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 Posted:   Dec 21, 2017 - 7:20 AM   
 By:   Stefan Schlegel   (Member)

Stefan, have you heard anything further from the Brandeis archivist?

I have now finally received an answer from the Brandeis archivist. So there are only 6 tracks on these 78rpm discs, but at least they are music only:

"The records are only music, but there is only one track on each record, thus I assume that it is not the film in its entirety. As it is only music, there are copyright concerns and we are not able to make a copy for you."

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 21, 2017 - 4:33 PM   
 By:   PFK   (Member)

Stefan, have you heard anything further from the Brandeis archivist?

I have now finally received an answer from the Brandeis archivist. So there are only 6 tracks on these 78rpm discs, but at least they are music only:

"The records are only music, but there is only one track on each record, thus I assume that it is not the film in its entirety. As it is only music, there are copyright concerns and we are not able to make a copy for you."




Very interesting. We don't know the total time, but it could be from 15 minutes to 30 minutes. Hard to tell. Perhaps a label might be interested? Any ideas?

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 21, 2017 - 9:53 PM   
 By:   cody1949   (Member)

I would love to see a label tackle this score, but how do you get beyond the legal technicality concerns of Brandeis University? What made it easier for that university in Texas to allow Aaron Copland's score to THE HEIRESS to be issued on CD ?

 
 Posted:   Dec 22, 2017 - 2:21 AM   
 By:   Doug Raynes   (Member)



Do the video versions have the original RKO titles or has Universal replaced them? My print is from the year of release and has RKO logo, titles and leaders.


The DVD which I have as part of the "An American Icon: John Wayne" 5 film set, does have the original RKO logo, which looks rather good with "in Cinemascope" added.

I must admit I've never managed to watch it all the way. The trailer is good though, as it's only 3 minutes; "Titanic in Scope!", "Titanic in Spectacle!", "Titanic in Action!" Titanic being an unfortunate adjective in retrospect!

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 22, 2017 - 2:53 AM   
 By:   Stefan Schlegel   (Member)

I would love to see a label tackle this score, but how do you get beyond the legal technicality concerns of Brandeis University? What made it easier for that university in Texas to allow Aaron Copland's score to THE HEIRESS to be issued on CD ?

THE HEIRESS was Paramount - so Intrada in that case certainly dealt with Paramount and got the license from them.
THE CONQUEROR was an RKO picture and the RKO film library is now mostly owned by Warner/Turner Entertainment. So I don´t see the problem with the Brandeis University, but it is Warner/Turner who would have to give their permission that the 78rpm discs from the University can be used for CD purposes and it might of course also be expensive (or too expensive?) to get a license from them. The Brandeis archivist told me that they would be cooperative provided that a soundtrack label has cleared up all legal problems in advance or got a license from the actual copyright owner to release the music on CD.
So if Intrada is really interested, they should talk with Warner/Turner about this and if they get the rights from them then they could probably also get the material from the University. For any other label which doesn´t have a good working relationship with Warner/Turner it makes of course no sense.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 22, 2017 - 6:53 AM   
 By:   cody1949   (Member)

I would love to see a label tackle this score, but how do you get beyond the legal technicality concerns of Brandeis University? What made it easier for that university in Texas to allow Aaron Copland's score to THE HEIRESS to be issued on CD ?

THE HEIRESS was Paramount - so Intrada in that case certainly dealt with Paramount and got the license from them.
THE CONQUEROR was an RKO picture and the RKO film library is now mostly owned by Warner/Turner Entertainment. So I don´t see the problem with the Brandeis University, but it is Warner/Turner who would have to give their permission that the 78rpm discs from the University can be used for CD purposes and it might of course also be expensive (or too expensive?) to get a license from them. The Brandeis archivist told me that they would be cooperative provided that a soundtrack label has cleared up all legal problems in advance or got a license from the actual copyright owner to release the music on CD.
So if Intrada is really interested, they should talk with Warner/Turner about this and if they get the rights from them then they could probably also get the material from the University. For any other label which doesn´t have a good working relationship with Warner/Turner it makes of course no sense.


Thank you Stefan for your insightful comments.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 22, 2017 - 6:59 AM   
 By:   cody1949   (Member)

One thing though Stefan is that Howard Hughes personally owned THE CONQUEROR and it eventually came under the control of Universal who released it on DVD as they did with SCARFACE [1932] and THE OUTLAW [ 1943].

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 22, 2017 - 7:21 AM   
 By:   Stefan Schlegel   (Member)

One thing though Stefan is that Howard Hughes personally owned THE CONQUEROR and it eventually came under the control of Universal who released it on DVD as they did with SCARFACE [1932] and THE OUTLAW [ 1943].

Thanks Cody for the info about Universal which I didn´t know, but I can also now see it on the IMDB page that Universal acquired the rights for THE CONQUEROR in 1979:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049092/trivia

This means that Intrada would have to deal with Universal which makes things probably even more complicated (and even more costly!).

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 22, 2017 - 5:40 PM   
 By:   PFK   (Member)

One thing though Stefan is that Howard Hughes personally owned THE CONQUEROR and it eventually came under the control of Universal who released it on DVD as they did with SCARFACE [1932] and THE OUTLAW [ 1943].

Thanks Cody for the info about Universal which I didn´t know, but I can also now see it on the IMDB page that Universal acquired the rights for THE CONQUEROR in 1979:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049092/trivia

This means that Intrada would have to deal with Universal which makes things probably even more complicated (and even more costly!).




Our hope is a label, like Intrada, will work with Universal etc. And we don't know how long the music is, condition of the discs etc. Still, we can always hope ......

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 31, 2017 - 10:00 AM   
 By:   Stefan Schlegel   (Member)

To my own surprise, I have just received a detailed list of all the tracks which are contained on those 6 78rpm discs stored at the Brandeis University. As you can see, the people there are really very nice and helpful. So we now know that at least about 15 minutes of original music by Young have been preserved on these records:

"We have some more information about the recordings that might be useful to you. After studying the score and the six recordings more closely, we were able to identify the titles of all but one of the recordings we have in our collection. Here are the titles and lengths of each recording:

Prelude (2:41)
Greater Inspiration (3:02)
Veil Dance (1:56 )
Mask Dance (1:13)
Juggler Act (1:36 )
Village Dance (0:22)
Dancing Girls. Dance #1 (1:14)
Untitled (1:16)
Dance #3 (Garland Dance) (0:56)
Dancing Girls. Dance #2 (1:38)

Our recordings contain music only. As you can see, the recordings amount to about 14 minutes of music, which appears to be a small portion of the entire score."

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 31, 2017 - 3:17 PM   
 By:   PFK   (Member)

To my own surprise, I have just received a detailed list of all the tracks which are contained on those 6 78rpm discs stored at the Brandeis University. As you can see, the people there are really very nice and helpful. So we now know that at least about 15 minutes of original music by Young have been preserved on these records:

"We have some more information about the recordings that might be useful to you. After studying the score and the six recordings more closely, we were able to identify the titles of all but one of the recordings we have in our collection. Here are the titles and lengths of each recording:

Prelude (2:41)
Greater Inspiration (3:02)
Veil Dance (1:56 )
Mask Dance (1:13)
Juggler Act (1:36 )
Village Dance (0:22)
Dancing Girls. Dance #1 (1:14)
Untitled (1:16)
Dance #3 (Garland Dance) (0:56)
Dancing Girls. Dance #2 (1:38)

Our recordings contain music only. As you can see, the recordings amount to about 14 minutes of music, which appears to be a small portion of the entire score."





I'm surprised Brandeis spent the time supplying the information. That was very nice of them.

I'm very disappointed though. The music is on-screen source music, mostly dances. Oh well .... Thanks for your time and effort Stefan.

 
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