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This is a comments thread about FSM CD: Outland
 
 Posted:   Jun 5, 2010 - 2:23 PM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)

This thread has gotten out of land wink

Seriously, ishnay on the germanay not funnay, and get back ontopic-ay?

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 5, 2010 - 2:24 PM   
 By:   ahem   (Member)

Indeed -- INTROVISION was then, a major new component in the movie making process -- before all the CGI took center stage. I met the dude your speaking of -- but memory is totally failing me at the moment! (Ah, wait a sec -- John Eppolito!) Sorry about the double post kids!

I believe they also used the Introvision process on The Fugitive for the shot where Harrison Ford jumps off the bus just before the train crashes into it - the only effects shot in the film if I recall.


Fantastic video, Scott! Thank you for that.

The Introvision in Outland is amazing, as it is in most of the films it was featured in, particularly Darkman. I think it seemed to have it's limitations as far as daytime exteriors were concerned (remember the train scene from Stand By Me?), but still a nice technique that gave unique results, free of matte lines.

Outland overall I think is a visual stunner. Roy Field supervised the opticals.

 
 Posted:   Jun 5, 2010 - 2:25 PM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)

Is this Introvision technique used for the exterior shots outside the station?

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 5, 2010 - 2:27 PM   
 By:   Doctor Plesman   (Member)

Indeed -- INTROVISION was then, a major new component in the movie making process -- before all the CGI took center stage. I met the dude your speaking of -- but memory is totally failing me at the moment! (Ah, wait a sec -- John Eppolito!) Sorry about the double post kids!

I believe they also used the Introvision process on The Fugitive for the shot where Harrison Ford jumps off the bus just before the train crashes into it - the only effects shot in the film if I recall.


Fantastic video, Scott! Thank you for that.

The Introvision in Outland is amazing, as it is in most of the films it was featured in, particularly Darkman. I think it seemed to have it's limitations as far as daytime exteriors were concerned (remember the train scene from Stand By Me?), but still a nice technique that gave unique results, free of matte lines.

Outland overall I think is a visual stunner. Roy Field supervised the opticals.


Yes, thanks for the Introvision clip. Very interesting...

And returning to the topic of OUTLAND is much appreciated!

 
 Posted:   Jun 5, 2010 - 2:40 PM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

Is this Introvision technique used for the exterior shots outside the station?

That's a firm. I believe that, being in relative infancy, the introvision technique as used on Outland may have used static transparencies of the environments. It was the actors who moved in the 'live' area of the frame. The process was very similar in concept to the 'hanging miniature' or 'glass painting' methods of ensuring that 'lineup' occurred while looking through the camera lens. Because everything took place inside the camera, standard optical effects that would ordinarily use Linwood Dunn optical printers could be side stepped. One of the problems with optical printers is in lining up the shots. When the film elements don't overlap exactly you get those tell tale matte lines. Introvision was used very effectively on Outland.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 5, 2010 - 2:42 PM   
 By:   ahem   (Member)

Is this Introvision technique used for the exterior shots outside the station?

I can't really comment as I haven't seen the film in about ten years, but as the video informs, Introvision was for compositing human figures into model sets/other backdrops using front projection, specifically so the actors would walk behind parts of the backgrounds.

The shots of the spaceships from Outland were created by the film's British model unit in England, apparently supervised by Hyams and Stephen Goldblatt. All of the effects I think are stunning.

 
 Posted:   Jun 5, 2010 - 2:53 PM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)



That's a firm. I believe that, being in relative infancy, the introvision technique as used on Outland may have used static transparencies of the environments. It was the actors who moved in the 'live' area of the frame. The process was very similar in concept to the 'hanging miniature' or 'glass painting' methods of ensuring that 'lineup' occurred while looking through the camera lens. Because everything took place inside the camera, standard optical effects that would ordinarily use Linwood Dunn optical printers could be side stepped. One of the problems with optical printers is in lining up the shots. When the film elements don't overlap exactly you get those tell tale matte lines. Introvision was used very effectively on Outland.


I'll check for this when I re-watch the movie. It really holds up well, but I wish they'd release a proper dvd (or blu-ray) with some extra's.

 
 Posted:   Jun 5, 2010 - 2:55 PM   
 By:   LeHah   (Member)

All of the effects I think are stunning.

Though they're obviously dated, they still have that "more real than real" quality, like stop-motion does compared to CGI.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 5, 2010 - 2:55 PM   
 By:   ahem   (Member)

Is this Introvision technique used for the exterior shots outside the station?

That's a firm. I believe that, being in relative infancy, the introvision technique as used on Outland may have used static transparencies of the environments.


An Introvision matte artist is credited on the film, so I am guessing those could have been used as well as the transparancies for the backgrounds (I seem to recall there were some HUGE shots in the film with loads of scope).

 
 Posted:   Jun 5, 2010 - 3:12 PM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

An Introvision matte artist is credited on the film, so I am guessing those could have been used as well as the transparancies for the backgrounds (I seem to recall there were some HUGE shots in the film with loads of scope).

Anywhere you see a shot in which the actors appear to be far away is your introvision cue. The shots are locked down. There is no overall camera movement because there can't be.

Also remember, that Connery's Marshal is on his own, out there, with no one to help him. Those shots emphasise in the dramatic sense just how alone he is, and he's got to control his fear by staying in focus. I think this aspect of Outland is the best thing about it. The marshal's isolation while being surrounded by people comes over beautifully in the film. Goldsmith's brooding score captures this beautifully too. There's a couple of moments in there with a clock ticking away and the music for those brief moments is golden.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 5, 2010 - 3:29 PM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Fabulous...glad Hyams was aware and involved, to get his input at the least. The movie itself is hit or miss, as always with Hyams, excellent atmosphere and action with smart ass dialogue. Looking forward to getting this one - thanks so much for the wonderful work . Hyams almost always had great scores for his films, all the way up to The Relic and End Of Days ( underrated score from Debney)

Agreed. It's not a great film by any measure, but it's a decent potboiler with some nifty sets and atmosphere.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 5, 2010 - 3:29 PM   
 By:   ahem   (Member)

No camera movement for Introvision?

 
 Posted:   Jun 5, 2010 - 3:38 PM   
 By:   Josh "Swashbuckler" Gizelt   (Member)

No camera movement for Introvision?

No, anything shot with the process had to be carefully lined up. I suppose motion-control could have been used at the time for some simple movement, but it really wouldn't have been all that stable and certainly not worth the effort.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 5, 2010 - 3:48 PM   
 By:   ahem   (Member)

I seem to recall (correct me if I am wrong) several memorable Introvision shots with a moving camera in Darkman, Army of Darkness and even the climax of If Looks Could Kill. Perhaps that was just clever editing in some instances.

 
 Posted:   Jun 5, 2010 - 3:59 PM   
 By:   Josh "Swashbuckler" Gizelt   (Member)

I seem to recall (correct me if I am wrong) several memorable Introvision shots with a moving camera in Darkman, Army of Darkness and even the climax of If Looks Could Kill. Perhaps that was just clever editing in some instances.

Hm. Now that you mention it, I seem to recall something similar in Darkman. You may be right. It is also possible that the technique was perfected during the interim.

 
 Posted:   Jun 5, 2010 - 4:06 PM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

When you peep through a keyhole, you have to keep rock steady, otherwise what you see jiggles all over the place and sometimes you see through the viewhole and sometimes you don't. An introvision setup is loosely similar to peeping though the keyhole. It's not a terribly good analogy, I know, but the plain simple fact of the matter is that introvision took a simple idea and enabled effective visuals to be produced. The only proviso is that no panning, tracking or parallax effects could be introduced while filming any particular shot. When we see visual effects today, we get nothing but movement. We get giddy seeing modern visual effects because computers are involved and the progression of technology to date makes it all possible. CGI has rendered introvision more or less obsolete.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 5, 2010 - 4:17 PM   
 By:   Michael Arlidge   (Member)

I suppose other people have noticed that the link to the "Outland" product page under the 'News' heading on the SAE home page is screwed? Not that SAE aren't aware of it, because I emailed them almost 24 hours ago. It is the weekend though, so perhaps they have a good excuse.

 
 Posted:   Jun 5, 2010 - 6:43 PM   
 By:   Mark Langdon   (Member)

"I'd like the complete score for Outland. I'd like it soon, or I might just kick your nasty ass all over this room. That's a marshal joke."

I'd just like to add my praise and thanks to Lukas Kendall, Mike Matessino and all concerned for this wonderful release! As always, much appreciated!

 
 Posted:   Jun 5, 2010 - 7:23 PM   
 By:   Mick Moreau   (Member)

Another fantastic and long-awaited expanded release for my Goldsmith collection. I've always loved his work particularly from this time period.

Thanks to those that made it happen!

Mick

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 5, 2010 - 10:37 PM   
 By:   filmusicnow   (Member)

It never ends! Sold!

I'll say one thing about Peter Hyams. More definitive soundtracks have been produced for his films (by FSM, VS, and Intrada) than for Lucas and Spielberg!


Didn't I read somewhere that Hyams hated the score for "Outland"?

 
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