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 Posted:   Jun 25, 2013 - 2:44 PM   
 By:   Penelope Pineapple   (Member)

roll eyes And it takes roll eyes a carbon-unit roll eyes equally full of itself to allegedly recognize it in anyone else.

So since that's all you have to offer, PP, take a flamin' hike if it ain't to your liking and stay amongst the elevated Olympians more like your own obviously emaciated yet thoroughly Everest self. roll eyesroll eyesroll eyes


I've got plenty more to offer but, frankly, what's the point? Clearly, those much more "educated" than myself have already made their decrees that Hip-Hop is in no way a legitamte art form; that my "opinion" that EPMD, Public Enemy, De La Soul, BDP, Geto Boys, et al, are as just as great as Beethoven, Goldsmith, or [insert your idea of "superior" music here]. Clearly, my passion for Golden Age Hip-Hop has no place alongside my passion for film scores. I mean, how is it even possible that I can put Jerry Goldsmith and Gang Starr in the same playlist at a party?!? Madness!

Save for a few in this thread (kudos to Francis, Josh Mitchell, and LeHah with his "get off my lawn" observation), most of the comments seem to be from those who've never bothered to actually listen to what it is they're trashing. If you don't like Hip-Hop, that's fine. But I do take issue with the notion that the entire genre is not an "art form" unto itself, that the views and observations espoused by Hip-hop artists aren't worth considering, that somehow Genre X is inherently superior because, well, "education!" That view serves only to denegrate and delegitimize an entire culture.

 
 Posted:   Jun 25, 2013 - 3:55 PM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)

Well we could post more youtube vids of good hip hop/rap, but it's like Penelope says, you need to listen to it and you need to want to take an interest; you'd have to force me to listen to country music. wink

Regarding rap, for those interested, there is a wide range of styles, not just in the 'rap', the lyrics themselves, but also in the instrumentals that people tend to overlook. I've always been drawn to good storytelling and as far as rap goes I can find that both in gangsta 'gang' rappers (Ice Cube, Cypress Hill), as well as the more 'responsible' rappers (Public Enemy, Jurassic 5). Then you have the 'party' rappers like Puff Daddy, Grandmaster Flash and there is also a sub genre of clownish rappers (Busta Rhymes, Flavor Flav, ODB) who are the court jesters of rap. And yes, parental advisory is applicable for all of these names, but that's personally what I appreciate about it, the candidness and just speaking what's on your mind and not sugarcoat it.

As for the instrumentals, yes, some of them even sample our beloved scores wink but don't think in the slightest that it's easy to sample anything and make it sound good, it takes good producing to turn something in a great instrumental, it's not just a beat you rap too. So many great producers; RZA, Peter Rock, DJ Premier, DJ Muggs, Bomb Squad, DJ Shadow, ...

I discovered a lot of rap via vinyl records, I used to love mixing instrumentals/accapellas with a mixing board and two turntable setup and could spend hours making mixtapes. But the best albums are the ones you listen to and that connect because of the sound and the world they create. For me Public Enemy's "Muse Sick-n-Hour Mess Age" & "There's A Poison Going on", Wu-Tang Clan's "36 Chambers", Cypress Hill's "Temples of Boom', Mobb Deep's "Infamous", GZA's "Liquid Swords", Big Punisher's "Capital Punishment", the aforementioned Killah Priest's "Heavy Mental", Busta Rhymes' "When Disaster Strikes", Jurassic 5's "Feedback", Alkaholiks' Coast II Coast; Yes I was a teen in the 90s smile

There's a lot of rappers or producers that don't interest me; Snoop Dogg, Dre, 2Pac, Redman, Eminem, Kanye West ... Probably a bigger list than the ones I do like but I will say that of the recent rap I haven't been keeping up with it as much as I used to. Still enjoy Public Enemy's releases as well as a lot of the Wu stuff, but where I'd be getting the vinyl the week the album dropped, now I might stumble on news of a release a month or two later on the net; rap has changed a lot since digital took over (as did many of the other genres). Some names I only discover as years pass by they put out something new.

But safe to say that I still very much enjoy rap and all it takes is putting on a familiar beat or track to get me right back into the mood.

 
 Posted:   Jun 25, 2013 - 5:04 PM   
 By:   random guy   (Member)

this site really needs a like button. would recommend you check out Gift of Gab and A Tribe Called Quest. Gab is more a storyteller than a rapper but that's what I love about him. very old school guy. and yeah Kanye maybe be a below average rapper, but he's a brilliant producer. always thinks outside the box with his beats. he's not on the same level as Timberland or Dre but he's up there

you're not missing much by not keeping up to be honest. unless you're into nursery rhymes with 808 kicks

 
 Posted:   Jun 26, 2013 - 7:20 AM   
 By:   Penelope Pineapple   (Member)

Well we could post more youtube vids of good hip hop/rap, but it's like Penelope says, you need to listen to it and you need to want to take an interest; you'd have to force me to listen to country music. wink

Regarding rap, for those interested, there is a wide range of styles, not just in the 'rap', the lyrics themselves, but also in the instrumentals that people tend to overlook. I've always been drawn to good storytelling and as far as rap goes I can find that both in gangsta 'gang' rappers (Ice Cube, Cypress Hill), as well as the more 'responsible' rappers (Public Enemy, Jurassic 5). Then you have the 'party' rappers like Puff Daddy, Grandmaster Flash and there is also a sub genre of clownish rappers (Busta Rhymes, Flavor Flav, ODB) who are the court jesters of rap. And yes, parental advisory is applicable for all of these names, but that's personally what I appreciate about it, the candidness and just speaking what's on your mind and not sugarcoat it.

As for the instrumentals, yes, some of them even sample our beloved scores wink but don't think in the slightest that it's easy to sample anything and make it sound good, it takes good producing to turn something in a great instrumental, it's not just a beat you rap too. So many great producers; RZA, Peter Rock, DJ Premier, DJ Muggs, Bomb Squad, DJ Shadow, ...

I discovered a lot of rap via vinyl records, I used to love mixing instrumentals/accapellas with a mixing board and two turntable setup and could spend hours making mixtapes. But the best albums are the ones you listen to and that connect because of the sound and the world they create. For me Public Enemy's "Muse Sick-n-Hour Mess Age" & "There's A Poison Going on", Wu-Tang Clan's "36 Chambers", Cypress Hill's "Temples of Boom', Mobb Deep's "Infamous", GZA's "Liquid Swords", Big Punisher's "Capital Punishment", the aforementioned Killah Priest's "Heavy Mental", Busta Rhymes' "When Disaster Strikes", Jurassic 5's "Feedback", Alkaholiks' Coast II Coast; Yes I was a teen in the 90s smile

There's a lot of rappers or producers that don't interest me; Snoop Dogg, Dre, 2Pac, Redman, Eminem, Kanye West ... Probably a bigger list than the ones I do like but I will say that of the recent rap I haven't been keeping up with it as much as I used to. Still enjoy Public Enemy's releases as well as a lot of the Wu stuff, but where I'd be getting the vinyl the week the album dropped, now I might stumble on news of a release a month or two later on the net; rap has changed a lot since digital took over (as did many of the other genres). Some names I only discover as years pass by they put out something new.

But safe to say that I still very much enjoy rap and all it takes is putting on a familiar beat or track to get me right back into the mood.


Reading this was like taking a stroll down memory lane! We could probably talk all day about this! Pete Rock! Muggs! The Bomb Squad! Ahh....great stuff! You're absolutley correct about the production aspect--a great sample is worthless without a producer that can make something of it. I used to buy Hip-Hop albums just to hear the producers work, even for artists I didn't particularly care for.

It sounds like you were still listenening to it all when I was just starting to move on.... For the most part, I stopped listening to new Hip-Hop around '93/'94 (the end of the Golden Age). I love 2Pac's early albums (I remember when the CDs were released in their 12" long boxes; I'd put them up in my room!) Once he moved to Death Row, though...I just couldn't get into that "sound." I love Redman's first LP...Erick Sermon's production is top notch (another favorite producer). There is a boutique record label, Traffic Entertainment, that has been re-releasing old Hip-Hop albums. They've been doing a pretty good job remastering, including new liner notes, as well as bonus tracks such as instrumentals, a cappellas, remixes, etc. Some of the sets are even multiple disc: Pete Rock & CL Smooth, Jungle Brothers, Boogie Down Productions, to name a few. You may be interested to see what they've got. (And they also have been re-releasing on vinyl, if that's your thing.)

 
 Posted:   Jun 26, 2013 - 7:26 AM   
 By:   Penelope Pineapple   (Member)

this site really needs a like button. would recommend you check out Gift of Gab and A Tribe Called Quest. Gab is more a storyteller than a rapper but that's what I love about him. very old school guy. and yeah Kanye maybe be a below average rapper, but he's a brilliant producer. always thinks outside the box with his beats. he's not on the same level as Timberland or Dre but he's up there

you're not missing much by not keeping up to be honest. unless you're into nursery rhymes with 808 kicks


Have you seen the Tribe documentary, BEATS, RHYMES, & LIFE? It's top notch. I had high expectations for it and didn't expect it to meet them but by the time the opening credits began to roll, it was clear that my lid was about to be blown. Michael Rapaport needs to do an entire, Ken Burns-like series and all of Hip-Hop. Ice-T also made one, THE ART OF RAP, which, while not quite as solid as BEATS, is still a solid entry and includes MCs from the dawn of Hip-Hop until now. I'd love to see him create a companion doc that focuses on DJs.

(Oh, and I'll check out Gift of Gab!)

 
 Posted:   Jun 26, 2013 - 3:21 PM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)


Reading this was like taking a stroll down memory lane! We could probably talk all day about this! Pete Rock! Muggs! The Bomb Squad! Ahh....great stuff! You're absolutley correct about the production aspect--a great sample is worthless without a producer that can make something of it. I used to buy Hip-Hop albums just to hear the producers work, even for artists I didn't particularly care for


Yup, but as you know rap/hip hop has so many collabos (before they started to feel like leftovers) you could discover good cuts on various artists albums or B-side material. I found myself getting a lot of MLPs/EPs that in all honesty were more suited for a quick appearance in a mix than something I'd listen to a lot. But if a beat is well produced, you kinda forgive some of the weaker rappers that might feature on it and just roll with it smile


It sounds like you were still listenening to it all when I was just starting to move on.... For the most part, I stopped listening to new Hip-Hop around '93/'94 (the end of the Golden Age).


Yes, I was mainly into rock/metal before a friend of mine turned me on to rap with Public Enemy, Cypress Hill and most importantly Wu-tang (which I at one point owned all releases, solo, side-project, instrumental, ...) of. I discovered a lot of the West Coast stuff while building my collection and loved to go to cities and browse through record shops to find albums. Did you go to the festivals or see anyone live? I saw Public Enemy, Beastie Boys, Kid Koala, Method Man & Redman, Wu-tang Clan (sans ODB, after he died), Cypress Hill, Cappadonna, GZA, ... but the most hectic and energetic performance I saw was Ice Cube, he really gave it all in a small venue and it was crazy smile

P.S. I'll check out those remastered editions, I got rid of most of my vinyl because I stopped doing the turntables setup and it was collecting dust. Still hold on to a select collection of classic albums on CD smile

@Penelope, I caught bits of that Ice-T docu when he had Eminem on there, looked ok, will have to look for this show.

 
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