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There will be a second hand market for the used boxes. Many who think they can afford it now and therefore buy it, they will be forced to sell it later at much lower prices because they need the money. (Whole collections will be available at dumping prices.) Of course, those who can not afford it right now do not have any guarnatee that they will be in a better position with more funds when the used items show up on the market places. But I'm confident that this Spartacus set will be available for a long time - new or used.
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Do the Varese boys think we're all rich and the recession a fantasy? I'm possibly losing my job in a few months and cannot dream of buying this SPARTACUS in these uncertain times.
Berate me as bitter or petty if you want...Madness.
Does anyone else think that madness is buying CDs when one should be building up one's funds in anticipation of possible unemployment? Reading that post unsettled me somewhat. 
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Bottom line is that back then there was no impetus to protect elements as there is today.
Exactly. The purpose for archiving scores outside the film was as a reference tool and as a promotion device for the studio, the orchestra, or the composer. A composer in, say, MGM might reference the tapes if it was his and the studios wish to hire his services to another studio. 'This is what he can do'.
There was never an expectation that the music might survive outside a soundtrack album and the movie itself. There was no obsessive scholarship about it, there were neither opportunities nor demand for remixes, there were no videotape releases or DVDs, no easy digitalisation, no remixing for new media. Nobody expected EVERYTHING to be possible. Just like ancient Greeks never took it for granted they might walk on the Moon. These were professional IN-HOUSE industry tapes for referencing composer's styles by the studios, nothing more. And for musical analysis, precise hi-fi isn't necessary.
To me this all sounds very ungrateful. It wasn't Varese, or Mr. Townson who built up 'Spartacus' to the heights of greatest objet de desire ever, it was YOU all. So it needed something extra, and Varese provided it, in a form marketable to a wide or a narrow audience, just not that cheap. You all claimed you'd chop off limbs for the score, now that the axe is available, you shrink back. Fair enough, but I suspect it'll have cheaper, reduced incarnations later, like Tadlow's 'El Cid' etc.. It's good business when you realise that many will pay for this at high prices now.
I personally reiterate, and I care not who disagrees, that a clever stereo spread will bring any mono alive, and this is one score that it works for, so if you have the software at home, do it, don't gripe and shout purism. The samples suggest that Varese did their very best to present it well. As mentioned, there's no scratchy sense of mono, they've hung very slight reverb to smooth over the clipping, and it sounds great. If you were told to expect stereo, who told you? The post-battle choral restoration for instance ... it's the piece always cited as restored, and there it is on the first disc.
A lot of this griping is a waste of energy.
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Those that are crying and screaming and saying all the bad are just jealous, jealous that you can't buy it, nah nah na boo boo.
Well I'm jealous of you being jealous, so there.
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Bottom line is that back then there was no impetus to protect elements as there is today.
Exactly. The purpose for archiving scores outside the film was as a reference tool and as a promotion device for the studio, the orchestra, or the composer. A composer in, say, MGM might reference the tapes if it was his and the studios wish to hire his services to another studio. 'This is what he can do'.
There was never an expectation that the music might survive outside a soundtrack album and the movie itself. There was no obsessive scholarship about it, there were neither opportunities nor demand for remixes, there were no videotape releases or DVDs, no easy digitalisation, no remixing for new media. Nobody expected EVERYTHING to be possible. Just like ancient Greeks never took it for granted they might walk on the Moon. These were professional IN-HOUSE industry tapes for referencing composer's styles by the studios, nothing more. And for musical analysis, precise hi-fi isn't necessary.
To me this all sounds very ungrateful. It wasn't Varese, or Mr. Townson who built up 'Spartacus' to the heights of greatest objet de desire ever, it was YOU all. So it needed something extra, and Varese provided it, in a form marketable to a wide or a narrow audience, just not that cheap. You all claimed you'd chop off limbs for the score, now that the axe is available, you shrink back. Fair enough, but I suspect it'll have cheaper, reduced incarnations later, like Tadlow's 'El Cid' etc.. It's good business when you realise that many will pay for this at high prices now.
I personally reiterate, and I care not who disagrees, that a clever stereo spread will bring any mono alive, and this is one score that it works for, so if you have the software at home, do it, don't gripe and shout purism. The samples suggest that Varese did their very best to present it well. As mentioned, there's no scratchy sense of mono, they've hung very slight reverb to smooth over the clipping, and it sounds great. If you were told to expect stereo, who told you? The post-battle choral restoration for instance ... it's the piece always cited as restored, and there it is on the first disc.
A lot of this griping is a waste of energy.
As is the griping about the griping. 
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Posted: |
Jun 29, 2010 - 12:49 PM
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By: |
flavusko
(Member)
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I'll pass. This SPARTACUS SET is a great oportunity for collectors, speculators and the rich ones, not for fans and people who appreciate scores. Purchasing this set just to collect sounds very irrational to me.
TADLOW can make this better and for a reasonable price.
So anyone who buys it isn't a true FAN and cannot possibly appreciate scores?
And who here has said they bought the set "just to collect"?
How pathetic to insult everyone who buys this score because it's a dream come true for them.
How sad, unfortunate, pathetic and SHAMEFULof you, Dr. Lao, to post something so ludicrously nonsensical AND hateful.
I feel sorry for you.
Varese's SPARTACUS is a total disappointment, because it was NOT made for the fans. It is unnecessarily expensive, contains a lot of unnecessary and unsolicited stuff and will offer a bad listening experience, since it's mono. I'm a fan of Mr. North music and I have 110 bucks in my pocket, but I am not a 'collector' and I refuse to buy this set. That's why I'm going to wait for an hypothetical superior TADLOW release.
Let's wait and see how long Varese will take to make half a million from the compulsive ones.
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Posted: |
Jun 29, 2010 - 12:50 PM
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By: |
CinemaScope
(Member)
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Bottom line is that back then there was no impetus to protect elements as there is today.
Exactly. The purpose for archiving scores outside the film was as a reference tool and as a promotion device for the studio, the orchestra, or the composer. A composer in, say, MGM might reference the tapes if it was his and the studios wish to hire his services to another studio. 'This is what he can do'.
There was never an expectation that the music might survive outside a soundtrack album and the movie itself. There was no obsessive scholarship about it, there were neither opportunities nor demand for remixes, there were no videotape releases or DVDs, no easy digitalisation, no remixing for new media. Nobody expected EVERYTHING to be possible. Just like ancient Greeks never took it for granted they might walk on the Moon. These were professional IN-HOUSE industry tapes for referencing composer's styles by the studios, nothing more. And for musical analysis, precise hi-fi isn't necessary.
To me this all sounds very ungrateful. It wasn't Varese, or Mr. Townson who built up 'Spartacus' to the heights of greatest objet de desire ever, it was YOU all. So it needed something extra, and Varese provided it, in a form marketable to a wide or a narrow audience, just not that cheap. You all claimed you'd chop off limbs for the score, now that the axe is available, you shrink back. Fair enough, but I suspect it'll have cheaper, reduced incarnations later, like Tadlow's 'El Cid' etc.. It's good business when you realise that many will pay for this at high prices now.
I personally reiterate, and I care not who disagrees, that a clever stereo spread will bring any mono alive, and this is one score that it works for, so if you have the software at home, do it, don't gripe and shout purism. The samples suggest that Varese did their very best to present it well. As mentioned, there's no scratchy sense of mono, they've hung very slight reverb to smooth over the clipping, and it sounds great. If you were told to expect stereo, who told you? The post-battle choral restoration for instance ... it's the piece always cited as restored, and there it is on the first disc.
A lot of this griping is a waste of energy.
It doesn't take a lot of energy to bash a keyboard a few times...& it's fun.
The main complaint is 1/ it's mono, & that's certainly not the fault of Varese. 2/ it costs over $100 (well over with p&p - esp. overseas), becouse you have to buy a ton of "stuff" with it. Varese guilty! I'm away 'till the end of the week now, so no more fanning the flames from me, you'll be glad to here. It'll be interesting to check this at the weekend to see how the thread is going.
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Posted: |
Jun 29, 2010 - 12:52 PM
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By: |
Ed Nassour
(Member)
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Bottom line is that back then there was no impetus to protect elements as there is today.
Exactly. The purpose for archiving scores outside the film was as a reference tool and as a promotion device for the studio, the orchestra, or the composer. A composer in, say, MGM might reference the tapes if it was his and the studios wish to hire his services to another studio. 'This is what he can do'.
There was never an expectation that the music might survive outside a soundtrack album and the movie itself. There was no obsessive scholarship about it, there were neither opportunities nor demand for remixes, there were no videotape releases or DVDs, no easy digitalisation, no remixing for new media. Nobody expected EVERYTHING to be possible. Just like ancient Greeks never took it for granted they might walk on the Moon. These were professional IN-HOUSE industry tapes for referencing composer's styles by the studios, nothing more. And for musical analysis, precise hi-fi isn't necessary.
To me this all sounds very ungrateful. It wasn't Varese, or Mr. Townson who built up 'Spartacus' to the heights of greatest objet de desire ever, it was YOU all. So it needed something extra, and Varese provided it, in a form marketable to a wide or a narrow audience, just not that cheap. You all claimed you'd chop off limbs for the score, now that the axe is available, you shrink back. Fair enough, but I suspect it'll have cheaper, reduced incarnations later, like Tadlow's 'El Cid' etc.. It's good business when you realise that many will pay for this at high prices now.
I personally reiterate, and I care not who disagrees, that a clever stereo spread will bring any mono alive, and this is one score that it works for, so if you have the software at home, do it, don't gripe and shout purism. The samples suggest that Varese did their very best to present it well. As mentioned, there's no scratchy sense of mono, they've hung very slight reverb to smooth over the clipping, and it sounds great. If you were told to expect stereo, who told you? The post-battle choral restoration for instance ... it's the piece always cited as restored, and there it is on the first disc.
A lot of this griping is a waste of energy.
My main complaint is not chiefly about a lack of the entire score being in full stereo. It has more to do with the fact the release is padded with superfluous material that most soundtrack collectors could have done without.
And as many here have stated on this forum, the high list price is sadly out of their reach. Had Varese just provided the score at a much lower price, there would have been less complaints. I guess I'm lucky since I can afford such a price. But I've decided to pass on it. Why should I buy a set where half of the product won't be enjoyed by me?
I suggest to Varese they drop the jazz interpretations and the DVD and just issue the score at a lower price as a separate edition.
Then there's the remote possibility that somehow the entire score will one day be discovered in full stereo. That's not beyond the realm of possibilities. I never thought I'd live to see the day the entire score for "The Great Escape" would be issued in full stereo.
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You all claimed you'd chop off limbs for the score, now that the axe is available, you shrink back.
It's called "second thought".
Maybe Varèse should sell their sets for toes.
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I know a lot of people are complaining, but Spartacus is one of my favorite scores, I orderd it yesterday. I know it's expensive but except for the love theme variations, well worth it. People who are waiting for a less expensive reissue will probably be disappointed since I have never seen reissues of club releases. Soundtrack collecting is a limited market and you can't expect them at mass market music prices. I will save on less important releases and expeditures and enjoy many hours with the Spartacus set. Lastly I would like to thank Robert Townson for producing it.
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