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 Posted:   Nov 25, 2012 - 4:17 PM   
 By:   Angelillo   (Member)

What's up Ang. What CD is Shaiman piece on? I saw it on a compilation, but wanted to ask you buddy.

Title is BARBARA ARRIVES (cue n°2).

A nice complete score would be awesome !

I like Bruce Broughton, and I always wondered about Eloise. Now I know... It's excellent. When I hear new Broughton, i like him even more. Thanks Ang.

Glad you enjoyed it. Hope you'll be able to find this double CD at a reasonable price.

 Posted:   Nov 26, 2012 - 1:51 AM   
 By:   Sigerson Holmes   (Member)

You said you're not interested in cartoon music, but I firmly believe Alter's "Manhattan Serenade" was given its greatest, most colorful, enthusiastic orchestral rendition as Scott Bradley's magnificent underscore for one of the most inspired MGM Tom and Jerry cartoons: "Mouse in Manhattan" (1945).

I was sad not to see it on FSM's Tom and Jerry Volume One CD, and always hoped it would be on Volume Two someday. Along with some of his other T&J motifs throughout, Bradley weaves in a couple of sly references to Brown and Freed's "Broadway Rhythm" between 6:10 and 6:45 . . .

 Posted:   Nov 26, 2012 - 1:30 PM   
 By:   lexedo   (Member)

Spot-on Holmes! I didn't want folks to just lob random "busy city music" examples, that's all I meant about the cartoons initially in the OP. 

I do cite your examples a page or two back; even the Broadway Rhythm one, which is outstanding at around 0:20. Almost every T&J cartoon has a quoted song just after the titles. The Manhattan one you mention, and another one I've been looking at to try to identify 12-tone rows - the one where Jerry wears the fake dog head - I can only analyze musically by watching the Spotlight 3DVD. 

I really like the T&J FSM 2CD. I was hoping for FSM V2 also, but FSM V1 just never landed w the folks I guess. Very sad tbh. 

I would say the Bradley material in general surely represents some of the most complex music ever written for the screen. And some of the most difficult to play too. That's saying something when you consider things like Rozsa's Last Embrace violin solos, Waxman's Carmen Fantasy, Perlman doing Korngold's Violin Concerto, and even good 'ol Harry James doing the Flight of the Bumblebee on his trumpet. 

 Posted:   Nov 26, 2012 - 1:41 PM   
 By:   lexedo   (Member)

Ang: Thanks again buddy. I am confident that the fine members of this Forum would never deny a member like myself the opportunity of academic exploration for a topic as such by not helping me find the Broughton Eloise at the Plaza discs for a reasonable price.

So, if anyone wants to ditch Broughton Eloise at the Plaza sans the mercenary pricing, drop me a note on the same FSM id on aol. I'm not really here right now bc I am still headlong into the Golden Age stuff we've been discssusing, but if the opportunity arises, I will likely take it.

 Posted:   Dec 10, 2012 - 10:54 AM   
 By:   Ray Faiola   (Member)

Alter's METROPOLITAN NOCTURNE was adapted by Max Steiner for an RKO short starring Henry Brandon as a struggling Gotham composer.

 Posted:   Dec 10, 2012 - 12:09 PM   
 By:   (Member)   (Member)

My wishlist for Golden Age scores:

DeVol, Frank
"Kiss Me Deadly" © 1955 MGM
DeVol, Frank
"Attack" © 1956 UA
Dragon, Carmen
"Invasion of the Body Snatchers" © 1956
Duning, George
"Nightfall" © 1957 C
Fried, Gerald
"The Killing" © 1956 MGM
Herrmann, Bernard
"The Man Who Knew Too Much" © 1956
Murray, Lyn
"The Prowler" © 1951
Rosenman, Leonard
"Pork Chop Hill" © 1959 MGM
Rosenman, Leonard
"The Young Stranger" © 1957 U
Rosenman, Leonard
"Rebel Without a Cause" © 1955 WB
Rosenman, Leonard
"East of Eden" © 1955 WB
Waxman, Franz
"Rear Window" © 1954 P/U
Waxman, Franz
"He Ran All The Way" © 1951 UA

 Posted:   Dec 10, 2012 - 12:32 PM   
 By:   lexedo   (Member)

Alter's METROPOLITAN NOCTURNE was adapted by Max Steiner for an RKO short starring Henry Brandon as a struggling Gotham composer.

I believe an attraction of film music is its lack of ubiquity, especially when compared with popular music. Everytime I see a new short, I try to note the music. The MGM / Johnny Green shorts are great, and maybe I've seen 3 or 4. It is sad that much of this music will never be heard again. Let me scour youtube to find this RKO / Henry Brandon short with Alter music adapted by Max Steiner. Thank you again, Ray F.

BTW, DiB, regarding Steiner Four Wives: what film is this music from buddy?

 Posted:   Jan 3, 2013 - 8:29 AM   
 By:   Ray Faiola   (Member)

The album I am quoting from is "ALBUM OF MANHATTAN: Metropolitan Impressions by Louis Alter." It is a Decca DL-5109 10" Lp album (probably originally on a 78 rpm set) and the selections are played by Paul Whiteman and His Concert Orchestra. (You can't get much closer to Gershwin that that!!!)

In addition to Alter's METROPOLITAN NOCTURNE being the subject of an RKO short starring Henry Brandon (with musical direction by Max Steiner), his MANHATTAN SERENADE was used as the main title music for Universal's MY MAN GODFREY in 1936.

Here's a youtube link to Alter's MANHATTAN SERENADE:

and here is the main title to MY MAN GODFREY:

 Posted:   Jan 3, 2013 - 9:07 AM   
 By:   fleming   (Member)

Nelson Riddle's theme from "Paris When It Sizzles" has a Gershwin-like "An American in Paris " feeling. Call it a Manhattan-Montmartre connection.

 Posted:   Jan 3, 2013 - 10:12 AM   
 By:   DavidinBerkeley   (Member)

BTW, DiB, regarding Steiner Four Wives: what film is this music from buddy?

The film was Four Wives (1939).

 Posted:   Jan 3, 2013 - 3:59 PM   
 By:   lexedo   (Member)

Re: Four Wives. Duh. All those years of college down the drain...

Re: Alter / Godfrey. These type of things are national treasures. So very cool. Thanks again Ray!

I love the Nelson Riddle Paris When It Sizzles, and the HDTracks 192KHz/24bit hi-rez download is excellent from a fidelity perspective. Here is the link:

Last year at this time, I sent a letter to the proprietors of HDTracks, the Cheskeys I believe, and they confirmed that the Nelson Riddle Paris When It Sizzles 192KHz/24bit files were supplied by WB -- viz., that the files had been remastered from a clean source with an appropriate process and HW, and not lifted from LP, etc. There's a post about this in one of the original HDTracks threads bc I was an early adopter.

Nelson Riddle Paris When It Sizzles at 192KHz/24bit is easily the finest sounding golden age / silver age original soundtrack ever released. Period. Of course, Nelly was a Jersey-boy, so it doesn't surprise me. :-D

Well, anyway, it is the new year, so back to the city...

I did want to do a quick post about other approaches to city music. In this respect, Copland's Something Wild is unique in that it uses 12-tone techniques to develop the city landcape's imagery - I remember before the holidays someone inquired about this ST. I imagine things like Bernstien's Age of Anxiety, etc. stem from this more realistic and sometimes cynical, yet hopeful, view of NYC, or any city. I believe the intent on Copland's part would have been to create a very realistic landscape from which we as a society can derive approaches for betterment -- acknowledge the truth of the landscape, and define possibilities steeped in reality, not based on perceived views of perfection. Copland's Something Wild is on Varese as [VSD 3020664692], and he performs a suite of the film music as "Music for a Great City" on "The Copland Collection -- Late Orchestral Works 1948-1971 [SM2K 47236]," which is a Sony Classical release. It is an interesting modern take on the city, but I know some will shun it bc it deviates from the typically big and open sound for which Copland is most appreciated.

Recently, I acquired Eivind Buene's Possible Cities / Essential Landscapes on hi-rez BR. The young maestro is of Nordic descent, so hopefully, Thor reads through this a bit, and offers his useful insights. It is an interesting modern take on the cities in the spirit of Something Wild in the sense that it does not present an ideological perspective, but rather, one that depicts the actual landscape, and the possibilities inherent therein -- the perceived perfection is contained within the possibilities themselves, not the physical landscape. I wonder that Buene and Copland saw the infinite possibilities of even the most aged and decrepid cities, and perhaps this is why they each chose to use 12-tone techniques. It is an excellent recording and the hi-def package is very well done -- you will have no issues identifying the direction of any instrument in CIKADA's ensemble. You get a BR, an SACD, and the capability to download 192KHz/24bit/6ch files. Nice package, and I enjoyed that such a young maestro felt intellectually stimulated by the potential of our cities.

I suppose we should mention Sufjan Stevens if we are speaking about NYC music. He was commissioned to write music about the BQE in NYC, which is the Brooklyn-Queens Expressway, and probably one of the worst and most dangerous roads in the country. I saw a special on this fellow and his music a few years back, perhaps on PBS or NJN. I remember thinking that it sounded like a group of musicians intent on sounding like Chick Corea's 70s fusion, sans the very excellent bassists. Notwithstanding my personal opinions, his position was that BQE actually disrupted and destroyed that part of the city bc the road divided the city. It was an interesting perspective for sure. I'm not sold that his music is relevant in that respect, however. It seems like this fellow needs bigger musical ideas, and yet his thesis behind the music is very well conceived. More to come I'm sure.

And finally, as a sort of year-end review, I would say that the one piece of music suggested herein that affected me most was Alex North's Four Girls In Town. It's probably the most inventive jazz I've heard in the last 30 years. Thanks to DiB in that respect.

And Happy New Year Everyone!

 Posted:   Jan 4, 2013 - 10:15 AM   
 By:   DavidinBerkeley   (Member)

And finally, as a sort of year-end review, I would say that the one piece of music suggested herein that affected me most was Alex North's Four Girls In Town. It's probably the most inventive jazz I've heard in the last 30 years. Thanks to DiB in that respect.

You're welcome. It was fun mining my memory to find the one piece that leaped forward when I read your question, but refused to identify itself until I'd worked hard.

 Posted:   Jan 16, 2013 - 12:13 PM   
 By:   DavidinBerkeley   (Member)

There's a piece of what I think is "library music" called "Workaday World" by someone named Jack Beaver.

You can hear it here, just after the "swag" article:

 Posted:   Jan 20, 2013 - 10:07 PM   
 By:   DavidinBerkeley   (Member)

Add CITY FOR CONQUEST, wherein Max Steiner goes Gershwinesque in a grandly sentimental symphonic finale: composer Arthur Kennedy conducts his own composition and tearfully dedicates it to injured brother James Cagney (who, nearly blind, listens on radio from the newsstand where he has been reduced to collecting nickels). More corn than gold perhaps, but they did things in a grand way in those days. And, yes, folks, there really was a time when live symphony broadcasts were the talk of the town. (Compare The Constant Nymph.)

I just heard Jack Benny doing a parody version of this film, and so remembered this film. I listened to the 2-piano re-recording and thought it might fit Lexedo's bill.

First credit goes, though, to Rozsaphile who mentioned it above.

Here's the acetate recording that seems to have been released on the Citadel LP.

 Posted:   Jan 21, 2013 - 6:09 AM   
 By:   Howard L   (Member)

It's been a while since I saw the flick but just listening to that piece brought it ALL back. In spades. Thank you for posting it. What a clever thing Steiner did. And damn, can only imagine the scores Gershwin would have come up with had he lived a decent while longer, grrrrrrrrrrr....

 Posted:   Feb 27, 2013 - 7:34 AM   
 By:   lexedo   (Member)

Very cool examples again from David in Berkeley. I'm going to get into those a bit later, and post some comments.


I watched Dodsworth from 1936 with Walter Huston, David Niven, and Mary Astor last evening on TCM. Alfred Newman is credited as the musical director for this classic MGM film directed by William Wyler (Ben Hur). It was a very good movie that I recommend for viewing.

Alfred uses very interesting Gershwinesque music as the Paris scene starts, and this is in the scope of the OP -- he's using minor chords to differentiate NYC (e.g., HTMAM New York xylophone uses major chords) & Paris (e.g., Dodsworth Paris xylophone uses minor chords).

Here is a thread I created dedicated to Dodsworth, which also contains a bit more colour on the Al Newman score:


Also, I wanted to highlight Laura (1944), with music by David Raksin, and The Harder They Fall (1956), with music by Hugo Friedhofer. Both movies begin with shots of the NYC skyline during the Golden Age period. The reason these fine scores are not within the scope of the OP is because the Laura music is about her, even though NYC shots are shown, and the music for The Harder They Fall is about the corruption in the boxing industry at the time.


And finally, from another thread started by Orion_mk3, here are some additional examples that are more modern than most of the Golden Age examples specified herein. The first two examples are interesting because they are from video games:

- Joe Hisashi "Motorville" ==>

- "Sim City Broadway" ==>

- Dick Tracy "Tess' Theme" ==>

- Alan Silvestri "Roger Rabbit End Titles" ==> During the end titles, Maestro Silvestri guides the LSO through a bunch of jazzy takes that qualify the period of the film (even though these are performed in the spirit of late-80s/early-90s jazz), and there is one that is specifically meant to conjure images of Golden Age cartoons. In this particular case, the piano is doing it's best Gershwin impersonation with some super-fast lines. It's real fun, and Tom Scott plays sax, which is very noticeable in the end titles.

 Posted:   Feb 27, 2013 - 8:28 AM   
 By:   lexedo   (Member)

From member Bob Bryden: "I played Elmer Bernstein's unused 'Stars 'n' Bars' score and was pondering how direct an 'homage' one of his themes seemed to be to 'Rhapsody in Blue'."

Nice example, Bob.

 Posted:   Feb 27, 2013 - 2:59 PM   
 By:   DavidinBerkeley   (Member)


Steiner/Rabinowitz' Symphonie Moderne got some regular airplay well after FOUR WIVES, as it served as the theme to the SCREEN GUILD radio show.

 Posted:   Oct 8, 2014 - 3:39 PM   
 By:   DavidinBerkeley   (Member)

I'd say this qualifies, but might be a little "longhair" compared to Lexedo's other choices.

 Posted:   Oct 8, 2014 - 4:01 PM   
 By:   Ron Pulliam   (Member)

Those recently posted stills of Newman conducting the MGM SO for How To Marry A Millionaire are priceless - that's what started this whole thing in my head.

I think you mean the 20th Century-Fox orchestra. "How the West Was Won" was the only film Newman ever scored for MGM.

Newman conducted some MGM musicals, including "The Broadway Melody of 1940" which has a fantastic main title. He was music director on a couple of other MGM musicals as well: "Born to Dance" and "The Broadway Melody of 1936".

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