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 Posted:   Sep 23, 2012 - 10:54 PM   
 By:   Sigerson Holmes   (Member)

 
 Posted:   Sep 23, 2012 - 11:17 PM   
 By:   ZapBrannigan   (Member)

Irwin Allen, on the other hand, had no problem borrowing from Roddenberry.

"The Making of Star Trek" and other subsequent books tell the tale of the infamous meeting between Roddenberry and "the suits" at CBS. They picked his brain, and took notes, on every topic they could think of having to do with producing a weekly science fiction adventure on a TV budget.

Then they rejected Roddenberry's pitch saying, "Thanks, but we're already working on something very similar."
"Lost in Space" debuted on CBS a year before NBC's "Star Trek."



That's Gene Roddenberry's self-flattering version of events, and not entirely true. According to Herb Solow and Robert Justman in their landmark book INSIDE STAR TREK, Roddenberry and Oscar Katz (himself a former CBS executive) had a pitch meeting at CBS that included James T. Aubrey, president of the network. But it was too soon. The STAR TREK concept wasn't fleshed out yet, it wasn't ready to be pitched, and on top of that, Roddenberry was a terrible pitchman. He was nervous and he mumbled.

By rushing STAR TREK into a premature pitch meeting, Roddenberry hurt the show's chances of getting picked up, because there were only three networks to pitch, and you didn't get a second meeting for the same idea.

For my part, as a fan of both shows, I can't believe LOST IN SPACE got any clever production ideas from Gene Roddenberry's pitch to CBS. That kind of fib was pure Roddenberry, but he had never done this kind of show before, while Irwin Allen knew every trick in the book.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 24, 2012 - 12:38 AM   
 By:   CindyLover   (Member)

Wanna see a similarity between characters? Williams Shatner and Robert Conrad were both short and both played action leads in 60's adventure shows and were both named "Captain James T." something. Both were quick with their fists and big with the ladies and ripped their shorts often. Wild Wild West premiered a year before Trek.

And The Wild Wild West did shows with people travelling through time ("The Night of the Lord of Limbo"), aging rapidly ("The Night of the Man-Eating House"*) and moving faster than the eye can see ("The Night of the Burning Diamond") before Star Trek did. Not to mention the involvement of Fred Freiberger and Michael Dunn (but not Joseph Mullendore despite Jeff Bond's book on Star Trek music... Fred Steiner's the only person to have scored both shows and he only did "The Night of the Undead" for Jim and Artie).

*Although in the case of the rapid aging thing it was more important to "The Night of the Sedgewick Curse," which I admit did come after "The Deadly Years."

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 24, 2012 - 12:53 AM   
 By:   (Member)   (Member)

What about impulsive Kowalski and Tchekov?

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 24, 2012 - 3:15 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

The only thing that is similar is the military, naval format. Otherwise, they are totally different shows and characters.

I know what he means. Both series were made roughly at the same time, and did have several superficial similarities.


Superficial similarities are not the same thing as ""Voyage to the Bottom of the Star" or "Sea Trek": all the same."


geez, dude, chill out. I never said they were the same.
If you were correct and only the "Naval" premise was the similarity, then "McHales Navy" would also count as being like TREK and it obviously isnt. So give the OP some credit that there's more than just a "Naval" premise between the two series.

 
 Posted:   Sep 24, 2012 - 3:31 AM   
 By:   ZapBrannigan   (Member)

But the similarities in form are coincidental and they don't extend to the substance of the two shows. There is not a particle of evidence that any of STAR TREK's creators ever even saw VOYAGE TO THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA.

STAR TREK got its main inspirations from FORBIDDEN PLANET and Forester's Hornblower novels.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 24, 2012 - 5:28 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

But the similarities in form are coincidental and they don't extend to the substance of the two shows. There is not a particle of evidence that any of STAR TREK's creators ever even saw VOYAGE TO THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA.

STAR TREK got its main inspirations from FORBIDDEN PLANET and Forester's Hornblower novels.


I'm not agreeing with the OP if he's saying the series' were virtually identical, or one was based on the other. But there are alot of similarities. You can call them coincidences, whatever.

I never gave it much thought, but I can imagine there was some crossbreeding. Surely people contributing to each series as they were being made during those years were aware of the other series. A writer picks up an idea from talking with someone who saw an episode from the other series, etc. FORBIDDEN PLANET and Hornblower may have inspired TREK but surely were not the sole influences as the series was made.

 
 Posted:   Sep 24, 2012 - 5:29 AM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

geez, dude, chill out. I never said they were the same.


They can't "chill out." Despite their love for this "Star Trek", many of its fans have yet to embrace Total Logic and therefore fall prey to emotion. It is to be expected, for they are only human.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 24, 2012 - 6:19 AM   
 By:   (Member)   (Member)

geez, dude, chill out. I never said they were the same.


They can't "chill out." Despite their love for this "Star Trek", many of its fans have yet to embrace Total Logic and therefore fall prey to emotion. It is to be expected, for they are only human.



Any mistakes can't be tolerated, Mr. Phelps, your agonizer, please. wink

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 24, 2012 - 9:48 AM   
 By:   FunnyML   (Member)

I know, Star Trek and Soundtrack fans/collectors are a picky, pushy, impatient form of obsessive-compulsive life. wink

Yes sir, and I'm proud of it!

 
 Posted:   Sep 24, 2012 - 10:17 AM   
 By:   OneBuckFilms   (Member)

I know, Star Trek and Soundtrack fans/collectors are a picky, pushy, impatient form of obsessive-compulsive life. wink

Yes sir, and I'm proud of it!


+1

cool

 
 Posted:   Sep 24, 2012 - 10:53 AM   
 By:   Sigerson Holmes   (Member)



Geez, dude, chill out.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 24, 2012 - 2:25 PM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

Admit it, Sig, ever since the TREK BOX was announced, you've been emotionally compromised.

 
 Posted:   Sep 24, 2012 - 3:06 PM   
 By:   Other Tallguy   (Member)

Geez, dude, chill out.

His answer lies elsewhere.

 
 Posted:   Sep 24, 2012 - 3:14 PM   
 By:   Sigerson Holmes   (Member)

Admit it, Sig, ever since the TREK BOX was announced, you've been emotionally compromised.




Guilty.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 24, 2012 - 4:04 PM   
 By:   Nicholas_DW   (Member)

Irwin Allen knew every trick in the book.

Except how to tell a story...

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 24, 2012 - 5:25 PM   
 By:   kc-technerd   (Member)

Who has watched the black and white pilot of "Star Trek"?
Was it better?



I'm not sure there's any reason to watch it in black and white.

It was only released that way because the color negative had not yet been located in the Paramount vaults. The footage alternates between a scratchy black and white workprint and the color film used in the two-part "Menagerie" episode. It's just a novelty now, I guess. On my DVD set it includes introductory remarks by Roddenberry, but that's pretty much the only reason to watch it, as far as I know.


The one advantage I would consider in watching Roddenberry's B&W work print in it's entirety (as I understand it was shown at the old Star Trek conventions in the 1970s) is to hear the entire soundtrack with Malachi Throne's unaltered voice as the Keeper. I would certainly like to view a full color version edited and with soundtrack duplicating the experience of being a Paramount executive at the screening 1965. Although I can't find that Paramount or CBS has ever offered an explanation, speculation has been that the neither the complete soundtrack nor the complete dialog stem exist for the entire 1965 cut outside of the B&W work print (on which the soundtrack is in poor quality). The latest attempts at the episode utilize as much soundtrack as is available from "The Menagerie" combined with audio from the B&W work print with Throne's voice altered in an attempt to match "The Menagerie" material. I also haven't found a color version that is a 100% accurate cut to the original 1965 color version. The Blu-ray version, while fixing other material, has strangely sucked the color out of the opening shots of the Enterprise during the main titles (missing the chroma portion of the video). Color prints or negatives of the original end titles appear to be completely lost, as every version I've seen uses the end title from the B&W work print, colorized on the full-color versions.

 
 Posted:   Sep 24, 2012 - 7:40 PM   
 By:   Scott M (Oldsmith)   (Member)

geez, dude, chill out. I never said they were the same.

I am chill, sport. I didn't once use an exclamation point. And I never said YOU said they were the same.

So give the OP some credit that there's more than just a "Naval" premise between the two series.

Is he your brother or something? I'm only responding to his exact wording. I never said there weren't similarities. I was responding to the comment that one borrowed from the other and that they were "all the same." None of these comments were ones you made, so relax.

Why is it people think a detailed reply means "upset?" If I were anything but "chill" you'd know it. I don't lose my temper on message boards and the innernets.

 
 Posted:   Sep 24, 2012 - 7:43 PM   
 By:   Scott M (Oldsmith)   (Member)

It's only useful if you read it.

We were talking about some submarine show, how it's nothing like Star Trek.

As you were, men.


Ah yes, the shared use of actors... "FLASH! Man from Uncle and The Outer Limits now considered The Same Show!"

You kids...

 
 Posted:   Sep 24, 2012 - 7:45 PM   
 By:   Scott M (Oldsmith)   (Member)

But the similarities in form are coincidental and they don't extend to the substance of the two shows. There is not a particle of evidence that any of STAR TREK's creators ever even saw VOYAGE TO THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA.

STAR TREK got its main inspirations from FORBIDDEN PLANET and Forester's Hornblower novels.


Voice o'reason at last! :-) THANK you Zap.

 
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