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 Posted:   May 25, 2013 - 5:48 PM   
 By:   Pedestrian Wolf   (Member)

Musicman416, I understand your argument that sometimes these cues were meant to play in a sequence, but how does breaking them into separate tracks disrupt that sequence? If you separate "Battle of the Snow" into four tracks and have them play consecutively, they don't "sound" any different than if they were joined into one big track. The only difference is that if you break them apart, people who want to make their own personal playlists or suites have the option of doing so. When you're dealing with all of these 90-plus minute score releases, I think it's especially important to give listeners the option of making their own highlights sequence without forcing them into "well if I want to hear x, I guess I have to hear 5 minutes of y too..." decisions.

 
 Posted:   May 25, 2013 - 5:49 PM   
 By:   YOR The Hunter From The Future   (Member)

What you are saying is that if the music segue into another they should be presented this way in the album.

So, in the case of YSH we shall have maybe just 6 or 7 cues of 20, 30 minutes each.

Tracks shall be separeted from one another ONLY when the scenes between them have no music.

Or, in the case of ESB, all the music that features "snow" should be glued togheter too.

Again, it makes no sense.

It is very different when you have a big cue like "Stealing the Enterprise", from "Star Trek 3", or "The Plan", from "Extreme Prejudice", that may be composed of several short recorded cues, but in fact make sense as a whole, with begining-midle-finale kind of development.

And, please, do not bring things that Tohr says around this board. The guy is not even a movie score fan!

 
 Posted:   May 25, 2013 - 6:59 PM   
 By:   Basil Wrathbone   (Member)

Pilate: "There are too many small customers of envy and ambition who think they know better than Douglass Fake."

Young Arius: "I've just come from Website of Intrada, where my favorite tracks are joined together throughout the CD... by Fake's will, segued!

Pilate: "I have heard this. There was great wrong there, deeply regretted. But what Fake did has had its way with him – the CD did not sell well".

Young Arius: "The deed was not just Fake's. I knew him.. well! Long before the madness of segues spread in his blood. Feigelson was responsible too".

Pilate: "Where there are segues, bad taste and clumsiness sometimes happen. But Intrada has deemed to join as many tracks as possible in the future. If Fake the Producer was here, if I may speak in his place, he would tell you to be satisfied with what you get. The grown man knows the soundtrack world he lives in".

Young Arius: Return this CD to Fake. I honor the music too well to listen to his segued version any longer".

Pilate: "Even for the sake of discussion, I cannot protect you from personal abuse if you post this here. You have my warning!"

 
 
 Posted:   May 25, 2013 - 6:59 PM   
 By:   Musicman416   (Member)

Pedestrian Wolf, I follow that. On the other hand, where does it stop? Should every cue be presented separate, just to make sure? That would make for quite the disjointed listen. I don't think you're saying that, but there's a point where a decision has to be made in the presentation of the score. Personally, I think ESB and YSH are both scores that benefit from representing these extended sequences as what they are. I do think that you lose something by having the cues separated, even if they are in order. The momentum is thrown off.

I do fully acknowledge that it's easier to join than separate, though.
It's tough for everybody to win.

What you are saying is that if the music segue into another they should be presented this way in the album.

So, in the case of YSH we shall have maybe just 6 or 7 cues of 20, 30 minutes each.

Tracks shall be separeted from one another ONLY when the scenes between them have no music.


Not necessarily. I do think there are some film segues that just don't work that well musically on an album. In fact, there are times where I think that at least short little cues or stingers are better left out. I go case by case, but very often when these cues are composed as large sequences, I find the music better served when that flow and momentum is preserved.

And where are you getting this 20-30 minute stuff from? That's patently false, just going by the promo. razz

Or, in the case of ESB, all the music that features "snow" should be glued togheter too.

Again, it makes no sense.

It is very different when you have a big cue like "Stealing the Enterprise", from "Star Trek 3", or "The Plan", from "Extreme Prejudice", that may be composed of several short recorded cues, but in fact make sense as a whole, with begining-midle-finale kind of development.


You haven't explained how that's different. The only difference is that "The Battle of Hoth" is a longer sequence than the ones you just mentioned, but all of these are extended sequences that are recorded as shorter cues solely for the purpose of getting good recordings. They were always intended to go together.

What criteria are you selecting for cues to belong together or not belong together?

And, please, do not bring things that Tohr says around this board. The guy is not even a movie score fan!

razz Okay, fine.

 
 Posted:   May 25, 2013 - 7:49 PM   
 By:   Sigerson Holmes   (Member)

What criteria are you selecting for cues to belong together or not belong together?


I think a good guideline would be to respect the manner in which the music was recorded. The recording sessions should be seen as more of an organizing factor than the music's final use in the film, otherwise we can wind up with another controversial product like . . .



I enjoy listening to it for all the additional music, but some regard it to be, you know, a piece of Sith.

 
 
 Posted:   May 25, 2013 - 8:27 PM   
 By:   Musicman416   (Member)

Certainly. I only refer to the film because in the case of YSH, the original compositional intentions as of the recording were preserved. TPM is one of the more extreme examples of post-recording hacking, to be sure.

 
 
 Posted:   May 25, 2013 - 10:49 PM   
 By:   TerraEpon   (Member)

So 3 discs means 2 disc promo plus original album?

Yay, best of both worlds!


Roger said no more than two.
The assumption is, however, there's more music than was on the promo.

 
 Posted:   May 26, 2013 - 6:15 AM   
 By:   GreatGonzo   (Member)

Ah, I see ... still, that was a great album ... sigh ...


So 3 discs means 2 disc promo plus original album?

Yay, best of both worlds!


Roger said no more than two.
The assumption is, however, there's more music than was on the promo.

 
 Posted:   May 26, 2013 - 8:07 AM   
 By:   Frank V   (Member)

Two CDs will be fine. The Intrada promo CD ran 89 minutes. Two CDs can hold about 160 minutes of music so even if they add the original album presentation which ran about 37 minutes they can still add about 30 minutes of alternates.

 
 
 Posted:   May 26, 2013 - 11:34 AM   
 By:   Kev McGann   (Member)

If Bruce Broughton decrees that the cues run together, I gues they will run together.
From the two occasions I met him (first, after a classical piece which he performed at a school just outside London and then at Ubeda at the final night festival party) he came across as a no-nonsense guy who would not suffer fools gladly! The CD will get done the way he wants it.
However, if Intrada can include the MCA LP presentation too, then everyone should be happy, as things like Main Title, The Love Theme and Waxing Elizabeth will be self-contained.

 
 Posted:   May 27, 2013 - 5:07 PM   
 By:   YOR The Hunter From The Future   (Member)

All artists did most of their art following what the person who paid for their work want.

Just watch "The Agony and the Ecstasy" and you will see that.

Artists who did their art without anyone paying for it died of starvation.

Bruce Broughton is not different.

He has every right to produce an album with mammoth cues with tracks that have nothing to do with other merged togheter.

No one said he does not has the right.

It is just that most people simple do not like this kind of approach.

Douglas Fake tried to convince his customers that one big track with all music from the open act of "Conan, the Barbarian" was the way to go.

But most people reject this aproach, YOR remebers it quite vividly. And the 3CD set was released with the cues splited, yes?

YOR does not know ONE person that likes the way mr. Broughton glued all those unreleated cues into one mamoth cue in the YSH promo album.

And YOR just LOVES big cues, like "Stealing the Enterprise", from "ST3", or "The Plan", from "Extreme Prejudice", or "Night Fight", from "Rambo 3".

This tracks are big because it was the way they were composed to be.

But to merge "Flaming Hat Rack-Main Title", "I Never Want To Be Alone-Stained Glass Knightmare-Solving The Crime", "One Last Duel-Window Parting-Curio Vision", "Waxing Elizabeth-Diversionary Tactics" or "Ehtar's Escape-The Final Duel-Final Farewell" just does not make any sense and is quite annoying.

 
 Posted:   May 27, 2013 - 5:15 PM   
 By:   jedizim   (Member)


It is just that most people simple do not like this kind of approach.

YOR does not know ONE person that likes the way mr. Broughton glued all those unreleated cues into one mamoth cue in the YSH promo album.



"Most people"? Awful broad paint brush you are painting with.

Well...now you DO know one. I feel that the YSH promo album was perfectly fine the way it was.

Just because it is not the way you want it...stop assuming that is how EVERYONE wants it.

 
 Posted:   May 27, 2013 - 5:18 PM   
 By:   YOR The Hunter From The Future   (Member)

Preposterous Boy Covered in Blood is mad at YOR!

That's scary stuff!

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 4, 2013 - 2:42 PM   
 By:   propinquity   (Member)

Roger posted an update; it's been delayed until next year.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 4, 2013 - 2:55 PM   
 By:   tarasis   (Member)

Roger posted an update; it's been delayed until next year.

Link: http://www.intrada.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=66625#p66625

 
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