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 Posted:   Aug 22, 2013 - 11:20 AM   
 By:   Kev McGann   (Member)

I already own the original 30 minute Varese CD AND the Intrada 55 minute expansion.
Both sound fine to me.
I'm happy to pass on this one, but judging by the traffic here, I'm leaving my copy to a eager home (or a goddamned speculator!!).

 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2013 - 11:28 AM   
 By:   Jeff Bond   (Member)

I have to admit I'm tempted by this too--this is one of those scores where I've always felt like the electronics were too out front, blaring and washed out the orchestral material. I prefer Goldsmith's title theme to his Carol Anne theme but I've rarely returned to the Varese edition...well, I suppose I have no choice now. It's the will of Landru.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2013 - 11:43 AM   
 By:   joec   (Member)

Yeah, he never looked well!

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=julian+beck+gallery&sa=X&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ei=0VQWUtqOF6LN7Ab5x4D4Dw&ved=0CD4QsAQ&biw=1366&bih=533


Beck was from Washington heights, me too!

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2013 - 11:45 AM   
 By:   Kim Tong   (Member)

I already own the original 30 minute Varese CD AND the Intrada 55 minute expansion.
Both sound fine to me.
I'm happy to pass on this one, but judging by the traffic here, I'm leaving my copy to a eager home (or a goddamned speculator!!).


Good to see this released again, but I also have 2 of the previous 3 releases and both sound fine to me. Hope someone gets my copy before the speculators do since there will only be 1500 copies.

 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2013 - 11:54 AM   
 By:   Jason LeBlanc   (Member)

Roger chimed in again

If I remember correctly, and Doug would know better...I think Goldsmith was not in favor of using the chorus. Really not in favor...which is one of the reasons he did not include any of it on the original album. And I think Botnick added the telephone ringing when they made the album...I think it was his idea, not Goldsmith's. But then you get used to it and it sounds weird without it.


and


Gah! Of course there's chorus on the original album. Just not the big choral action cues. That's what I meant.

 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2013 - 1:17 PM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)

To intrada's credit, they were the first to expand this properly and their special edition release has all the vital cues (and leaves out that annoying yet prophetic cell phone ringtone). I first bought the shorter Varese CD from Colosseum and was disappointed with how much was left off. When the Varese Club came around it was a nice expansion, but curious why it wasn't complete as it easily could have been.

So it looks like this is the definitive release and the new audio mix does make me curious... I will say that I can't see how a different audio mix suddenly can make a score that has always been a score dividing Goldsmith fans (mostly due to the synths) change minds of those who own the previous editions and can't get into it; I think with a score like Warlock for instance, a decent remastering could work wonders in the Goldsmith PR department wink

I will hang on to the Intrada special edition (first love and all that), but I'll gladly replace my Varese Club with this new Kritzerland. More 80s horror please wink

Also, wanted to mention that 1500 is far too low for such a popular title and I can see this selling out within the day. Just remember the Intrada Link reissue and that didn't even have unreleased material on it.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2013 - 1:26 PM   
 By:   rickO   (Member)

Bruce,

I was wondering two things:

Will the cover artwork be the same as the original poster art (the black background with white lettering) and Carol Ann on her phone (like the Intrada from 86)? I didn't really care for the Varese Deluxe cover. It was too contemporaneous with horror covers of the 2000's and not appropriate to the year it came out. I will still buy it anyway, of course smile

And, do the liner notes have any new revelations in regards to the music and movie?

Thanks!

-Rick O.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2013 - 1:53 PM   
 By:   captain_avis   (Member)



So it looks like this is the definitive release and the new audio mix does make me curious... I will say that I can't see how a different audio mix suddenly can make a score that has always been a score dividing Goldsmith fans (mostly due to the synths) change minds of those who own the previous editions and can't get into it; I think with a score like Warlock for instance, a decent remastering could work wonders in the Goldsmith PR department wink


I love Goldsmith's Poltergeist, but never warmed to the sequel score. Jerry's synth work from this period is very hit or miss for me. I love Twilight Zone the Movie and Gremlins, but am very put off by the synths in Explorers, Legend and Poltergeist 2. I've only ever heard the Varese release of this score and I too am somewhat skeptical that the audio overhaul will improve my opinion.

To those that have the earlier editions of the score, is the mastering on the Varese disk really that poor that it a new mix will drastically change opinions?

Chris.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2013 - 1:58 PM   
 By:   rickO   (Member)

I have to admit I'm tempted by this too--this is one of those scores where I've always felt like the electronics were too out front, blaring and washed out the orchestral material. I prefer Goldsmith's title theme to his Carol Anne theme but I've rarely returned to the Varese edition...well, I suppose I have no choice now. It's the will of Landru.

Jeff, regarding that title theme: you've got to admit how cool it is that Jerry brought back the "Native American sound" from his western scores into Poltergeist II. Rio Conchos, Rio Lobo, Brave Little Indian. Not to mention the outdoorsy Copland sentiments similar to Star Trek V and Logan's Run!

I always thought that Poltergeist was the flip side of Star Trek The Motion Picture and Poltergeist II was the converse of Star Trek V.

-Rick O.

 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2013 - 2:13 PM   
 By:   Jason LeBlanc   (Member)

Oh dear. Doug F has just chimed in with a very interesting post


One big thing to keep in mind, and this we know from being the original label to finance the project back in 1986. The three-channel mixes for Poltergeist II were NOT designed for true stereo listening but made for the Dolby four-channel film prints. On this title, the center channel was mixed specifically with balancing underneath dialog. As such, instruments were positioned in that region separately from where they were in the proper stereo listening mixes. Re-mastering these mixes can address lots of audio issues for today's marketplace BUT can not alter the intentions of them being made to accommodate dialog in Dolby presentations. We already went through all of this with both Goldsmith and Bruce Botnick when we made the original album, one of the first digital soundtracks to hit the then-new CD marketplace, and again when we put together our first expanded release. Goldsmith specifically stated the mixes for the film presentations altered the violas, woodwinds, percussion and some of the electronics considerably and said they were not designed for listening apart from the dialog because they would phase improperly.

While there is warmth to the analog three-channel elements, the instrumental positioning is out of kilter with the actual two-track digital mixes Botnick created. Both he and Goldsmith preferred the digital two-track sources (Sony PCM format) because they reflected what the orchestra spread was intended to be. Though it was then state-of-the-art, the Poltergeist II recording has never been my favorite in terms of audio, and hot and brittle is a good way to describe the digital sources. However, the correct stereo imaging and spread of the true stereo mixes is certainly an important consideration and trumps warmth for me.

If the 1/2" three-channel tapes were all that survived, using them would be a necessity. But the true stereo PCM masters do exist. When we decided to delete the release, we sent the masters to Varese so they could do their own version.

I'll look forward to this upcoming new version and probably enjoy it just fine. Bruce Kimmel can work wonders with the audio on his albums. But that said, my personal preference will still be the true stereo mixes Goldsmith and Botnick created.
--Doug


http://www.intrada.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=65375#p65375

 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2013 - 2:47 PM   
 By:   The Mutant   (Member)

I shall buy this watermelon!!!

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2013 - 3:48 PM   
 By:   rickO   (Member)

I am so loving that this title is getting new exposure.

Just some observations that I have noticed while watching the movie itself:

The tail end of The Power. From what my ears can pick out, there is a disturbing (but fun) choral stinger for the shot of Kane's rotted rictus with a parasite coming out of it's mouth. You hear the choir literally "SCREEEEEEAMM!" in terror alongside the audience. On the existing albums the stinger is there, but it sounds low in the mix. Will the new CD have the louder stinger?

The Worm. At the beginning, the film version has more pronounced chorus as well. In this case you hear choral whispering, like the evil spirits are watching from the underworld and gossiping about the onscreen drama. Will the mix on the new CD be a pronounced as the movie?

It will be interesting to find out...!

-Rick O.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2013 - 4:08 PM   
 By:   haineshisway   (Member)

Oh dear. Doug F has just chimed in with a very interesting post


One big thing to keep in mind, and this we know from being the original label to finance the project back in 1986. The three-channel mixes for Poltergeist II were NOT designed for true stereo listening but made for the Dolby four-channel film prints. On this title, the center channel was mixed specifically with balancing underneath dialog. As such, instruments were positioned in that region separately from where they were in the proper stereo listening mixes. Re-mastering these mixes can address lots of audio issues for today's marketplace BUT can not alter the intentions of them being made to accommodate dialog in Dolby presentations. We already went through all of this with both Goldsmith and Bruce Botnick when we made the original album, one of the first digital soundtracks to hit the then-new CD marketplace, and again when we put together our first expanded release. Goldsmith specifically stated the mixes for the film presentations altered the violas, woodwinds, percussion and some of the electronics considerably and said they were not designed for listening apart from the dialog because they would phase improperly.

While there is warmth to the analog three-channel elements, the instrumental positioning is out of kilter with the actual two-track digital mixes Botnick created. Both he and Goldsmith preferred the digital two-track sources (Sony PCM format) because they reflected what the orchestra spread was intended to be. Though it was then state-of-the-art, the Poltergeist II recording has never been my favorite in terms of audio, and hot and brittle is a good way to describe the digital sources. However, the correct stereo imaging and spread of the true stereo mixes is certainly an important consideration and trumps warmth for me.

If the 1/2" three-channel tapes were all that survived, using them would be a necessity. But the true stereo PCM masters do exist. When we decided to delete the release, we sent the masters to Varese so they could do their own version.

I'll look forward to this upcoming new version and probably enjoy it just fine. Bruce Kimmel can work wonders with the audio on his albums. But that said, my personal preference will still be the true stereo mixes Goldsmith and Botnick created.
--Doug


http://www.intrada.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=65375#p65375


What's interesting about it? It's a self-serving post and kind of obnoxious at that. First of all, Goldsmith did the three-channel mixdowns and they sound AMAZING and there is nothing funky or incorrect about the orchestra placement and I would posit that Mr. Fake has never even heard them. And yes, we chose the half-inch analogue because the digital sounds like crap. I had no interest whatsoever in replicating any of the previous releases - why would I? We have the digital two-track mixes and I don't need them from the PCM because I have - wait for it - the Intrada and the Varese releases and if I wanted to use them I would, but don't so I'm not. Furthermore, the stereo mixes Goldsmith and Botnick created (mostly Botnick) don't really reflect the music as heard in the film, so there's that. Furthermore, there is more orchestral detail on the half-inches and one hears more of certain bits of orchestration and let me tell you I'm all for that. There is just something very oily about this self-serving post and it's kind of nauseating, actually. I will not even respond to it on the Intrada board and, of course, if we really want to go down this road we can start talking about Dressed to Kill. smile

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2013 - 4:10 PM   
 By:   haineshisway   (Member)

Roger at Intrada has chimed in:
"I never picked up the Varese because I thought our expanded version was fine (it's never been my favorite score...but yes Goldsmith's program for our original release was crazy. Even with the 30 minute AFM restriction, he choose to avoid any of the action music!). The too hot doesn't surprise me, as Varese has been pumping the levels for a while. The RUNAWAY deluxe addition is really hot too...I prefer the sound of their first release. I just didn't realize they were doing this going back so far. Am I reading right that this new release is from the analog masters? Previous releases were from the digital masters (I wonder if Varese forgot to return them to MGM!). Although 1/2" have pretty good sound, if I'm interpreting the source right. Always a good score to keep in print especially for those that wanted everything."

http://www.intrada.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5734&p=65367#p65367

I was wondering if perhaps Bruce chose to use the analogue masters because they had better sound (this was the mid-80s, after all). I remember that Lukas chose to use the analogue masters instead of the digital ones for most of the FSM Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan...

I suspect the Kritzerland will totally eclipse sound-wise all of the previous releases taken from the digital tapes.

Yavar


Yes, that was the reason. If I wanted the same harsh digital sound I could have just used the three previous releases to assemble this and then just stuck on the four new tracks. But that's not what I wanted or was after. We all do things our own way.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2013 - 4:12 PM   
 By:   haineshisway   (Member)

Bruce,

I was wondering two things:

Will the cover artwork be the same as the original poster art (the black background with white lettering) and Carol Ann on her phone (like the Intrada from 86)? I didn't really care for the Varese Deluxe cover. It was too contemporaneous with horror covers of the 2000's and not appropriate to the year it came out. I will still buy it anyway, of course smile

And, do the liner notes have any new revelations in regards to the music and movie?

Thanks!

-Rick O.


Hey Rick - The cover is basically the original art with Carol Anne on the phone but not so far away as it was - our cover, I think, is much more pleasing to the eye. We also did an alternate cover for the back of the booklet so you have your choice of two - and no, the alternate is nothing like the Varese - it's a completely new look. Liner notes cover the basic history of the film and a little about the score, in our usual way smile

 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2013 - 4:16 PM   
 By:   SBD   (Member)

Yeah, I am totally buying this!

The cue where Kane is at the front door with Steven, and Diane is having visions of Kane's past still make me shutter.


Yes indeed. This is a must have. Thanks Bruce. Julian Beck was just perfection for casting. The malevolence was breathtaking.


The highlight of the film, as far as I'm concerned. For a few minutes, the gimmicky effects take a break and the film actually manages to scare you. Goldsmith's music in that scene is masterful.

While I love the Varese edition, I think I'll give this a chance. Haven't see the film in a while, so I'm interested in the cues that have been missing in action for so long.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2013 - 4:21 PM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

Julian Beck was just perfection for casting.


Oh, hai gurlz!

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2013 - 4:33 PM   
 By:   rickO   (Member)

Julian Beck was just perfection for casting.


Oh, hai gurlz!



LMAO!

I read somewhere that Beck, knowing he was dying, used knowledge of his fate when playing this role. How chilling is that??

-Rick O.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2013 - 4:33 PM   
 By:   rickO   (Member)

Julian Beck was just perfection for casting.


Oh, hai gurlz!



LMAO!

I read somewhere that Beck, knowing he was dying, used knowledge of his fate when playing this role. How chilling is that??

-Rick O.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 22, 2013 - 5:08 PM   
 By:   Takeitdownanotch!   (Member)

Am I the only one who is tired of reading the arguments of our label friends? Enough.

If Bruce wants to spend the money to put out his release one way, good on him. We, the consumers, will decide if it's good or not with our patronage.

If Doug thinks another way is better, great, but why does he have to chime in all the time? Same goes for MV. I really do not care what record labels think about each other. I care how the music is mastered and released.

 
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