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Posted: |
Jul 19, 2014 - 1:07 PM
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By: |
Grecchus
(Member)
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Do you think that, despite Lindbergh's pro-Nazi stance up to and before U.S. involvement in WWII, they'll include the fact that he later had children by 2 different German women, in what amounted to additional marriages, beyond his association with the redoubtable Anne Morrow? (She eventually got fed up with him, and is not buried next to him on the grounds of the home they shared on Maui, as I recall.)
The subject of Lindbergh, if looked at historically, can be most prickly...
If the Lindbergh's relationship turned sour it's a real shame. They had, no doubt, very good times flying around together in what was then a new frontier. I believe it was Charles who taught Anne to fly.
The bad times were bad, I've no doubt of that too. But here, perhaps, is the most revelatory thing about Lindbergh. After his promotional stance of pushing aviation as far as it could go, his own lifetime saw the most startling acceleration of technology that overtook even his tendency to push things a little too far. He saw the Boeing 707 born and was there when Apollo 11 lifted off the pad. Truly phenomenal developments for one lifetime. And yet, the man turned against it all towards the end of his life, advocating himself a conservationist. The unforseen consequences of tampering with the forces of nature seem to have made a big impact on him.
http://www.nytimes.com/books/98/09/27/specials/lindbergh-conservationist.html
I agree his life should be held up to the light because close scrutiny will show up all the colors.
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Lindbergh certainly has his dirty laundry. Just like certain lionized members of the entertainment industry who were just as passionate about the foreign ideology of their devotion as Lindbergh was to his.
Exactly. I guess both sides of the ideological spectrum .... 
I didn't realize there were "two sides" to the Nazi question..
Leave it to "Dr. P" to rush to his defense. Him and Pat Buchanan are so reliable
LOL!
brm
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Spielberg was all seto do a Lindy bio but dropped out when he realized he would be making a film about a racial supremesist!
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Now that we're on a track of geniuses with questionable politics, whatever happened to that proposed film bio of Leni Riefenstahl? I seem to recall reading that Jodi Foster was working on that project.
Same kind of dual relationships there as Lindbergh, on several levels at least, though, of course, Riefenstahl never remotely achieved the iconic status of "Lucky Lindy." (He was really an idol after that flight; all over the world people practically worshiped him. You can still find statues and other memorabilia commemorating him. Sad, that his politics soured the whole thing, not to mention his ideology.)
I suppose they could make a movie about the flight, even though that's already been done, and probably better than any contemporary is likely to do.
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Posted: |
Jul 20, 2014 - 4:14 PM
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By: |
Grecchus
(Member)
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There are aspects of the flight glossed over in the Wilder movie, such as the terrific fright Lindbergh experienced flying non-stop over the Rockies from San Diego to St. Louis, in the first leg of his transcontinental flight taking him from the birth place of his plane, to his base of operations and thence to his springboard into history. The Spirit's Wright J5 'Whirlwind' radial engine's carburettor became cold and there were several bangs that more or less made him think the engine was toast. Also, making an emergency landing amongst the mountains at night without forward visibility ain't such a good idea. He recovered that emergency and ensured a heater was fitted to the carburettor to stop the problem happening again on the more critical enroute flight over the sea. The spinner was flung off the nose at some point and another had to be fashioned while he was stopped over on Long Island before the major flight that claimed the Orteg Prize.
Another interesting aeronautical detail was the Pioneer earth induction compass that was fitted to the aircraft. I think if I remember correctly, while the Spirit's airframe was iced up during the night over the Atlantic, the rotating vane placed on the aft upper dorsal may have stopped revolving for a period until the sun could warm it up sufficiently to enable mechanical movement. This would mean the cockpit indicator which showed whether he was either on track, or too much to the left or right, would have failed because it was basically a dynamo providing the electricity needed to power the device. This instrument was necessary because the Spirit was inherently directionally unstable and required a lot of physical effort to keep in check - probably via the rudder pedals to catch any lurching or yawing to the left or right. The induction compass resolved to a single needle in an oval window that needed to be kept centred. In that state Lindbergh knew he was on course. Basically, it made his life much more simple while performing all the man-management required to fly the plane. There was a box containing a dial with a compass heading Lindbergh could update every hour so he'd maintain a magnetic radial to a high degree of constancy and accuracy - thanks to the Pioneer compass system.
There were more problems. The fuel-laden Spirit had several tanks of gasoline that required manual switching. Use up too much fuel on the left side of the plane and the right side becomes heavy forcing even more manual effort to keep the plane flying true. Not only that, but use up too much fuel from one side, or from fore or aft, and the plane becomes a death trap due to critical mass balance required for safe and continued flight.
All these things had to be perfectly coordinated according to elapsed flight time and Lindbergh was physically and mentally exhausted most of the way to Paris. Can you imagine the potential to become confused, especially over the ocean with no landmark references to fix position. The cockpit had basic square windows on either side. Lindbergh carried detachable clear glass fixtures that could be put in place if he'd wanted to, however, due to the severe tiredness he chose not to put them in so that the slipstream would feed a constant flow of cold air into his face helping to keep him awake. And here's an interesting thing - at one point, in a state of desperate tiredness, Lindbergh related seeing ghostly apparitions in a surrounding mist moving around him, which probably means his mind had started to play tricks.
I sometimes wonder if that Pioneer compass was his most important lifeline on that flight. He decided to fly the great circle route using the method of Dead Reckoning and had done the math to break the flight down into a sequence of straight line segments that he'd drawn onto the mercator charts covering the entire route from New York to Paris. Lindbergh was supremely confident he had the best chance in a single engine plane to reach Paris. An aeroplane powered by two engines, so his own instincts told him, would compound the problem by a factor of 2! He was airborne for 33 and a half hours and landed at Le Bourget in the dark. In this day and age, the minimum number of engines on a transport plane flying the Atlantic deemed as necessary, is 2.
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I didn't realize there were "two sides" to the Nazi question..
brm
Come on, published writer; you know he meant those who supported communism.
C'mom Mission man, you know he will use any excuse to bash "liberals" in the entertainment industry no matter how far off-topic.
He can't help himself
brm
ps I am watching a remarkable documentary : BLOOD IN THE SNOW : RUSSIA UNDER STALIN
I do not know anyone who could possibly defend the actions of this insane, mass murderer. You continue to claim "leftists' expressed MASS DEVOTION and support for the man without any proof beyond a few deluded individuals who closed their eyes to his attrocities. America First was a mass movement.
?????
brm
ps no more on this subject for me. If/when a film gets made about Lindy i will return
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two actors who would make a good Columbo:
Paul Giammatti
PS Hoffman RIP
Ruffalo? hell no!
brm
Paul Giammatti or Philip Seymour Hoffman? Yikes.
Man, am I relieved you are no where near casting this role.
what's wrong with either?
they both have that rumpled, inconspicuous presence that made the Lt. underestimated by his adversaries.
Check out Giammati in THE ILLUSIONIST - very Columboesque
brm
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Posted: |
Jul 20, 2014 - 6:56 PM
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By: |
Eric Paddon
(Member)
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ps I am watching a remarkable documentary : BLOOD IN THE SNOW : RUSSIA UNDER STALINI do not know anyone who could possibly defend the actions of this insane, mass murderer.
That last remark demonstrates that your naivete is limitless. I could "name names" that would fill up this page of people in the entertainment industry, the media and government (we had up to 500 spies inside the FDR bureaucracy working on Stalin's behalf in the 1930s and in World War II, as the Venona Papers now reveal) But I'll give you one name for thought. Walter Duranty, the New York Times Moscow correspondent, whose devotion to Stalin was such that even though he knew that Stalin had killed upwards of 10 million Ukranians through a forced starvation program (in which Moscow party hacks confiscated all grain produced in the Ukraine so it could be sent to Moscow and make the restaurants look plentiful for the benefit of gullible outside tourists, or to be exported to other countries and present the illusion of a thriving economy while the capitalist nations were in crisis during the Depression and thus serve party propaganda purposes) he nonetheless wrote stories talking about how wonderful conditions were in the USSR and that reports of starvation in the Ukraine were false. For this work of hackery and lies as false as anything Goebbels did for Hitler, Walter Duranty was given a Pulitzer Prize which to this date has not been stripped or retracted and which the Times has never apologized to Ukranian groups for despite years of petitions.
You continue to claim "leftists' expressed MASS DEVOTION and support for the man without any proof beyond a few deluded individuals who closed their eyes to his attrocities. America First was a mass movement.
Yes, and it also BTW up to June 22, 1941 included the American Communist Party, which was perfectly willing to join forces with Lindbergh during the days of the Hitler-Stalin Pact and when England was fighting alone against Germany during the "Finest Hour". That's another little dirty secret you don't often hear about those who were so infatuated with Uncle Joe in those days. When the Party told them to jump, they jumped and to hell with their so-called principled anti-fascism.
Like I've said, Bruce, I prefer to treat fools equally. You OTOH, are giving a textbook case of how ideology will trump matters of how one's place in history should ultimately be seen and the hypocrisy is just amazing (and it still leaves you with the fact that you said I defended Lindbergh when I did no such thing. I have always regarded Lindbergh as an anti-Semite who brought on all his own problems and who clearly had some dangerous views of the Nazi regime during that critical period that made his ostracism at the time deserved).
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WALTER DURANTY
WALTER CRONKITE.....
sounds like an obsession to me
brm
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I was hoping you might come back to this board refreshed and mellow and of sober thought
Fat chance
LOL!
....you and Ford make a great matched set).
Now that, i take serious offense too!
ahahhahhahahaha!!
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ps I am watching a remarkable documentary : BLOOD IN THE SNOW : RUSSIA UNDER STALINI do not know anyone who could possibly defend the actions of this insane, mass murderer.
ent.
. I have always regarded Lindbergh as an anti-Semite who brought on all his own problems and who clearly had some dangerous views of the Nazi regime during that critical period that made his ostracism at the time deserved).
We agree.
let us leave on a point of agreement
bruce
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The only obsession I'm seeing demonstrated is how hearing accurate history lessons sends people like you into conniptions of fury.
That's not the point.
A post about Lindbergh was diverted into a dissection of Stalin and the US left. I , personally do not see the connection.
Overall, i agree with most what you said. SO, there is really nuthin' left to argue about
cheers
bruce
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