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 Posted:   Jan 3, 2013 - 9:49 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Are you upset because you feel JAY Z is not a good composer? i have not heard enough of his music to voice an opinion.

In the case of Jay Z, the title "composer" must be used very loosely.

Have you listened to any of Kip Winger's (from Winger) ballets? Or perhaps some of Paul McCartney's classical music?

Comparing Jay Z to Paul McCartney is a joke if I've ever heard it. One's a musician. One sucks on ice. (The musician is English)


That's in the eye of the beholder, isn't it?

The level of prejudice here is staggering.

 
 Posted:   Jan 3, 2013 - 10:28 AM   
 By:   Penelope Pineapple   (Member)

Are you upset because you feel JAY Z is not a good composer? i have not heard enough of his music to voice an opinion.

In the case of Jay Z, the title "composer" must be used very loosely.

Have you listened to any of Kip Winger's (from Winger) ballets? Or perhaps some of Paul McCartney's classical music?

Comparing Jay Z to Paul McCartney is a joke if I've ever heard it. One's a musician. One sucks on ice. (The musician is English)

That's in the eye of the beholder, isn't it?

The level of prejudice here is staggering.


As Random Guy pointed out--knocking non-composers here is an FSM pasttime. Jay-Z is just as much a musician as Paul McCartney and the two, in fact, have performed together. Ahem, let me say that again....

Paul McCartney and Jay-Z have performed, on stage, together.

That Paul McCartney can perform with and ostensibly recognize Jay-Z as a legitimate musician and performer in his own right while here, in the FSM bubble, the self-appointed arbiters of who is and who is not a "true" composer decry anyone not ordained or admitted to "the club" without their say-so says a lot about the views bandied about these threads like this one.

I had no interest in Jay-Z until reading this thread. Now I'm curious as hell to see what he brings to the film score table.....

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 3, 2013 - 10:36 AM   
 By:   CindyLover   (Member)

Paul McCartney and Jay-Z have performed, on stage, together.

That doesn't make either of them any more interesting. Especially McCartney.

 
 Posted:   Jan 3, 2013 - 10:43 AM   
 By:   Sirusjr   (Member)


Have you listened to any of Kip Winger's (from Winger) ballets? Or perhaps some of Paul McCartney's classical music?

Comparing Jay Z to Paul McCartney is a joke if I've ever heard it. One's a musician. One sucks on ice. (The musician is English)


That's in the eye of the beholder, isn't it?

The level of prejudice here is staggering.

Actually, if you look at what started my reference to McCartney, I initially said that musicians with a rock background are more suited to writing classical melodies than rap or hip-hop artists because there are so many melodies in rock music. I then brought up a few that I know have actually written orchestral music as an example.

I can also say from experience, because my brother writes beats and produces for indie hip-hop artists that he has absolutely no interest in listening to anything classical or orchestral so the thought of him going off and writing a film score also seems very silly.

 
 Posted:   Jan 3, 2013 - 11:06 AM   
 By:   Penelope Pineapple   (Member)

Actually, if you look at what started my reference to McCartney, I initially said that musicians with a rock background are more suited to writing classical melodies than rap or hip-hop artists because there are so many melodies in rock music. I then brought up a few that I know have actually written orchestral music as an example.

I do see and tend to agree in general with you on this point.

I can also say from experience, because my brother writes beats and produces for indie hip-hop artists that he has absolutely no interest in listening to anything classical or orchestral so the thought of him going off and writing a film score also seems very silly.

Here is where I slightly begin to disagree, only in that (1) while this is true, it's anecdotal and can only go so far and (2) if this was someone I knew, I'd be just as quick to note that they, too, would be doing themselves a disservice if they were writing off classical music and film scores (for the sake of writing it off). Erick Sermon (of EPMD), Dr. Dre, and Del tha Funkee Homosapien (off the top of my head) have all used classical music samples (or written the melodies themselves).

I'm sure there's a million other hip-hop songs with strings and orchestral samples, but I'm not sitting in front of my collection at the moment...but I am listening to Jerry Goldsmith's THE PRIZE big grin .

 
 Posted:   Jan 3, 2013 - 11:12 AM   
 By:   Penelope Pineapple   (Member)

Paul McCartney and Jay-Z have performed, on stage, together.

That doesn't make either of them any more interesting. Especially McCartney.


I didn't mean to imply that did. (The performance could be awful to some.) I only found it amusing that Paul McCartney seems to have no issues accepting and working with Jay-Z as a musician while here Paul McCartney (seems to be) accepted while Jay-Z is not.

 
 Posted:   Jan 3, 2013 - 11:20 AM   
 By:   Sirusjr   (Member)


I can also say from experience, because my brother writes beats and produces for indie hip-hop artists that he has absolutely no interest in listening to anything classical or orchestral so the thought of him going off and writing a film score also seems very silly.

Here is where I slightly begin to disagree, only in that (1) while this is true, it's anecdotal and can only go so far and (2) if this was someone I knew, I'd be just as quick to note that they, too, would be doing themselves a disservice if they were writing off classical music and film scores (for the sake of writing it off). Erick Sermon (of EPMD), Dr. Dre, and Del tha Funkee Homosapien (off the top of my head) have all used classical music samples (or written the melodies themselves).

I'm sure there's a million other hip-hop songs with strings and orchestral samples, but I'm not sitting in front of my collection at the moment...but I am listening to Jerry Goldsmith's THE PRIZE big grin .


I've tried to get him to sample classical music and film scores in the past and he doesn't mind sampling them for certain sounds but doesn't listen to them standalone. I got him a vinyl record of a Les Baxter Exotica album and he sampled some of that for a beat, and it turned out pretty sweet. I've offered to let him borrow my film score albums to sample stuff but mostly he is more interested in old Jazz records.

 
 Posted:   Jan 3, 2013 - 11:31 AM   
 By:   Penelope Pineapple   (Member)

I've offered to let him borrow my film score albums to sample stuff but mostly he is more interested in old Jazz records.

Jazz and Hip-Hop go together like peanut butter and jelly! wink It's nice, though, that you're making your scores visible and abvailable to him. You never know, one day he could wake up or just hear the right film score and do a 180 and go film score-sample crazy!

 
 Posted:   Jan 3, 2013 - 11:56 AM   
 By:   First Breath   (Member)

I'm usually open to unconventional non-symphonic scores, but Jay Z may just be more than even I can handle.

 
 Posted:   Jan 3, 2013 - 1:59 PM   
 By:   The REAL BJBien   (Member)

im so there!

 
 Posted:   Jan 3, 2013 - 2:01 PM   
 By:   Sigerson Holmes   (Member)

Just occurred to me, could Jay-Z have landed this assignment on the strength of other movie work?

http://www.nme.com/filmandtv/news/jay-zs-annie-remake-to-shoot-next-spring/280886

 
 Posted:   Jan 3, 2013 - 5:08 PM   
 By:   pete   (Member)

Could this be what the Mayans were referring to?

 
 Posted:   Jan 3, 2013 - 5:41 PM   
 By:   drivingmissdaisy   (Member)

Could this be what the Mayans were referring to?

LOL, great post buddy! ha ha ha



So now composers don't have to compete against each other, they now have to compete against other musicians/songwriters who's forte is not film scoring, yikes.

I didn't mind the Romeo and Juliet thingy, but I'm nervous about this idea. Granted if Jay Zee Ba Dee does do the score, I'm sure he'll get nominated and possibly win because the Academy is so hip and cool...

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 3, 2013 - 6:54 PM   
 By:   Nicholas_DW   (Member)

Are you upset because you feel JAY Z is not a good composer? i have not heard enough of his music to voice an opinion.

In the case of Jay Z, the title "composer" must be used very loosely.

Have you listened to any of Kip Winger's (from Winger) ballets? Or perhaps some of Paul McCartney's classical music?

Comparing Jay Z to Paul McCartney is a joke if I've ever heard it. One's a musician. One sucks on ice. (The musician is English)


That's in the eye of the beholder, isn't it?

The level of prejudice here is staggering.


It's not prejudice. I've heard what Jay Z is capable of. He's a pop artist, not remotely up to scoring a motion picture. Did I ever say I'd trust McCartney to score a film? No. Why? Because I wouldn't trust him to either. Scoring requires depth. Range. Nuance. Things these guys don't have enough of. It's not prejudice and it's not anti-non-composer. It's my opinion, but it has reasoning behind it. I enjoy some of McCartney's work (though not remotely all of it) and can't stand Jay Z's output. Crucify away. It doesn't make my opinion any less valid.

 
 Posted:   Jan 3, 2013 - 7:26 PM   
 By:   mastadge   (Member)

http://www.vulture.com/2013/01/jay-z-great-gatsby-quiz.html

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 3, 2013 - 7:28 PM   
 By:   dan the man   (Member)

TO NICKO HO- I agree with you 99,9/10 th percent. I am tired of people using the claim of prejudice on things in a silly lazy manner when it has nothing to do with prejudice, You make good points. Yes this is a democracy anyone can score a film, but the people here also in a democracy has the right to be upset by it and make comments on it.It is not a manner of what genre of music one came from. We know where John Barry started as, it's the case, are they talented enough to deal with the art form of film scoring.Would you want K,C and THE SUNSHINE BAND do a remake of THE SOUND OF MUSIC? I THINK NOT.But people don't get too upset about it, very likely the film will bomb out, be gone before you know it and years from now one will watch it late at night on cable TV like XANUDU- but wait the ELECTRIC LIGHT ORCHESTRA, they may have been able to pull it off. I know the great MOODY BLUES could, they never did score a film did they?

 
 Posted:   Jan 3, 2013 - 10:26 PM   
 By:   Sigerson Holmes   (Member)

Did I ever say I'd trust McCartney to score a film? No. Why? Because I wouldn't trust him to either.


What if George Martin came with him and helped out?

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 3, 2013 - 10:42 PM   
 By:   Nicholas_DW   (Member)

I knew that was coming.

 
 Posted:   Jan 3, 2013 - 11:04 PM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

I have no love for Jay-Z. It's not my thing. But do we really know for sure that "pop artist" is the be-all and end-all of his aspiration? We are so quick to define people -- this artist does this, that one does that. Jay-Z is incredibly successful, and for that I cannot fault him. But he may have more in him. I bristle when people here insist that they know that he does not have depth or range simply because he has not yet displayed such depth or range.

As a person employed in the entertainment business for the last two decades, I have consistently had to fight just such narrow thinking, where the people who would hire me define me narrowly only by what I have already done (sometimes they consider that a strength, sometimes a weakness). I want to do new things. I know I have them in me. I am looking to prove myself in ways I have not yet.

All that said, maybe Jay-Z will write a lousy score for "The Great Gatsby" (if he's, in fact, really writing it at all). But I remember back in 1992, when Terence Blanchard was announced as the composer for "Malcolm X." I knew he was a respected jazz musician, but I thought his music would be all wrong for a sprawling biography like that. It turned out to be one of my favorite scores of that year. Who knows?

The one thing we know for sure is that whatever music winds up in the film, it will be exactly the music that Baz Luhrmann wants it to be (or what test audiences tell the studio executives it should be). Jay-Z will not have free reign, any more than Mozart would were he alive to score this film.

 
 Posted:   Jan 3, 2013 - 11:13 PM   
 By:   Sirusjr   (Member)

Bravo! Excellent post. I agree.

 
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