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I'm not sure this really qualifies for a Marvel's Greatest Heroes thread, but happy Super Bowl everyone!
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Posted: |
Feb 5, 2017 - 10:39 AM
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By: |
Jim Phelps
(Member)
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Have you read Mark Gruenwald's Captain America run? It has plenty of goofy moments, and some very cringeworthy stories, particularly as his run was coming to an end, but Gruenwald also told some powerful stories and lots of stories that were just plain fun. Marvel has an upcoming trade reprinting an earlier chunk of Gruenwald's run, including his Scourge storyline. https://www.amazon.com/Captain-America-Epic-Collection-Justice/dp/1302904205/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1473043673&sr=1-5&keywords=captain+america+epic+collection
The book also has Captain America Annual #8, featuring my all time favorite Mike Zeck Cap cover. I am pretty sure I have posted it before, but it is worth a repeat.
Sorry I didn't answer this question. It was posted just before my sabbatical. 
I have the Society of Serpents Epic Collection, which fills in the few issues I had of Gruenwald's Cap run. Yes, silly villains but Cap is still Cap, and his world with SHIELD and everything else is still intact.
Gruenwald is considered a saint in some circles, but if what I've read about him forcing Roger Stern off The Avengers as writer is true, then he ain't no saint. 
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Have you read Mark Gruenwald's Captain America run? It has plenty of goofy moments, and some very cringeworthy stories, particularly as his run was coming to an end, but Gruenwald also told some powerful stories and lots of stories that were just plain fun. Marvel has an upcoming trade reprinting an earlier chunk of Gruenwald's run, including his Scourge storyline. https://www.amazon.com/Captain-America-Epic-Collection-Justice/dp/1302904205/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1473043673&sr=1-5&keywords=captain+america+epic+collection
The book also has Captain America Annual #8, featuring my all time favorite Mike Zeck Cap cover. I am pretty sure I have posted it before, but it is worth a repeat.
Sorry I didn't answer this question. It was posted just before my sabbatical.
I have the Society of Serpents Epic Collection, which fills in the few issues I had of Gruenwald's Cap run. Yes, silly villains but Cap is still Cap, and his world with SHIELD and everything else is still intact.
Gruenwald is considered a saint in some circles, but if what I've read about him forcing Roger Stern off The Avengers as writer is true, then he ain't no saint.
It is funny that you mention this, as I am finishing up Stern's run on Avengers. I just re-read Under Siege as part of a binge read of Stern's run, and I am very impressed with how well done the storyline is. I originally read the Under Siege trade, which had the core storyline, which is I believe 6 issues or so. After having read the vast majority of Stern's run, I appreciate Under Siege even more. It now reads much better having discovered that Stern set up several aspects of the story quite a while before Under Siege technically starts, including some of the villains who sign up with Zemo, the tensions between Wasp and Hercules, and Black Knight's seemingly unrequited love for Wasp. The Assault on Olympus storyline taking place afterwards is also great fun.
I hadn't known that Gruenwald got rid of Stern from Avengers. Not a smart move. Especially since the quality of Avengers dipped dramatically, and never really recovered until Kurt Busiek and George Perez took over the title. To be fair to Gruenwald though, I believe he is also who hired Stern in the first place. So maybe his saint status deserves an (*) after it
Speaking of Gruenwald, creepy as it sounds, I may just own a bit of him. After he passed, he was cremated, and his ashes were mixed into the ink that printed the Squadron Supreme trade paperback. http://articles.latimes.com/1997/aug/29/news/mn-27069 Hard to imagine that he died at an age that is younger than I am now.
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The only thing I didn't like in Under Siege--and it's "my problem"--is that the art is overpowered by Tom Palmer's inks. In fact, the art reminds me how Marvel's Star Wars comic looked when Palmer--a superb talent, to be sure--was inking Walt Simonson's pencils and achieving the same overpowering effect just a few years prior. Once again, that's me and not the work itself.
Another thing is how Stern makes his creation, the Monica Rambeau Captain Marvel, into the "Mary Sue" of the team. I liked her when I was a kid, but feel that her elevation to team leader a bit rushed. I still like the character, though.
You make a fair point about Tom Palmer's inks. That said, for me the Buscema/Palmer team was such an improvement over Al Milgrom's art on the book, the inking didn't bother me so much. John Buscema is one of my favorite artists, so I was just happy to have him on board.
Pretty much every writer that has had a lengthy tenure on Avengers, Justice League, or X-Men has their "pet character" who gets more attention than probably deserved, and Stern was no exception. Making her leader was a bit much, and too soon. I also don't like it because the Avengers works best when the leader is generally one of the less powerful characters, so it keeps them engaged when they go up against powerful villains who can throw Thor around. I can see Stern's dilemma though, as if I recall the timing correctly, Thor was dealing with being cursed by Hela, and Cap was about to give up being Captain America, so there weren't that many choices available to him. Black Knight was still too green, Doctor Druid just joined, and She-Hulk's characterization didn't lend to a leadership role.
I do think that Monica Rambeau is a great character, and the scenes with her parents helped ground her character in a way they couldn't really do with any of the other members. Unfortunately, once Stern left, I believe she was quickly shuffled off the team, and hasn't been seen much since. Considering how powerful she is, I can see why some writers might shy away from her, but it would be great to see her used more. Hopefully they will find a way to use her in an upcoming film to broaden her exposure.
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Posted: |
Feb 6, 2017 - 10:52 AM
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By: |
drop_forge
(Member)
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I remember loving the art in their adaption of "Logan's Run"
I read a couple of those. Marvel was attempting many tie-in properties at the time, and of course saved themselves when their Star Wars comic became a huge seller.
I just read or watched something on this. Marvel was not doing well at the time and Lucas offered Star Wars to them license free! It was an offer they couldn't refuse. Lucas didn't care about the revenue he saw it as free publicity for his film.
Oh, man. That's not the whole story. Stan Lee actually turned Lucas DOWN the first time. No shit. Roy Thomas should be credited with saving the (sinking) ship, because he talked Stan into thinking about it, i.e. accepting the offer. The deal was once 100,000 copies were sold, the royalty plan would be redrafted.
Well, they certainly met that quota, which surprised (and disappointed) Stan, because that meant Marvel was going to have to start sending Lucasfilm bigger checks! 
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Posted: |
Feb 6, 2017 - 2:16 PM
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By: |
LeHah
(Member)
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Since this thread started, I've met several of the people talked about here. Tom Palmer, JM DeMattis, Mike Zeck, Stan Lee (for all of 90 seconds)... and a couple of others that weren't mentioned (Alex Saviuk, Mark Bagley, Jose Garcia-Lopez, Danny Fingeroth). Its strange to think I've now met so many of my childhood heroes. Most of them are incredibly nice, down to earth people (one of them wasn't, I think I caught him on a bad day).
I'd *kill* to meet Sal Buscema. He's one of the last ones on my list but he doesn't do conventions anymore.
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Posted: |
Feb 7, 2017 - 7:58 AM
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By: |
Jim Phelps
(Member)
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IIRC, Palmer was doing finishes over Buscema's breakdowns. So I don't think it's accurate to say that "the art is overpowered by Tom Palmer's inks". If Buscema had been doing full pencils, I'm sure Palmer wouldn't have overpowered the art. IMHO.
Boys, boys, boys...I'm not disparaging Palmer's work--I'm a long-time admirer of the man's excellent efforts--but for the purposes of what I mentioned previously, do have a look at his work on Marvel's Star Wars and on Under Siege, and you will see what I'm talking about. I don't care if he was doing finishes or inks, the end result has a sameness that imo obliterates the pencils/breakdown/semantics of what his co-illustrator was doing. Okay? Thanks.
Lehah- I met Mike Zeck two years ago--had him sign a Master of Kung Fu--you can find the scan of said comic upthread, circa June or July 2015. Yes, the man is soft spoken and comes across as a thoroughly-decent guy. He himself cracked a smile when presented with that MoKF comic; he said that it was always nice to see one of those for signing. I was thrilled.
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Posted: |
Feb 7, 2017 - 12:36 PM
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By: |
spiderich
(Member)
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< Boys, boys, boys...I'm not disparaging Palmer's work--I'm a long-time admirer of the man's excellent efforts--but for the purposes of what I mentioned previously, do have a look at his work on Marvel's Star Wars and on Under Siege, and you will see what I'm talking about. I don't care if he was doing finishes or inks, the end result has a sameness that imo obliterates the pencils/breakdown/semantics of what his co-illustrator was doing. Okay? Thanks. >
Hi Jim, I didn't mean to imply that you were disparaging Palmer's work, rather, just pointing out that there's a big difference between "inks" & "finishes". It's not merely semantics. Buscema's breakdowns could be rather loose, so by default, Palmer finishes would inevitably look more like Palmer's art than Buscema's. Another example: Buscema did breakdowns on the Wolverine series, and that the end product had more of a Klaus Janson look to it (Janson did the finishes).
Also, Buscema was not in his prime at that point, IMHO, so the end product was somewhat less than the Buscema/Palmer team (full pencils/inks) on the earlier Avengers run with Roy Thomas. BTW, I, too, wish that he would have done full pencils.
Another BTW, I always enjoy your posts on comics Jim!
Richard G.
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