Film Score Monthly
FSM HOME MESSAGE BOARD FSM CDs FSM ONLINE RESOURCES FUN STUFF ABOUT US  SEARCH FSM   
Search Terms: 
Search Within:   search tips 
You must log in or register to post.
  Go to page:    
 
 Posted:   May 12, 2013 - 6:12 PM   
 By:   Mike_H   (Member)

Jon's right-- it's in sustained tones in symphonic music where it's the most audible for me. Lexedo, is there a program like that for mac?

Here are two short examples where the noise is very apparent:

The New World (downloaded from iTunes)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22574835/03%20A%20Flame%20Within.wav


Snow White and the Huntsman (downloaded from Amazon)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22574835/01%20-%20Snow%20White.wav

 
 Posted:   May 13, 2013 - 3:07 PM   
 By:   lexedo   (Member)

I ran the 4c12bit.exe on the Mike H posted wav files. (As an FYI, those samples were a bit short amigo. In this regard, we look for watermarks at 0, 0:15, 0:30, 0:45, etc.) Anyway, here is the output from the utility. The "Title1 - Chapter 01" track is from my unmentionable Casino Royale DVD-A, which I used bc I know there are no watermarks. Figured this was cool w everyone bc of BB's birthday the other day.

So, in summary, based on the very short samples posted by MH, no watermarking in those files.

=========================

file: "e:\w24\01 - Snow White.wav"
number_of_channels: 2, samples_per_second: 44100, bits_per_sample: 16

4C 12 Bit: 'X' - not watermarked, '0' - clear, '1' - set

Initialize at 00:00:00.000

time channel 1 channel 2
------------ ------------ ------------
00:00:00.000 XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX

Stop at 00:00:07.664




file: "e:\w24\03 A Flame Within.wav"
number_of_channels: 2, samples_per_second: 44100, bits_per_sample: 16

4C 12 Bit: 'X' - not watermarked, '0' - clear, '1' - set

Initialize at 00:00:00.000

time channel 1 channel 2
------------ ------------ ------------
00:00:00.000 XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX

Stop at 00:00:12.625




file: "e:\w24\Title1 - Chapter 01.wav"
number_of_channels: 2, samples_per_second: 192000, bits_per_sample: 24

4C 12 Bit: 'X' - not watermarked, '0' - clear, '1' - set

Initialize at 00:00:00.000

time channel 1 channel 2
------------ ------------ ------------
00:00:00.000 XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX

Initialize at 00:00:15.000

time channel 1 channel 2
------------ ------------ ------------
00:00:00.000 XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX

Initialize at 00:00:30.000

time channel 1 channel 2
------------ ------------ ------------
00:00:00.000 XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX

Initialize at 00:00:45.000

time channel 1 channel 2
------------ ------------ ------------
00:00:00.000 XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX

Initialize at 00:01:00.000

time channel 1 channel 2
------------ ------------ ------------
00:00:00.000 XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX

Initialize at 00:01:15.000

time channel 1 channel 2
------------ ------------ ------------
00:00:00.000 XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX

Initialize at 00:01:30.000

time channel 1 channel 2
------------ ------------ ------------
00:00:00.000 XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX

Initialize at 00:01:45.000

time channel 1 channel 2
------------ ------------ ------------
00:00:00.000 XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX

Initialize at 00:02:00.000

time channel 1 channel 2
------------ ------------ ------------
00:00:00.000 XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX

Initialize at 00:02:15.000

time channel 1 channel 2
------------ ------------ ------------
00:00:00.000 XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX

Initialize at 00:02:30.000

time channel 1 channel 2
------------ ------------ ------------
00:00:00.000 XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX

Stop at 00:02:38.997


 
 
 Posted:   May 13, 2013 - 3:15 PM   
 By:   Mike_H   (Member)

Thanks Lex. I wonder if it's just plain old compression artifacts after all. The joys of downloads.

 
 
 Posted:   May 13, 2013 - 3:21 PM   
 By:   Jon Lewis   (Member)

Lex, are you saying that the samples need to be at least 15 - 30 seconds to be able to confirm or deny the presence of watermarks via this method?

 
 
 Posted:   May 13, 2013 - 3:22 PM   
 By:   Mike_H   (Member)

Hm. I'll post a longer one from The New World. Gimme a sec..

 
 Posted:   May 13, 2013 - 3:29 PM   
 By:   lexedo   (Member)

Lex, are you saying that the samples need to be at least 15 - 30 seconds to be able to confirm or deny the presence of watermarks via this method?

I figure something at least a minute should cover all the bases gents.

 
 
 Posted:   May 13, 2013 - 3:31 PM   
 By:   Mike_H   (Member)

I'll put a minute up.

 
 
 Posted:   May 13, 2013 - 3:40 PM   
 By:   Mike_H   (Member)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22574835/03%20A%20Flame%20Within%20pt.2.wav


(ps. David if there's any issue with posting a minute of music please delete or let me know. Thanks)

 
 Posted:   May 13, 2013 - 4:11 PM   
 By:   lexedo   (Member)

Below is the output from the newly posted file. Seems clean. You should ping member Marlene Dietrich to gain additional theoretical insights. I will try to do some research on this over the next few weeks bc I haven't looked at this stuff since DVD-A's were the rage.


file: "e:\w24\03 A Flame Within pt.2.wav"
number_of_channels: 2, samples_per_second: 44100, bits_per_sample: 16

4C 12 Bit: 'X' - not watermarked, '0' - clear, '1' - set

Initialize at 00:00:00.000

time channel 1 channel 2
------------ ------------ ------------
00:00:00.000 XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX

Initialize at 00:00:15.002

time channel 1 channel 2
------------ ------------ ------------
00:00:00.000 XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX

Initialize at 00:00:30.004

time channel 1 channel 2
------------ ------------ ------------
00:00:00.000 XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX

Initialize at 00:00:45.006

time channel 1 channel 2
------------ ------------ ------------
00:00:00.000 XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX

Initialize at 00:01:00.009

time channel 1 channel 2
------------ ------------ ------------
00:00:00.000 XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX

Stop at 00:01:04.009


 
 
 Posted:   May 13, 2013 - 5:54 PM   
 By:   Jon Lewis   (Member)

Interesting! So what is this damn ghost haunting the crash cymbals, choirs and pianos of UMG?

 
 
 Posted:   May 13, 2013 - 5:54 PM   
 By:   Jon Lewis   (Member)

Interesting! So what is this damn ghost haunting the crash cymbals, choirs and pianos of UMG?

 
 Posted:   May 14, 2013 - 4:13 AM   
 By:   lexedo   (Member)

Hey fellas, don't get too hung-up on the info I posted. There are likely other ways to run that program (e.g., options for sampling interval, etc.). Also, the tool I used was for specifically checking DVD-As that were watermarked, and I believe the DVD-A standard had a hook for watermarking.

None of which would preclude a company from developing a proprietary watermarking method that couldn't be detected using the DVD-A watermarking standard as the reference.

Technically, this requires further analysis, but I just don't have time right now. In between things I'll try to refine my understanding of the watermarking process in general, and post result back here as appropriate.

(PS: Don't be afraid to post something close to the "exact times" where you feel you are hearing non-musical things.)

 
 
 Posted:   May 14, 2013 - 8:47 AM   
 By:   Jon Lewis   (Member)

Some online research implies the watermark tool used by UMG is (was?) called eFolio; however Matt Montag believes it is a tool developed by a Korean company called MarkAny.

 
 
 Posted:   May 14, 2013 - 9:15 AM   
 By:   Jon Lewis   (Member)

Also: I have been wanting to create a Spotify playlist showing off some of the more blatant tracks, and I still want to, but I haven't found the time yet. I just noticed that Matt Montag already did the same thing. I have not listened to it and assessed it yet myself. And I'll still do one of my own when I have some down time. But here's his link:

http://open.spotify.com/user/ivionday/playlist/3ZbRKMGb8nqXqZziwtC5ZY

 
You must log in or register to post.
  Go to page:    
© 2014 Film Score Monthly. All Rights Reserved.