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This is a comments thread about FSM CD: Ben-Hur
 
 Posted:   Feb 17, 2012 - 4:30 AM   
 By:   TM2-Megatron   (Member)

THEY asking 15$ at SAE

Yes, although that doesn't include the optional registered shipping fee options, without which your order wouldn't be guaranteed if it got lost. For instance, in the case of Canada (even though I don't personally believe Canada is a trouble country at all, and Canada Post works very well with USPS in my experience), even though the quoted shipping price for the Ben-Hur set is less than a dollar more than the US shipping fee, you're later asked to tack on either $15 or $25 in order to guarantee the package.

Intrada is much more reasonable, IMO; and that's where I've ordered this particular set from. When I want to order something from SAE, I usually wait to do so for very large orders over which the extremely high shipping fee can be distributed so as not to seem like that much. But now that I've caught up on most of the older specialty label releases I'm interested in (those still available, anyway), which involved several large SAE orders over the past 6 months, I tend to just order directly from Intrada or LLL these days.

 
 Posted:   Feb 17, 2012 - 6:18 AM   
 By:   Frank DeWald   (Member)

First of all, kudos again to Mr. Frank DeWald for the exemplary liner notes for the new "Ben Hur" release. I read them last night with great interest, but they prompt a question:

1. There were a number of "Ben-Hur" cues which did not get recorded. Does the sheet
music for these exist and, if they were all recorded, what would the duration be
in minutes? (approximately) This would be quite an interesting recording project for
Tadlow , Prometheus, or Tribute, coupled with another Rozsa score!

We who love Rozsa anticipate the "Ben-Hur" release with great excitement!! I hope Mr.
DeWald will write the liner notes for the upcoming "Quo Vadis" from Tadlow!


Good question, and it made me curious myself, so I checked. The Library of Congress score includes the following cues which were not recorded: "His Father's Business (Versions A and B),"" Behind Grills," "Silent Farewell," "Judea [first version]," "The Dungeon," "Lepers - New," "Calvary" and "Afterthoughts." They add up to about 7 1/2 minutes of music. For more information, readers should check out Ralph Erkelenz's extensive article published in PRO MUSICA SANA (the first installment of which is posted on the Rozsa Society website - and we hope to have the entire essay up eventually). Synthesized mock-ups of some of these cues have been posted by William McCrum on the Rozsa Forum.

The answer to your second question (even though it wasn't really a question) is yes. And thank you.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 17, 2012 - 6:21 AM   
 By:   TerraEpon   (Member)


But I want to know why the total duration of Disc One & Two is shorter than the 2CD set released by Rhino in 1996?

Is it really complete?


Look at the way it's all ordered -- I imagine some of the Rhino tracks are on discs 3-5, and possibly some tracks that weren't there even replace those. I'm sure someone will take the time to do an analysis....

And yeah, 2000 copies at $60 for a single score that's had a really good previous release, I'm sure this won't sell out for at least a few months (which from what I gather is Lukas's hope -- that everyone gets one who wants one without having to scramble). Hell, has there been ANY FSM that's really sold out (NB: Superman did not, as the second pressing happened) overly fast? I guess one of the Western box things maybe...

 
 Posted:   Feb 17, 2012 - 7:57 AM   
 By:   Stephen Woolston   (Member)

I believe the Rhino contains *some* alternate versions just not many.

Marilee Bradford told me she wanted to do three CDs, but she lost that battle and had to stop at two, so she probably crammed as much as she could on the two CDs.

By contrast, the FSM probably kept discs 1 and 2 to just what's in the film, and put all the alternates elsewhere.

Another thing Marilee told me is that in the Rhino edition, she wanted the 'white space' between tracks to be the ambient sound of the studio rather than pure digital silence, as she felt that would be more pleasing to the ear.

I don't know if FSM went for a similar decision or not.

Cheers

 
 Posted:   Feb 17, 2012 - 8:06 AM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

I believe the Rhino contains *some* alternate versions.....

It tends to be Rhino's philosophy to use longer, more complete cues where they exist, rather than shorter cues in the OST.

And some cues were inserted in two forms such as 'Prince of Peace', which is two versions back to back, two versions that don't correspond to cue points. Other tracks like 'Search' are again two versions back to back, and of course there's an 'appendix' cue, a choral version of 'Star of Bethlehem'. FSM has placed these on the alternatives discs.

FSM is more complete by far, no disrespect to Ms Bradford intended, she had limitations placed upon her and had to make choices.

 
 Posted:   Feb 17, 2012 - 8:10 AM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

Synthesized mock-ups of some of these cues have been posted by William McCrum on the Rozsa Forum.




You're very kind to draw attention to my grim efforts, Frank, but Gaetano Malaponti and Joe Brausam and yourself also did mock-ups on that thread.

Gaetano has a mock-up page in preparation where he uses decent synths for the reconstructions.

I'm stunned as to how you found all the stuff for this release!

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 17, 2012 - 8:31 AM   
 By:   clarkkent41   (Member)

In regards to the discussion regarding shipping costs for this set- I highly recommend Moviemusic.com. As long as you buy three new or 3 used CDs (but not a combo of both) they offer $1.00 shipping to any domestic U.S. address. That means as long as you buy 2 other new CDs shipping for all three would still be just $1.00- even if you choose to buy 3 Ben-Hur sets!

This is just an amazing deal- especially when you are buying CDs from more than one label. They even have a handy "Low Price New CDs" section on their site which lists new CDs under $10.00 in case you need one or two more to get the $1.00 shipping. (Understandably, they cannot offer the same deal for international orders but I would check with them anyway as my guess is that they still are very reasonable in that area as well).

Of course, the cheap shipping would not mean much if the company was unreliable but I can say from personal experience that Peter Kelly who runs the site is outstanding in terms of customer service!

BTW- I am not affiliated with them in any way- just a very satisfied customer looking to alert his fellow collectors who may not be aware of this great company! I placed my order with them for Ben-Hur last night and looking forward to getting it!

And last but not least- thanks to Lukas for making Ben-Hur happen!

 
 Posted:   Feb 17, 2012 - 9:03 AM   
 By:   orbital   (Member)

(...) (Understandably, they cannot offer the same deal for international orders but I would check with them anyway as my guess is that they still are very reasonable in that area as well).

Indeed they are. Shipping for this set to Europe is $12,99.

Of course, the cheap shipping would not mean much if the company was unreliable but I can say from personal experience that Peter Kelly who runs the site is outstanding in terms of customer service!

BTW- I am not affiliated with them in any way- just a very satisfied customer looking to alert his fellow collectors who may not be aware of this great company! I placed my order with them for Ben-Hur last night and looking forward to getting it!

And last but not least- thanks to Lukas for making Ben-Hur happen!


Seconded in every way!

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 17, 2012 - 10:15 AM   
 By:   TerraEpon   (Member)

I almost always order from Moviemusic.com. I've probably saved $80 over the past couple of years of shipping costs rather than ordering eighteen seconds after something is announced like everyone else does. Never had a problem. If there's something wrong with the order, such as they somehow run out or there will be a long delay, they email you and ask what you want to do.

Hopefully the 2000 run for this is right, as I don't have a third item at the moment...

 
 Posted:   Feb 17, 2012 - 10:38 AM   
 By:   Basil Wrathbone   (Member)

In all the years I bought LPs and CDs from actual stores, I don't ever recall being charged for the shipping of something they ordered for me from the labels and that I then collected from their store.

 
 Posted:   Feb 17, 2012 - 10:39 AM   
 By:   mxmx   (Member)

I believe the Rhino contains *some* alternate versions.....

It tends to be Rhino's philosophy to use longer, more complete cues where they exist, rather than shorter cues in the OST.

And some cues were inserted in two forms such as 'Prince of Peace', which is two versions back to back, two versions that don't correspond to cue points. Other tracks like 'Search' are again two versions back to back, and of course there's an 'appendix' cue, a choral version of 'Star of Bethlehem'. FSM has placed these on the alternatives discs.

FSM is more complete by far, no disrespect to Ms Bradford intended, she had limitations placed upon her and had to make choices.


Marilee absolutely blazed the trail on this title and the 2-disc Rhino release with its beautiful book and presentation. It was produced when the CD soundtrack market peaked in the brick-and-mortar world and some tough decisions were made in order to accommodate 2-discs. It's a trade-off: the FSM release afforded more freedom to include everything but that could only happen in a world with only 2000 potential buyers for this specialty item.

Mike

 
 Posted:   Feb 17, 2012 - 10:41 AM   
 By:   goldsmith-rulez   (Member)

A superflous release. All relevant bases covered already.

 
 Posted:   Feb 17, 2012 - 10:59 AM   
 By:   George Komar   (Member)

Another thing Marilee told me is that in the Rhino edition, she wanted the 'white space' between tracks to be the ambient sound of the studio rather than pure digital silence, as she felt that would be more pleasing to the ear.

Her innovative decision to do this was dead on. It turned the release into a true concert listening experience.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 17, 2012 - 10:59 AM   
 By:   TJ   (Member)

I almost always order from Moviemusic.com. I've probably saved $80 over the past couple of years of shipping costs rather than ordering eighteen seconds after something is announced like everyone else does. Never had a problem. If there's something wrong with the order, such as they somehow run out or there will be a long delay, they email you and ask what you want to do.

Hopefully the 2000 run for this is right, as I don't have a third item at the moment...


How ridiculous, even without the $1 shiping promotion, their regular shipping costs are competitive.

If you want the title, order it, I would not advise waiting around waiting aroudn just because you might save five bucks in shipping when something else exciting eventually gets released.

 
 Posted:   Feb 17, 2012 - 11:53 AM   
 By:   orbital   (Member)

A superflous release. All relevant bases covered already.

 
 Posted:   Feb 17, 2012 - 12:08 PM   
 By:   Basil Wrathbone   (Member)

Another thing Marilee told me is that in the Rhino edition, she wanted the 'white space' between tracks to be the ambient sound of the studio rather than pure digital silence, as she felt that would be more pleasing to the ear.

Her innovative decision to do this was dead on. It turned the release into a true concert listening experience.


Yes, but the benefit was diluted by putting the (sometimes repetitive) alternates within the main program, which meant the welcome illusion of background continuity would be broken anyway due to having to program them out.

 
 Posted:   Feb 17, 2012 - 12:15 PM   
 By:   LeHah   (Member)

A superflous release. All relevant bases covered already.



Well, this gets my vote for post of the year.

 
 Posted:   Feb 17, 2012 - 12:47 PM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

A superflous release. All relevant bases covered already.


I imagine we're going to wait in vain for an explanation of this choice insight.

I love Jerry Goldsmith.

But he doesn't rule.

To play your own game.

 
 Posted:   Feb 17, 2012 - 1:41 PM   
 By:   George Komar   (Member)

Another thing Marilee told me is that in the Rhino edition, she wanted the 'white space' between tracks to be the ambient sound of the studio rather than pure digital silence, as she felt that would be more pleasing to the ear.

Her innovative decision to do this was dead on. It turned the release into a true concert listening experience.


Yes, but the benefit was diluted by putting the (sometimes repetitive) alternates within the main program, which meant the welcome illusion of background continuity would be broken anyway due to having to program them out.


Agreed, but I wanted to accentuate the positive first. The inter-track studio ambience was and is a novel idea.

The fact that you could not program out the alternates on the Rhino set makes the FSM release so very welcome.

 
 Posted:   Feb 17, 2012 - 1:52 PM   
 By:   lexedo   (Member)

I dropped all of the web page liner notes into 1 pdf with full navigation, etc. If anyone would like it, drop me a note on aol with the same fsm id.

 
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