharmonic is probably the best I've heard.

However, nothing beats Charles Gerhardt's recording for the Classic Film Scores series, imho--too bad he didn't record the entire thing! smile

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 22, 2010 - 5:22 AM   
 By:   CinemaScope   (Member)

I think the recent Chandos re-recording by Rumon Gamba with the BBC Philharmonic is probably the best I've heard.

However, nothing beats Charles Gerhardt's recording for the Classic Film Scores series, imho--too bad he didn't record the entire thing! smile


And with the Gerhardt you also get great stuff like, Beneath The 12-Mile Reef & White Witch Doctor ect.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 22, 2010 - 6:20 AM   
 By:   TownerFan   (Member)

However, nothing beats Charles Gerhardt's recording for the Classic Film Scores series, imho--too bad he didn't record the entire thing! smile

And with the Gerhardt you also get great stuff like, Beneath The 12-Mile Reef & White Witch Doctor ect.



True. That is one of my favourite film music album of all time.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 22, 2010 - 6:23 AM   
 By:   Bill Cooke   (Member)


The recent Chandos re-recording is the best recording/performance of the score, IMO. Gerhardt's was great, but too brief.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 11, 2011 - 9:13 PM   
 By:   jtooke   (Member)

Harry Ruby and Herman Ruby were not related although this has caused confusion in the past.
The only original song in The Story of Vernon and Irene Castle was "Only When You're in My Arms." In untold sites on the net, Harry Ruby is credited on that song but, in fact, it was Herman Ruby. As Harry Ruby and his wife, Eileen Percy were extremely close firends of Marion Davies, I doubt that he would have had anything to do with a picture which mocked Davies.

 
 Posted:   Apr 11, 2011 - 9:25 PM   
 By:   Sigerson Holmes   (Member)

As Harry Ruby and his wife, Eileen Percy were extremely close firends of Marion Davies, I doubt that he would have had anything to do with a picture which mocked Davies.


Fascinating! Thank you.

 
 Posted:   Apr 12, 2011 - 8:19 AM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

I much prefer Bremner's account, which overall has a very nice sense of the score. (Although, does anyone else have the weird distortion at the end of the opera montage? It sounds like tape drag and seems to be in the recording. I see no obvious damage to my CD.)



You are joking aren't you? Reading the notes with the CD here will enlighten you.

 
 Posted:   Apr 12, 2011 - 9:23 AM   
 By:   Ron Pulliam   (Member)

Gerhardt... I can't stomach either of the other recordings.

Absolutely! Gerhardt's is wonderful.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 8, 2018 - 11:26 AM   
 By:   Justsumcrustydude   (Member)

The recent Chandos re-recording is the best recording/performance of the score, IMO. Gerhardt's was great, but too brief.

I first heard the score outside of the movie on the Chandos, and I really like that singer on the opera piece. The recording gave me chills several times (plus hey, the Hangover Square entry is far from a slouch...great recording imo!).

You could probably do more than well just having the Gephardt, unless you're really concerned about completion. McNeely is really good imo.

 
 Posted:   Feb 8, 2018 - 11:27 AM   
 By:   WagnerAlmighty   (Member)

wrong topic, sorry

 
 Posted:   Feb 8, 2018 - 11:51 AM   
 By:   'Lenny Bruce' Marshall   (Member)

Gerhardt. wink

I only know the Bremner version and actually like it a lot, but it reportedly dies when compared to McNeely's new re-rec.

CK


It's hard to get very excited about the Bremner recording (which I have) after hearing Gerhardt's masterful, energetic reading of the KANE tracks on his Bernard Herrmann anthology. I haven't had the pleasure of hearing the McNeely re-recording, so I will defer to others on that.

Your appreciation of CITIZEN KANE will not be complete without hearing the Gerhardt version, which though out of print is readily available and reasonably priced still. Amazon has it:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000003EM9/ref=pd_bbs_sr_olp_3/105-0997574-3436435?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1187041829&sr=1-3

...and it may be available elsewhere as well.



You can close this thread NOW!

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 13, 2018 - 12:53 PM   
 By:   .   (Member)

The Chandos version (Rumon Gamba) is the clear first choice for me.
I still love the Gerhardt suite of course, but I feel no need to play the Bremner or McNeely versions anymore.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 13, 2018 - 3:08 PM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

Your appreciation of CITIZEN KANE will not be complete without hearing the Gerhardt version, which though out of print is readily available and reasonably priced still. Amazon has it:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000003EM9/ref=pd_bbs_sr_olp_3/105-0997574-3436435?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1187041829&sr=1-3

...and it may be available elsewhere as well.




Try before you buy:

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 13, 2018 - 5:17 PM   
 By:   Howard L   (Member)

Arresting.
Thank you, Bob. Performance is what matters most. This is a performance via the baton of a man with unimpeachable credentials. My oh my. Pulls me in and makes me want to see the film right now. Yet again.

 
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