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 Posted:   Jun 15, 2013 - 1:20 PM   
 By:   Mr. Marshall   (Member)

The problem with Rosenman is he can't go for more than 8 bars without going back to that darned "tone pyramid" thingy.

.

brm


...... do you even know what a tone pyramid is, could you analyze or construct one?
.



Its that big thingy in Egypt, right?
I would need a few thousand slaves to construct one, unfortunatley
brm

btw if i know so little about music, why the ef do you care what i think?
Huh?
huh?

 
 Posted:   Jun 15, 2013 - 1:37 PM   
 By:   Mr. Marshall   (Member)

Barry and Herrmann have a large variety of stylistic devices plus unique approaches to orchestration



.... GTFO of my thread.

.



"Your" thread?

 
 Posted:   Jun 15, 2013 - 2:27 PM   
 By:   steb74   (Member)

btw if i know so little about music, why the ef do you care what i think?
Huh?
huh?


I don't to be perfectly honest but for some reason your ignorance amuses me.
I'm guessing the 'Huh? huh?' is related to one of those exciting and electrical ball bag twinges that some folks can get from attempting humor on the internet?

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 16, 2013 - 11:15 AM   
 By:   Mr. Shark   (Member)

Don't feed the troll, folks.

Anyone know where Rosenman got his alarm call figures from - the way muted trumpets, strings and winds tap out Morse Code rhythms as one by one they build a chord out of Major 7ths and Minor 9ths - like when Donald Pleasence gets engulfed by a white corpuscle?

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 16, 2013 - 3:55 PM   
 By:   TheFamousEccles   (Member)

Don't feed the troll, folks.

Anyone know where Rosenman got his alarm call figures from - the way muted trumpets, strings and winds tap out Morse Code rhythms as one by one they build a chord out of Major 7ths and Minor 9ths - like when Donald Pleasence gets engulfed by a white corpuscle?


Monsieur Shark, those Stockhausen pieces you mentioned were indeed the ones I was thinking of.

As for the chattering figures here, these are definitely things that have been trademarks of Rosenman's work from early on - things like that appear in his early piano works, and of course, later in scores like "Star Trek IV," and his second Violin Concerto. As for its direct antecedent, I can't readily think of anything, but it certainly would have been a device another composer would have utilized - I know Rosenman was (in addition to the serialists and the Second Viennese, and other contemporary composers) a tremendous admirer of Sibelius, though I can't think of anything in his works that used a similar device - then again, except for "Finlandia" and his Second Symphony, I haven't listened much to him recently, either.

Part of Rosenman's jagged rhythmic work definitely owes to Schönberg (for some reason, his piano works in particular evoke Rosenman's sensibility to me - especially his "Suite for Piano," Op. 25.) You can also hear certain orchestration ideas in Roger Sessions' "Divertimento for Orchestra" (particularly the "Perpetuum Mobile" movement, with its Xylophone doubling on accented repeated notes) that paved the way for elements of "Fantastic." Of course, none of this really answers your initial question.

Speaking of Alban Berg (whose influence on Goldsmith was certainly profound, too) - I can also hear a bit of the second movement of the "Lyric Suite" (a work that Rosenman loved) in Bronislau Kaper's "Ant Fugue" from "Them!"

Tangentially Rosenman related, but given their friendship and the time he studied with him, it's not totally out of the blue: have you spent much time with Dallapiccola's opera "Ulysse"? I've not listened to it for some time, and just put it on an hour or so ago, and I'd forgotten how astonishing some of the writing is.

 
 Posted:   Jun 16, 2013 - 4:53 PM   
 By:   RoryR   (Member)

I don't think I've ever listened to an Alex North score that doesn't have some moment from another Alex North score in it and I can't think of any time I've heard North referred to as a "serial self-plaigerist." I doubt there's a film composer who's never revisited some of their old territory, intentionally or unintentionally.

I hear some of PLANET OF THE APES in Goldsmith's THE MEPHISTO WALTZ, and some IN HARM'S WAY in PLANET OF THE APES. I also hear some Leonard Rosenman in Goldsmith's THE ILLUSTRATED MAN.

 
 Posted:   Jun 17, 2013 - 12:22 PM   
 By:   Mr. Marshall   (Member)

Don't feed the troll, folks.

?



Hey man!
I've been published!*
brm

*this catchphrase is inspired by Andy Kaufman' brIlliant anti-hollywood satire I'M FROM HOLLYWOOD.
When the crowd of wrestling fans starts booing Andy - after he insults them - he screams back " Hey! I'm From Hollywood!"
Pure genius
check it out!

 
 Posted:   Jun 17, 2013 - 3:51 PM   
 By:   Loren   (Member)

I doubt there's a film composer who's never revisited some of their old territory, intentionally or unintentionally.

And when this happens film music fans are usually delighted.

 
 Posted:   Jun 17, 2013 - 4:03 PM   
 By:   ToneRow   (Member)

More music to look into is dancing around my head, but I'm stunned to find that many of my 20th Century Concert music recordings are not around - so I don't want to speak much more without specific repertoire mentions - perhaps our good friend ToneRow can chime in!

Thank You, Eccles.

My examples will tend to favor the post-WWII serialists, with whom I associate Rosenman the most.

Some of the early orchestral works by Italians such as Bruno Maderna or Luigi Nono come to my mind when listening to FANTASTIC VOYAGE.

Here's a few YouTube videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuGeiw_UnXs&feature=player_detailpage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIipwlKojUE&feature=player_detailpage

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 18, 2013 - 4:19 AM   
 By:   Graham S. Watt   (Member)

Thanks for those links to Bruno Maderna, Mr Row. I imagine that Leonard Rosenman was steeped in that kind of writing, and again we have "the Italian connection".

It's funny, but the more I learn, the less I seem to know. I used to think that film composers lived in a vacuum and created all those crazy soundtracks out of the blue. When it began to dawn on me that people such as Rosenman, Goldsmith and Fielding (for example) would often do a fair bit of "channeling", I was disappointed at first. Now that I have a slightly better idea of the wider picture, I'm finding that I'm appreciating everything even more than before, because it's got a kind of history-of-the-world perspective to it and is all intertwined and connected to things outside my 10-year-old SF film mentality in an endlessly fascinating way.

I really feel like listening to FANTASTIC VOYAGE again right now. A great score all the way.

 
 Posted:   Jun 18, 2013 - 5:02 AM   
 By:   OnlyGoodMusic   (Member)

If you can't get the original score, you might aproach the Robert-Schumann-Hochschule Düsseldorf, Germany. EDEL recorded a 6 1/2 minute suite in the 1990s and I think the copies of the score went to the archive of that university upon the death of the producer, Thomas Karban. I'm not exactly sure if he kept a copy of that particular score for himself, but he did keep a lot of the scores he got recorded.

 
 Posted:   Jun 18, 2013 - 5:27 AM   
 By:   ToneRow   (Member)

Thanks for those links to Bruno Maderna, Mr Row. I imagine that Leonard Rosenman was steeped in that kind of writing, and again we have "the Italian connection".


You're welcome, Graham.

That Italian connection you refer is also what I think.

Rosenman not only studied with Luigi Dallapiccola but also conducted contemporary classical music concerts - which is excatly what Bruno Maderna did as well besides being a composer.

Because of this, I seem to detect an Italianate lyricism with Rosenman's film scores, which are not as "dry" or as "academic" as concert works by other serialists (like Roberto Gerhard - one of my faves).

Interestingly, the contemporary classical piece which reminded me of FANTASTIC VOYAGE when I first heard it is Maurice Ohana's T'haran-ngo (which was written in 1974 - after FV!).
Unfortunately, Ohana's T'haran-ngo is not uploaded onto YouTube, but, for those interested, it is available on the French Timpani label:




Here's a few more selections:

  • Three Questions with Two Answers by Dallapiccola

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gN5r6Mmdwv0&feature=player_detailpage

  • Epithalamion by Roberto Gerhard

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1WDhp_emw8&feature=player_detailpage

    (this concert piece was culled from music Gerhard had written for THIS SPORTING LIFE)

  •  
     Posted:   Jun 18, 2013 - 5:30 AM   
     By:   stroppy   (Member)

    Just a little bit of trivia...the sound effects in the opening of the title track were ones used often in Irwin Allen series, especially Lost in Space. The opening "blip" often signified someone appearing or disappearing and the bell-like drone was used as the engine noise for the Jupiter 2 in cruise mode.

    As to the music itself I thought it was great when I first saw the movie years ago. It lent a really eerie "voice" to the film.

     
     
     Posted:   Jun 18, 2013 - 6:51 AM   
     By:   Mr. Shark   (Member)

    Many thanks for your contributions to this thread, TW. Are those two Maderna pieces and the Gerhard available for purchase from any publisher? I'm a guy who likes to read scores like books, and it's the next best thing to studying FV itself.

    Any '50s Nono works you're thinking of?

     
     Posted:   Jun 18, 2013 - 2:59 PM   
     By:   ToneRow   (Member)

    Any '50s Nono works you're thinking of?

    One in particular - yes.

    Luigi Nono's 1950 Variazioni canoniche, which I discovered years ago on the Astree CD:



    (according to the reverse side of this album, Variazioni canoniche is copyright by G. RICORDI & C.S.p.A., Milano)


     
     Posted:   Jun 18, 2013 - 3:35 PM   
     By:   ToneRow   (Member)

    Many thanks for your contributions to this thread, TW. Are those two Maderna pieces and the Gerhard available for purchase from any publisher? I'm a guy who likes to read scores like books, and it's the next best thing to studying FV itself.


    You're welcome.

    I'm unsure about the Maderna works - I have only heard them in 2012 thanks to the 4 volumes of Maderna released on the Neos label.
    (I'd have to look inside the albums to see who the publisher is).

    I think works by Roberto Gerhard are published by Boosey & Hawkes (but this is from memory, so don't quote me smile )

     
     
     Posted:   Jun 18, 2013 - 3:36 PM   
     By:   Mr. Shark   (Member)

    Cheers, as always.

    FWIW, I've found the study score for Gerhard's Epithalamion (which I love, BTW) at Boosey & Hawkes for only 20 quid (around 31 dollars)!

    http://www.boosey.com/pages/shop/product_detail.asp?id=600692&

    Sheet Music Plus have also got Ohana's T'Haran-Ngo for a similarly reasonable £25.

    http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/T-Haran-Ngo/19474792

    The ones that are a bugger to find are the two Madernas you linked to. Won't give up hope.

     
     
     Posted:   Jun 19, 2013 - 10:21 AM   
     By:   Jon Lewis   (Member)

    Nice to see Ohana mentioned. His striking, kaliedoscopic music was one of my favorite classical discoveries of the past couple of years. A great number of his works have been rereleased as downloads-only of late.

     
     Posted:   Jun 19, 2013 - 3:48 PM   
     By:   ToneRow   (Member)

    Nice to see Ohana mentioned. His striking, kaliedoscopic music was one of my favorite classical discoveries of the past couple of years. A great number of his works have been rereleased as downloads-only of late.

    Hi, Jon.

    Nice to see another follower of Ohana music!

    Take a look in my FSM profile ... and tell me whose picture you see as my profile icon/avatar? big grin

     
     Posted:   Jun 19, 2013 - 3:57 PM   
     By:   ToneRow   (Member)

    Tangentially Rosenman related, but given their friendship and the time he studied with him, it's not totally out of the blue: have you spent much time with Dallapiccola's opera "Ulysse"? I've not listened to it for some time, and just put it on an hour or so ago, and I'd forgotten how astonishing some of the writing is.

    ToneRow spent lots of time listening to this operatic masterpiece, FamousEccles! smile

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMzgi_QUbjE&feature=player_detailpage

    This YT clip utilizes the original live monaural recording of Dallapiccola's Ulisse which premiered in 1968.

    The version I like better, though, is the 1975 radio recording which was released on the Naive label in 2003:





     
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