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This is a comments thread about FSM CD: Ben-Hur
 
 Posted:   Mar 24, 2013 - 9:03 AM   
 By:   Bob Bryden   (Member)


To put this in perspective, you also told us the Gerhardt Classic Film Scores series sounded much better in the relatively muddy surround-sound CDs than in the excellent newer edition.


And I stand by what I said. A simple a/b reveals that the Gerhardt's have been re-eq'd extensively and I much prefer the purity of the original job. It's not as glamorous but sounds truer.





How can you talk about purity of sound and then maintain you prefer the wholly synthetic surround-sound Classic Film Scores to the newer releases that sound much closer to the LPs? Doesn't make sense.


I A/B'd with the albums as well. The only 'synthetic' thing about the original cd releases IS the surround sound - if you want to mention it. Just leave the effect off. The original cd's are more or less identical to the lp's. They sound a little 'flatter' but that's because they haven't been tampered with.


I reiterate - the new cd releases have been seriously retouched sonically. They've been dramatically 'enhanced' and I for one don't like it.

The new releases are a disaster - I bought three of them - did the comparisons - and stopped.

And let's face it - ultimately it comes down to taste and what you prefer soundwise.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 23, 2014 - 9:39 PM   
 By:   Grog   (Member)

I have an issue with this release and you can agree or not, I sit here unaffected.
For 40 years, this has been my favourite film. Not just for the picture presentation but assuredly for the score Mr Roza provided.
As to the score, I know every inkling of tempo, cadence and synapse utilized. I know the second the french horns and trumpets cut in, out and pause, I know every drum beat and the seconds between them. I know when the bloody triangle is used.
This VERSION of such an acclaimed piece, does not.
This sounds like nit-picking, I suppose it is. But when you wish to close your eyes and hear exactly the score you fell in love with, you will not do so here.
First, it is too fast, the cadence is wrong. I thought perhaps I was listening to it at 45 rpm vs 331/3 rpm for example.
Second, the tempo is varied,, no way Miklos would let that happen.
No, sorry, I'll pass.
The idea of the extras is nice but if they can't get the basics right, all the extras won't matter.

Grog

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 23, 2014 - 9:40 PM   
 By:   Grog   (Member)

I have an issue with this release and you can agree or not, I sit here unaffected.
For 40 years, this has been my favourite film. Not just for the picture presentation but assuredly for the score Mr Roza provided.
As to the score, I know every inkling of tempo, cadence and synapse utilized. I know the second the french horns and trumpets cut in, out and pause, I know every drum beat and the seconds between them. I know when the bloody triangle is used.
This VERSION of such an acclaimed piece, does not.
This sounds like nit-picking, I suppose it is. But when you wish to close your eyes and hear exactly the score you fell in love with, you will not do so here.
First, it is too fast, the cadence is wrong. I thought perhaps I was listening to it at 45 rpm vs 331/3 rpm for example.
Second, the tempo is varied,, no way Miklos would let that happen.
No, sorry, I'll pass.
The idea of the extras is nice but if they can't get the basics right, all the extras won't matter.

Grog

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 23, 2014 - 10:24 PM   
 By:   pp312   (Member)

This is an interesting, provocative post (twice). I wish I understood it better, because I know the score pretty well too and I don't hear these timing oddities at all. Maybe if you provided specific examples...a specific track where the timing differs from previous versions. After all, you're not stating an opinion in the sense of a conductor's interpretation, but claiming a verifiable fact.

 
 Posted:   Jan 23, 2014 - 10:29 PM   
 By:   Basil Wrathbone   (Member)

I have an issue with this release and you can agree or not, I sit here unaffected.
For 40 years, this has been my favourite film. Not just for the picture presentation but assuredly for the score Mr Roza provided.
As to the score, I know every inkling of tempo, cadence and synapse utilized. I know the second the french horns and trumpets cut in, out and pause, I know every drum beat and the seconds between them. I know when the bloody triangle is used.
This VERSION of such an acclaimed piece, does not.
This sounds like nit-picking, I suppose it is. But when you wish to close your eyes and hear exactly the score you fell in love with, you will not do so here.
First, it is too fast, the cadence is wrong. I thought perhaps I was listening to it at 45 rpm vs 331/3 rpm for example.
Second, the tempo is varied,, no way Miklos would let that happen.
No, sorry, I'll pass.
The idea of the extras is nice but if they can't get the basics right, all the extras won't matter.

Grog




You say "I'll pass" which suggests you don't have it and have been judging from clips.
Sounds like you must have been listening to clips of the "extra" albums in the set, as opposed to the original soundtrack discs.
If not, you're talking gibberish.

 
 Posted:   Jan 24, 2014 - 1:13 AM   
 By:   Chris Rimmer   (Member)

I have an issue with this release and you can agree or not, I sit here unaffected.
For 40 years, this has been my favourite film. Not just for the picture presentation but assuredly for the score Mr Roza provided.
As to the score, I know every inkling of tempo, cadence and synapse utilized. I know the second the french horns and trumpets cut in, out and pause, I know every drum beat and the seconds between them. I know when the bloody triangle is used.
This VERSION of such an acclaimed piece, does not.
This sounds like nit-picking, I suppose it is. But when you wish to close your eyes and hear exactly the score you fell in love with, you will not do so here.
First, it is too fast, the cadence is wrong. I thought perhaps I was listening to it at 45 rpm vs 331/3 rpm for example.
Second, the tempo is varied,, no way Miklos would let that happen.
No, sorry, I'll pass.
The idea of the extras is nice but if they can't get the basics right, all the extras won't matter.

Grog


God knows what he's listening to, but it certainly ain't FSM's release of Ben Hur.

Which is just about perfect.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 24, 2014 - 4:49 AM   
 By:   finder4545   (Member)

I have an issue with this release and you can agree or not, I sit here unaffected.
For 40 years, ETC. ETC.

God knows what he's listening to, but it certainly ain't FSM's release of Ben Hur.
Which is just about perfect.


Yes, it must be so: "Grog" listened to some distorted part of music on Youtube and extended his analysis to the monumental library of original music put on discs. Otherwise he must be an alien deserving a straitjacket.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 24, 2014 - 5:10 AM   
 By:   Matt S.   (Member)

I have an issue with this release and you can agree or not, I sit here unaffected.
For 40 years, this has been my favourite film. Not just for the picture presentation but assuredly for the score Mr Roza provided.
As to the score, I know every inkling of tempo, cadence and synapse utilized. I know the second the french horns and trumpets cut in, out and pause, I know every drum beat and the seconds between them. I know when the bloody triangle is used.


Grog


You know every last detail about the music except how to properly spell the composer's name. Well done.

Thank you for creating a special account today to tell us this.

 
 Posted:   Jan 24, 2014 - 6:03 AM   
 By:   Thomas   (Member)

This may have been asked before, but as 'Ben-Hur' is still available, have more copies been pressed in excess of the original run? I only query this as reading earlier in this thread when it was released (Feb 2012), people were assuming the 2000 copies would be gone pronto.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 24, 2014 - 6:13 AM   
 By:   Matt S.   (Member)

This may have been asked before, but as 'Ben-Hur' is still available, have more copies been pressed in excess of the original run? I only query this as reading earlier in this thread when it was released (Feb 2012), people were assuming the 2000 copies would be gone pronto.

The original 2000 did sell out pretty quickly, and Lukas decided to press another batch (I don't remember if it was another 2000 or another quantity.) If you go back and read through the thread you'll see it caused a bit of commotion among some who felt they were "tricked" into buying the first run. Quite ridiculous.

 
 Posted:   Jan 24, 2014 - 11:00 AM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

Do you ever, without paranoia, wonder about some posts as 'plants'?

Y'know, could it be that a hacker has a way to draw certain posters to a thread for the sake of infiltrating the account for spam or trojans or the like?

Or industrial expionage? Some rival bootlegger who wants to nobble a release of his rivals?

I get those feelings sometimes. I consult my anti-virals and firewalls on those occasions. It's comforting.



I have an issue with this release and you can agree or not, I sit here unaffected.
For 40 years, this has been my favourite film. Not just for the picture presentation but assuredly for the score Mr Roza provided.


Well, if you're unaffected, you've clearly won the argument from the start. Stab the fellow, then tell him to defend himself. You'll show us all, eh? We, in return for your exalted enlightenment, what can WE give YOU? I know ... we'll teach you to spell his name right. That'll stand you in good stead.


As to the score, I know every inkling of tempo, cadence and synapse utilized. I know the second the french horns and trumpets cut in, out and pause, I know every drum beat and the seconds between them. I know when the bloody triangle is used.
This VERSION of such an acclaimed piece, does not.


Cock-a-doodle-doo. But mostly minus the '-a-doodle-doo' bit.


This sounds like nit-picking, I suppose it is. But when you wish to close your eyes and hear exactly the score you fell in love with, you will not do so here.
First, it is too fast, the cadence is wrong. I thought perhaps I was listening to it at 45 rpm vs 331/3 rpm for example.


Since you haven't actually GOT it, and it's limited edition, you haven't heard it. You've heard MP3s off the nettie. OR ... you've gained your extensive knowledge of the score from listening over and over again to the same source which has a wrong transfer rate .... maybe a VHS?

'Look at all the soldiers in the passing-out parade Joe. They're all out of step except our Johnnie. Aren't you proud?'




Second, the tempo is varied, no way Miklos would let that happen.
No, sorry, I'll pass.


The tempo is exactly as it should be and on the OST. Have you been listening to the alternative takes? You've been listening to the alternative takes, haven't you? Go on, you have, haven't you?

Are you a musician? Do you know how many different tempi there are in a score this length anyway?


The idea of the extras is nice but if they can't get the basics right, all the extras won't matter.

Oh, well, since Rozsa cut and re-edited much of the film score for the final cut, those 'extras' including the LPs contain a lot of music that was chopped from the film, so I think they'll matter.


D'ye know, my Anti-Viral search has just opened of its own accord. Hopefully a coincidence.



Who's paying you?

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 24, 2014 - 11:54 AM   
 By:   mild_cigar   (Member)

The idea of the extras is nice but if they can't get the basics right, all the extras won't matter.Grog

Are you F**king insane, perhaps?

 
 Posted:   Jan 24, 2014 - 10:30 PM   
 By:   Dana Wilcox   (Member)

I have an issue with this release and you can agree or not, I sit here unaffected.
For 40 years, this has been my favourite film. Not just for the picture presentation but assuredly for the score Mr Roza provided.
As to the score, I know every inkling of tempo, cadence and synapse utilized. I know the second the french horns and trumpets cut in, out and pause, I know every drum beat and the seconds between them. I know when the bloody triangle is used.
This VERSION of such an acclaimed piece, does not.
This sounds like nit-picking, I suppose it is. But when you wish to close your eyes and hear exactly the score you fell in love with, you will not do so here.
First, it is too fast, the cadence is wrong. I thought perhaps I was listening to it at 45 rpm vs 331/3 rpm for example.
Second, the tempo is varied,, no way Miklos would let that happen.
No, sorry, I'll pass.
The idea of the extras is nice but if they can't get the basics right, all the extras won't matter.

Grog


Portrait of a troll, having a good laugh under the bridge at the furor he's caused. Attention must not be paid.

 
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