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 Posted:   May 27, 2013 - 9:14 PM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)



Been giving the "military" thing a lot of thought and it seems to me that a case can be made that Star Fleet is closer to a modern day police force as seen in the U.S. and Europe.




Not strong enough. Unless you go to 'Day the Earth Stood Still' territory. As I said, UN peacekeeping forces is a better analogy.

 
 Posted:   May 28, 2013 - 1:45 PM   
 By:   Ron Pulliam   (Member)

The entire franchise SCREAMS nautical military structure.

James Tiberius Kirk "may" have, in a moment of scriptwriting blindness, been given the line "I am a soldier", but no soldier ever rose to the rank of Admiral. Had he been a soldier, he would have risen to the rank of General.

Starfleet is not U.S. Navy or U.S. Coast Guard...in fact, it's not U.S. anything. It's a multi-national entity.


Spoken like a seaman. But when Kirk says 'soldier' you have to remember that the military in 'space' aren't going to be land-based, except perhaps as marines of a sort. They 'fly', they 'sail', they have no 'land' for manoeuvres. That distinction disappears. He therefore uses the term 'soldier' to denote his military status. He can hardly say he's a 'seaman'.



He could, however, have said he was a mariner. Mariners sail on ships. Enterprise is a ship, sailing across the galaxies.
( roll eyes ) ( big grin )

 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2014 - 5:58 PM   
 By:   Adam B.   (Member)

Star Trek II - The Wrath of Khan

When David hears Chekov say the order (to transfer the Genesis torpedo to the Enterprise) came from Admiral James T. Kirk, he roars...

"I knew it! I knew it! All along the military's wanted to get their hands on this!"

 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2014 - 8:13 PM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

Star Trek II - The Wrath of Khan

When David hears Chekov say the order (to transfer the Genesis torpedo to the Enterprise) came from Admiral James T. Kirk, he roars...

"I knew it! I knew it! All along the military's wanted to get their hands on this!"


... and we come full circle to my original post on May 24, 2013 - 4:59 PM! big grin

 
 Posted:   Aug 23, 2014 - 12:18 PM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

Just one more thing, if I may. It may be glaringly obvious, but in no episode of Star Trek did I ever see a member of Starfleet wearing anything even remotely resembling a cap or hat. Deep down, the absence of that finishing touch to suggest a detatchment from totalitarian military involvement gave the crew of U.S.S Enterprise more of a civic aura. It could be that the actors looked ridiculous if they first tried to use that approach in TOS. Whether intentional or not, I think Roddenberry's future elite are complimented first and foremost as deeply humanitarian in makeup and also, their emotional intelligence goes beyond the need for strictly enforced military stereotypes - their co-operation and mutual dependence transcends all of that.

 
 Posted:   Aug 23, 2014 - 1:35 PM   
 By:   LeHah   (Member)

I think this is a matter of intent versus result.

Roddenberry didn't want Starfleet to be military, or even a peace-keeping force (like the Jedi). He was firmly footed in the idea that they were explorers who could defend themselves if need be.

And while I won't put all the blame on him, Nick Meyer's costume change in ST2 to be more Napolean-era looking, as well as the level of violence sort of changed things. I'm not saying it's better or worse, simply that it's changed.

As Trek went on, it became more and more about phaser fights and weaponology. In a lot of ways, TNG was the last show that was in the spirit of Roddenberry's intentions. I loved DS9 but it's major arcs were written to run afoul of Roddenberry's ideals, while Voyager was so often running across the Borg or whatever that they were wasting more ammunition than the movie Commando. Enterprise, which I enjoyed, tried to go back to that whole spirit of exploration... before having an entire season in analogy to the World Trade Center tragedy.

And let's face it, blowing things up in movies is fun. Most people liked First Contact more than Insurrection - and one is much more military than the other, both in tone and in writing language.

So is it meant to be? No. But it's what it's ended up as.

And as to Starfleet not having caps? Abrams changed that in the last installment, Kirk and Spock both wear Starfleet's version of the UN Peacekeeper uniform.

 
 Posted:   Aug 23, 2014 - 2:05 PM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

I guess that tells you how many times I've seen the last instalment? But now that you mention it, I do recall seeing door guards in TMP wearing some sort of hardhat - very notably when Spock transfers over to Enterprise from the vulcan shuttle. Why would you need heavies guarding doorways on a ship surrounded by vacuum? The very idea of employing meatheads who do nothing but waste their time standing to attention over nothing is, perhaps, a plothole Wise didn't see coming.

 
 Posted:   Aug 24, 2014 - 10:56 AM   
 By:   Stefancos   (Member)

Starfleet is and has always been military. They use naval ranks, and are basically the navy in space rather then NASA.

Didnt Roddenberry come up with this " Starfleet isnt Military" stuff only after the show became big with the hippie crowd?

 
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