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| This is a comments thread about Blog Post: Restoring LEGEND - An Aisle Seat Special by Andy Dursin |
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Posted: |
Jun 26, 2011 - 12:35 PM
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By: |
Cooper
(Member)
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Thanks for the write-up (and re-print of the de Lauzirika interview), Andy! I don't have the HD disc yet, but dusted off my dvd in anticipation. I couldn't remember whether the temp-tracked scenes were originally scored...and in-rewatching the DC, I had a hard time believing that whole sequence wouldn't play better without any music at all (or at least the temp cues); a seamlessly branched "Silence is Golden" option would let us second guess the second guessing on Scott's and Goldsmith's original decision nothing was needed there, but I guess that's lacking on the Blu-ray... The Souster track is pretty goofy in context--no matter how well it might've worked from whence it originally came--seeming to announce the dancing Knights of the Round Table from Python's Holy Grail are about to Enter Stage Right and help Jack slapstick the Ogre-ish dude to into submission... And Pyscho II is great, of course, but familiarity breeds contempt from its being so out of place. Too bad they couldn't "spot commission" Goldsmith to come in and do something for those scenes. But then it's also too bad he couldn't come back and rescore everything that changed drastically in the editing. Dreams need no bounds, eh?
By the way, did you get the impression Scott seemed a little down on the Director's Cut in that text preface of his on the Blu-ray (which some posted to the forums), offering it up as "...an archival curiosity for fans..."? Maybe he's been surfing message boards, sampling the reaction to his 113 minute cut over the years...and been surprised at so many expressions of contempt for the DC with the Goldsmith score... Hence, a seeming desire to temper expectations for it? It's not much to go on, but his is a pretty measured comment after all the fanfare and gushing about the re-discovered Director's Cut for the dvd release.
Ultimate Edition, Ultimate Vindication! ...is what it feels like after that initial shock in '85 when LEGEND got the pointy end of a Unicorn from the studio, only to have it restored in HD in 2011. Looking forward to its debut on Blu.
--Coop
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Posted: |
Jun 26, 2011 - 12:49 PM
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MikeP
(Member)
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Legend, in any form, was destined to be a bad film. The elements and passion and craftsmanship for a lovely fairy-tale adventure are there...but...it was just destined to fail. Even if Scott and Hjortsberg had stayed with the original screenplay, what they had just wasn't good. It was a darker take, yes, but was kinda like a Frank Miller comic: grim and dark and pushing boundaries and shock values just for the sake of being DARK, without being good. The original script ( which can still be found with some Googling) and the shooting script just were not good. So one of the most gorgeous movies ever, some of the most breathtaking visuals, set designs, make-ups, all go to to service an interesting but weak script. It is close...watching the movie you can see it needed another draft or two to make it come to life.
So for me Legend is brilliantly fascinating to watch to see the tremendous effort involved, the technical craft is top notch really. So, as much as I love both scores, and I do love them both, neither one saves the movie because the narrative itself needed more work. both scores accent the movie in different ways.
Perhaps is the original draft and been filmed TD's score may have worked better.
Then again, if JG had never been hired at all and TD's score was the only score the film ever had...there wouldn't be the hue and cry. It would have been just another color in Scott's canvas.
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Posted: |
Jun 26, 2011 - 10:07 PM
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By: |
AndyDursin
(Member)
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TBy the way, did you get the impression Scott seemed a little down on the Director's Cut in that text preface of his on the Blu-ray (which some posted to the forums), offering it up as "...an archival curiosity for fans..."? Maybe he's been surfing message boards, sampling the reaction to his 113 minute cut over the years...and been surprised at so many expressions of contempt for the DC with the Goldsmith score... Hence, a seeming desire to temper expectations for it? It's not much to go on, but his is a pretty measured comment after all the fanfare and gushing about the re-discovered Director's Cut for the dvd release.
Ultimate Edition, Ultimate Vindication! ...is what it feels like after that initial shock in '85 when LEGEND got the pointy end of a Unicorn from the studio, only to have it restored in HD in 2011. Looking forward to its debut on Blu.
--Coop
Coop thanks for the comments, I appreciate them.
I do get the feeling Scott for whatever reason seems tempered in his comments there -- which is equally odd because the TRANSFER on the DC, as much as he puts it down, is actually magnificent and is superior the US version! Yes the colors might be more accurate on the theatrical cut, but the actual mastering itself is superior on the DC, yet Scott puts it down as this "archival curiosity." Who knows, maybe every day you'd get a different answer from him!
Scott is an enigma to me at times -- not just with this movie, but also Blade Runner (the whole "is
Deckard a replicant" angle which he seemed to waffle and waver on, changing it as he went along and then again in post production) and Alien (fiddling around with Goldsmith's score there too). He seems to internalize a lot of his decision making so people (including some of the casts of his films) aren't entirely clear what he wants...on Legend, I think that may have been part of the issue there too in so far as the story and scoring went. Maybe he never felt confident enough in his own movie to fight for it which is why the re-editing and TD's re-scoring happened to begin with.
An absolute master craftsman and visual artist, but there have been times his narratives have been a bit...under-nourished...shall we say...and I think some of that is a byproduct of him just being kind of indecisive at certain times in regards to what he wants or thinks the film needs.
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Posted: |
Jun 27, 2011 - 7:44 PM
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By: |
Cooper
(Member)
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Coop thanks for the comments, I appreciate them.
I do get the feeling Scott for whatever reason seems tempered in his comments there -- which is equally odd because the TRANSFER on the DC, as much as he puts it down, is actually magnificent and is superior the US version! Yes the colors might be more accurate on the theatrical cut, but the actual mastering itself is superior on the DC, yet Scott puts it down as this "archival curiosity." Who knows, maybe every day you'd get a different answer from him!
Pleased to be able to comment, Andy. LEGEND went HD with little fanfare, and yours is probably the most comprehensive write-up out there for a film that I thought would've garnered more attention from reviewers.
Yeah, it's almost like Scott's back in that initial test screening, "sniggerers" in the corner, a whiff of Mary Jane in the air...with the audience turning on the film all over again.
I imagine LEGEND takes some courage to stand behind. Today especially, in its original form, it feels daringly earnest. Some react to it like it's deliberately inviting mockery; all depends on the makeup of the room, I guess... But it's that pre-cynical, unguarded quality backed by Jerry Goldsmith that makes it special; no apologies about being an on-the-level fairy tale, with all its Darkness and tragically unhip Light and Treacle...with the imagery and craft to match the ambition. It's as it should be with those archetypes, which are older than "cool."
That's one of the reasons Tangerine Dream's score never worked all that well for me. Can a "timeless treatment" be given a New Age makeover? Not very successfully, IMHO.
Scott is an enigma to me at times -- not just with this movie, but also Blade Runner (the whole "is
Deckard a replicant" angle which he seemed to waffle and waver on, changing it as he went along and then again in post production) and Alien (fiddling around with Goldsmith's score there too). He seems to internalize a lot of his decision making so people (including some of the casts of his films) aren't entirely clear what he wants...on Legend, I think that may have been part of the issue there too in so far as the story and scoring went. Maybe he never felt confident enough in his own movie to fight for it which is why the re-editing and TD's re-scoring happened to begin with.
Makes me anticipate The Inscrutable Scott's PROMETHEUS all the more, with all the mysterious parts of that production swirling around. Not sure what he's cooking up there as it morphs from one thing to another, but hopefully all that stirring of the pot means it's going to be something special. Something tells me this one's not going to induce any genre-based panic in Scott for being "too sweet." Not with H.R. Giger apparently on board! Should be an easier sell with the studio...and public.
An absolute master craftsman and visual artist, but there have been times his narratives have been a bit...under-nourished...shall we say...and I think some of that is a byproduct of him just being kind of indecisive at certain times in regards to what he wants or thinks the film needs.
Which is why I think ALIEN is Scott at his best; a lean, satisfying story that's just enough to drape his technique and design over; a great fit that feels perfectly executed. PROMETHEUS is beginning to sound like it might be a little broader in scope, so I hope that doesn't make the film feel overstuffed.
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Posted: |
Jun 29, 2011 - 3:27 AM
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By: |
Mr Drive
(Member)
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But, Legend is a beautifully produced movie. The production design, lighting, costumes, Goldsmith's music, Rob Bottin's marvelous creature work, Tim Curry's superb turn as Darkness, Scott & Alex Thompson's wonderful use of the 2.35:1 Panavision format, and even some good performances of the supporting players - if one is a cineaste, all of these aspects of the film are worth examining.
FYI, Legend wasn't shot in Panavision but the then-popular J-D-C scope (like Poltergeist, Return of the Jedi, Lifeforce, Blue Velvet and The Mission). This process was developed by British cinematographer Joe Dunton and had "pin sharp registration, superb depth of focus and a truly unique level of quality." Thomson used JDC a lot in the 80s, for The Keep, Year of the Dragon, The Sicilian, Labyrinth and others. Panavision purchased Dunton's company in 2007 though.
http://www.in70mm.com/academy/11_dunton/index.htm
http://www.cinematographers.nl/PaginasDoPh/thomson.htm
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Posted: |
Jun 29, 2011 - 7:19 PM
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By: |
CCW1970
(Member)
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But, Legend is a beautifully produced movie. The production design, lighting, costumes, Goldsmith's music, Rob Bottin's marvelous creature work, Tim Curry's superb turn as Darkness, Scott & Alex Thompson's wonderful use of the 2.35:1 Panavision format, and even some good performances of the supporting players - if one is a cineaste, all of these aspects of the film are worth examining.
FYI, Legend wasn't shot in Panavision but the then-popular J-D-C scope (like Poltergeist, Return of the Jedi, Lifeforce, Blue Velvet and The Mission). This process was developed by British cinematographer Joe Dunton and had "pin sharp registration, superb depth of focus and a truly unique level of quality." Thomson used JDC a lot in the 80s, for The Keep, Year of the Dragon, The Sicilian, Labyrinth and others. Panavision purchased Dunton's company in 2007 though.
http://www.in70mm.com/academy/11_dunton/index.htm
http://www.cinematographers.nl/PaginasDoPh/thomson.htm
Interesting. Didn't know that. But, now that you mention it, I love the way of those movies look (some more than others due to the individual cinematographer and director styles).
I saw a 70mm print of The Mission at Arclight Hollywood some years back with Roland Joffe doing a Q&A. It wasn't a new print. But, it still looked gorgeous.
Thanks for sharing!
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I saw this film the week before it opened at the Director's Guild. About thirty minutes in half the audience had left. About sixty minutes in about a third of the audience was left. Very few left by the end. I stuck it out but it was excruciatingly bad. Of course, it had the Tangerine Dream score and was the US version. But I've seen the Goldsmith longer version and it's just as bad, IMO. I can usually get with most Ridley Scott films (hate Gladiator, though - sorry), but not Legend.
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